Thrips to black spots to leaf tips curling up in week 4 flower

[Turkish980]

Hi all. First time poster here. Hoping for some help.

First time grower and hoping someone can help me out in diagnosing this. I am just starting week 4 in flower and in a 3x3 tent. Using 2 sp150 leds, and a good inline fan. My Temps range from 73-79 during the day with 39-43% humidity and at night it's around 69 and 45% humidity. I started noticing thrips and began to worry when I saw my buds beginning to brown a bit at the tips. I treated a few times and most seem to go away altho I still see some.

I then began noticing some black spots on the underside of my leaves but not on top and they do not rub off and are not raised up.

My leaves seemed consistent with thrip damage but also around the same time it seemed I went from watering a gal a say to every 2 or 3 days. Now it's barely using up any water, nothing like it was. I'm wondering if I'm at the same time experiencing nutrient lockout?

I'm using a nutrient regimen as well. NFTG. I do a feed, feed, tea, feed, feed, flush regimen. I check the ph and ppm with blue lab pens. I have cheaper backup pens as well. It's normally in the proper 6.3-6.8 range and running around 1320ppms (ppm700) per feed currently.

I use fox farm ocean forest soil and it's in one of those cloth? 5gal sacks.

So besides the leaves beginning to drop farther down and brown and the tips becoming crisp and dropping off, more so at the bottom first, today I check and see new symptoms. My very top branches and leaves. Many of the top leaves are all curling up now. Not the sides, just the tips. Plus some of the leaves are also looking a bit sad up top now. I don't want whatever this is to ruin the harvest or stunt it. Is it possible this is nutrient lockout as well? Maybe I have a mix of issues I'm not sure.

I use reverse osmosis water with the nutrient mix I use if that matters. Could this somehow be a calmag deficincey as well seeing as I'm using RO water? Even tho my nutrient line is organic and calcium based? Either way, I believe I will be switching over to a tap water/ro mixture. That leaves the water itself at a 7.5ph with 140ppms. Pictures below. Thank you all advance. I'd hate to see my first crop get ruined at this stage.

I should add that I spent a few days cutting the bad leaves and looking at them thru a handheld 60-120x magnifier and all I could find as far as bugs were thrips.

I'll attach all the pics i can if it's helpful. One thing that was brought to my attention was someone thought it was fungus which I hope not. It's kept in what I thought cool, non humid temps. But they suggests copper sulfate boredeaux mixture. The problem is tho, I'm 4 weeks into the flowering stage.

Sorry for all the pics and info. I wanted to be as thorough as possible. Adding some more of the leaves and bud. And then I'll add one of the plant overall as I see that's helpful to people.

 

[Turkish980]

The black dots appear to be spreading across the same leaf just a few hours later.

 

[needshelpguy]

Bump have seen on one of my plants a couple grows back never found a solution and didnt seem to effect growth too much

 

[chemistry]

Looks fungal, maybe transferred from the thrip bites.

 

[Turkish980]

That's what I thought at first. Zooming in far on the black spots on the one leaf almost look like it's just missing plant matter from the thrips.
Not positive though. But at the same time, at all the spots where it's curling up at the tips, they can have those black spots as well. Then I hear the curling up can be ph or nutrient issues as well. Tough to diagnose it seems.

I'm attaching the same black spotted leaf pic, but just zoomed in. It does look like spots that were eaten Vs fungal? I almost hope.

 

[Turkish980]

I'm starting to think it's toxicity build up or some kind of nutrient lockout. Along with a thrip issue. But I'm hoping I can turn it around if that is it. The leaves are curling up and looking worse, however, the buds appear to be getting better and less brown. I'm attaching a pic of a small beetle or something I've been seeing on my other younger plant in the vegetative stage. Does anyone know what this is?

 

[Turkish980]

Looks like some kind of nutrient lockout, toxicity issue? After my last flush, today's feeding went much better and the water did not sit up top forever. Here's hoping to a turnaround

 

[Turkish980]

I've been flushing. Leaves continue to turn, and new ones as well. This is what some leaves are progressing to. If it makes it more distinct as a certain issue, not sure. FYI, same leaf as the above pic.

Nute burn?

 

[Turkish980]

Maybe I have an excess of one nutrient and and defiency of another? Light green leaves with necrotic spots, twisted and malformed leaves is a copper deficiency. Maybe I have that?

 

[Beachwalker]

Please explain what this means

"..running around 1320ppms (ppm700) per feed currently"


and please show top and bottom of the same leaf with the black spots not just the bottom

 

[Turkish980]

When mixing nutrients you measure the ppm of the mix along with the ph. There are a few measuring types of ppm. 500 and 700. I measure in the 700 range as that's what my nutrient line goes by. I had in the earlier pics. At that point the leaf looked fine on top. Less worried ahout the black spots now and more worried about my latest pics I posted above. I'm thinking it's nute burn. But after a couple of flushes, shouldn't the nute burn spread be stopping?

 

[Turkish980]

Please explain what this means

"..running around 1320ppms (ppm700) per feed currently"


and please show top and bottom of the same leaf with the black spots not just the bottom

 

[Beachwalker]

When mixing nutrients you measure the ppm of the mix along with the ph. There are a few measuring types of ppm. 500 and 700. I measure in the 700 range as that's what my nutrient line goes by. I had in the earlier pics. At that point the leaf looked fine on top. Less worried ahout the black spots now and more worried about my latest pics I posted above. I'm thinking it's nute burn. But after a couple of flushes, shouldn't the nute burn spread be stopping?

Thank you for your explanation. Yes you're absolutely right, there burning up!

but you've got a few things going on so I'm trying to get through your post and see what you got up

in the meantime if those were my plants I would be flushing the piss out of them

I wouldn't put any newt in and I would never feed by a newt company's program to begin with

I'm trying to figure out how are you growing, I'm going to go back and reread later this afternoon so I'll be back to talk with you about this

I want to know about the black spots what the black spots look like on the top of the leaf too, not just underneath, that too will help

please look up 'slurry test' and properly preform one as soon as possible and post your results;

right now I recommend heavy flushing and I need you to tell how often you're feeding nutrients and how strong you feed at

also my PPM metre reads on the 500 scale, not the 700, how do you know yours is not reading on the 500 scale as well? What type of metre are you using

 

[Beachwalker]

When mixing nutrients you measure the ppm of the mix along with the ph. There are a few measuring types of ppm. 500 and 700. I measure in the 700 range as that's what my nutrient line goes by. I had in the earlier pics. At that point the leaf looked fine on top. Less worried ahout the black spots now and more worried about my latest pics I posted above. I'm thinking it's nute burn. But after a couple of flushes, shouldn't the nute burn spread be stopping?

Thank you for your explanation. Yes you're absolutely right, there burning up!

but you've got a few things going on so I'm trying to get through your post and see what you got up

in the meantime if those were my plants I would be flushing the piss out of them

I wouldn't put any newt in and I would never feed by a newt company's program to begin with

I'm trying to figure out how are you growing, I'm going to go back and reread later this afternoon so I'll be back to talk with you about this

I want to know about the black spots what the black spots look like on the top of the leaf too, not just underneath, that too will help

please look up 'slurry test' and properly preform one as soon as possible and post your results;

right now I recommend heavy flushing and I need you to tell how often you're feeding nutrients and how strong you feed at

also my PPM metre reads on the 500 scale, not the 700, how do you know yours is not reading on the 500 scale as well? What type of metre are you

 

[Turkish980]

Thank you for your explanation. Yes you're absolutely right, there burning up!

but you've got a few things going on so I'm trying to get through your post and see what you got up

in the meantime if those were my plants I would be flushing the piss out of them

I wouldn't put any newt in and I would never feed by a newt company's program to begin with

I'm trying to figure out how are you growing, I'm going to go back and reread later this afternoon so I'll be back to talk with you about this

I want to know about the black spots what the black spots look like on the top of the leaf too, not just underneath, that too will help

please look up 'slurry test' and properly preform one as soon as possible and post your results;

right now I recommend heavy flushing and I need you to tell how often you're feeding nutrients and how strong you feed at

also my PPM metre reads on the 500 scale, not the 700, how do you know yours is not reading on the 500 scale as well? What type of metre are you using

I'm using blue labs Ph pen and ppm pens. I also have a few cheaper versions as well. I know it's in the 700 range because it gives me options to do 500, 700, or EC measurements. I use Nectar for the gods nutrient line which is calcium based. I was doing the recommended amounts during the set stages. I'm in week 4 flower. I have flushed last few times. I started using reverse osmosis water and then worrying I had a calmag deficinecy, I switched to tap water that's ran thru a brita to remove chlorine. I keep the ph within 6.3-6.8 per the nutrient line.

I usually was doing a slurry pre feed and it would come back 7. Something ph and usually 140 ppms so I assumed that it was using the nutes. But after one recent feed, it was around 1200ppms (that's measuring the nute mixture before feeding) and a few hrs later I did a slurry, but the ppms were only coming back around 200-300. I expected much higher. It's currently in a 5gallon fabric pot.

To answer your nute question. When healthy, it was requiring a gallon a day roughly. I was doing a feed, feed, tea, feed, feed, flush schedule. Making sure it was dry before the next feeding. I kept the feeds between 6.3-6.8ph and usually the ppms(700) were coming back between 1100-1300ppms for the nute mixture.

For the heavy flushing... Is that straight water? Only when it's dry again or more often? I've been flushing with a little bit of herc harvest, bone meal, and some slf100

 

[Beachwalker]

7 pH and 140 PPM are not correct results for slurry test, so I feel something is wrong there

in the meantime if those are my plants burning up in those above pictures let me tell you the steps I would do right now

I would flush at pH 6.5 each plant with three times the pot volume (eg. 3gal pot = 9gal h2o) which is the first or second time I've ever recommended this heavy of a flush, but they need it right now to stop the burning of the plant

If you've already flushed the plants please say when and how much water you used and what was the result of the runoff, pH & ppm?

I would look up 'slurry test' and perform one on my soil immediately and post the results

Also above you mentioned slurry test but do you have it confused with runoff test I'm wondering??

I have used Fox Farm ocean Forest over 4 years now so with the requested info I believe I can help you; I will be back later today

 

[chemistry]

How hot is it in your flower room, looks a bit like temps are to hot, makes plants drink more than they need to and burn.

 

[Turkish980]

How hot is it in your flower room, looks a bit like temps are to hot, makes plants drink more than they need to and burn.

During the day it's between 76-81 degrees and 37-40% humidity and at nights it's usually 69-71 and 40-45% humidity. I have 2 Mars hydro sp150 leds and they are about 13-14 inches away from the tallest branch.

 

[Turkish980]

7 pH and 140 PPM are not correct results for slurry test, so I feel something is wrong there

in the meantime if those are my plants burning up in those above pictures let me tell you the steps I would do right now

I would flush at pH 6.5 each plant with three times the pot volume (eg. 3gal pot = 9gal h2o) which is the first or second time I've ever recommended this heavy of a flush, but they need it right now to stop the burning of the plant

If you've already flushed the plants please say when and how much water you used and what was the result of the runoff, pH & ppm?

I would look up 'slurry test' and perform one on my soil immediately and post the results

Also above you mentioned slurry test but do you have it confused with runoff test I'm wondering??

I have used Fox Farm ocean Forest over 4 years now so with the requested info I believe I can help you; I will be back later today

Thank you!!!


I have fox farm as well

Yes I think I have slurry and runoff confused. I've only done the slurry test taking soil from the top, mixing with same amount of water, etc. Not sure what a run off test is. I have an idea but not sure how you take that. Just grab and put into a cup and test as it runs out?

When I flushed last few times I only did a gallon of water. I strarted flushing as well a few weeks ago first because my water started sitting on top and my plant stopped taking up much water
After the flush that problem went away.

I last flushed yesterday with a gallon. I have zero runoff. I'm a newb so didn't know you flush with more. So to ph adjust, my water is normally 7-7.5ph, and to bring that down I have Herculean Harvest bone meal that brings the ph down. Otherwise I need to purchase some ph down. Never had an issue with ph tho doing mixes. Maybe more so just flushing because I'd need to add that herc harvest to lower it. I also have photosynthesis plus that I use as a tea.

My ppm with tap water is around 350ppm. Reverse osmosis water shows 0. If I mix the 2 together then it's around 140ppms.

 

[Beachwalker]

Thank you!!!


I have fox farm as well

Yes I think I have slurry and runoff confused. I've only done the slurry test taking soil from the top, mixing with same amount of water, etc. Not sure what a run off test is. I have an idea but not sure how you take that. Just grab and put into a cup and test as it runs out?

When I flushed last few times I only did a gallon of water. I strarted flushing as well a few weeks ago first because my water started sitting on top and my plant stopped taking up much water
After the flush that problem went away.

I last flushed yesterday with a gallon. I have zero runoff. I'm a newb so didn't know you flush with more. So to ph adjust, my water is normally 7-7.5ph, and to bring that down I have Herculean Harvest bone meal that brings the ph down. Otherwise I need to purchase some ph down. Never had an issue with ph tho doing mixes. Maybe more so just flushing because I'd need to add that herc harvest to lower it. I also have photosynthesis plus that I use as a tea.

My ppm with tap water is around 350ppm. Reverse osmosis water shows 0. If I mix the 2 together then it's around 140ppms.

Slurry test use 2 to 1 , water to soil, take it from halfway down or so, not the top stir very well, let it sit 15 minutes stir again and then take both readings

That's why I asked because I thought you had the slurry & the RO test mixed up

A slurry test is much more accurate picture of what's going on in your soil

I also think you might have your 500/700 scale mixed up? the person I just saw who may use the 700 scale (or at least he's helped me understand it before because I only use the 500 scale) is posting now, maybe he can help you, let me ask mr Michigan if he's available?! @MIMedGrower

I am pretty sure your soil pH is low & your newts are built up very high in that soil, and when you get a soil slurry test finished post results of both pH and PPM