Thriving to Struggling Overnight — Need Eyes on My Setup

[logical]

Below are some of the symptoms I've been experiencing, aside from the wilting of course.

 

[shooter64738]

I really feel like you had a salt build up around your roots causing a lock out. I think you're onto it and it'll get much better now.

Maybe a good rule is to do a flush if you switch from top-down or bottom-up feeding. Or atleast be aware it might happen.

We should probably wait and see the results first though. :)

 

[JIMKSI64]

I think your thinking is spot on
You have more than one type of deficiency showing and that points to pH or salt lock.
The damage will stay but the leaf will still produce I would keep them until they are done helping the grow or go necrotic. I expect once it's clear and fed it will be fine.
People wait so long sometimes that no advice will help.

 

[logical]

I really feel like you had a salt build up around your roots causing a lock out. I think you're onto it and it'll get much better now.

Maybe a good rule is to do a flush if you switch from top-down or bottom-up feeding. Or atleast be aware it might happen.

We should probably wait and see the results first though. :)

After this situation, I plan on flushing every 2-3 weeks moving forward whether they're showing symptoms or not. Or maybe I'll just stick em with the BlueLab Pulse to monitor from time to time and just flush when needed. You live and you learn. Let's hope for the best

 

[Captspaulding]

Your plants are pulling mag as well. Your lights output is set slightly too high.

 

[logical]

I think your thinking is spot on
You have more than one type of deficiency showing and that points to pH or salt lock.
The damage will stay but the leaf will still produce I would keep them until they are done helping the grow or go necrotic. I expect once it's clear and fed it will be fine.
People wait so long sometimes that no advice will help.

Unfortunately I already took off all of the fans that were showing symptoms, along with a few more. They needed some defoliation I thought. Below is what they looked like when I put them back under the light after the flush and defoliation. Further below are the other half that still have a hot root zone that will be addressed today.

I'm going to repeat the whole process over and then move to my flower tent and do the same.

 

[JIMKSI64]

My first grow I kept all the fan leaves I could as long as I could. This second grow the plant took a while to take off and never really built a fan leaf " base" of you will. This has not stopped the plant from stacking up some buds but prolly 2/3 the size of my photo run. You have as many fans as I had at a simular time in the grow for my Widows.
Hoping for a easy recovery.

 

[logical]

My first grow I kept all the fan leaves I could as long as I could. This second grow the plant took a while to take off and never really built a fan leaf " base" of you will. This has not stopped the plant from stacking up some buds but prolly 2/3 the size of my photo run. You have as many fans as I had at a simular time in the grow for my Widows.
Hoping for a easy recovery.

I read that the bigger the fan leaf gets, the less efficient it becomes, and that at a certain point it's better to clip them so that lower shoots can get the light that the bigger fan leaf was robbing them of. Made sense, but then again I read a lot of stuff.

 

[JIMKSI64]

I read that the bigger the fan leaf gets, the less efficient it becomes, and that at a certain point it's better to clip them so that lower shoots can get the light that the bigger fan leaf was robbing them of. Made sense, but then again I read a lot of stuff.

If you keep reading you will find a different opinion for sure. After reading so many journals and diaries I just look for patterns and work out answers based on who said what, did what, and fixed what with pictures.
On other forums I saw a lot of wreckage from people who conflated one grow method with another and advise the most stupid ass shit. Explaining a dryback to a coca grower or draining to waste an organic soil grow and checking EC.

Still the best hobby. Hey I got a cool pic of my last harvest. Never took this shit before. Inside a 1 inch slice of a top cola.

It looks just like the top down view of a bud. Just thought that was kool

 

[logical]

If you keep reading you will find a different opinion for sure. After reading so many journals and diaries I just look for patterns and work out answers based on who said what, did what, and fixed what with pictures.
On other forums I saw a lot of wreckage from people who conflated one grow method with another and advise the most stupid ass shit. Explaining a dryback to a coca grower or draining to waste an organic soil grow and checking EC.

Still the best hobby. Hey I got a cool pic of my last harvest. Never took this shit before. Inside a 1 inch slice of a top cola.
View attachment 2458886
It looks just like the top down view of a bud. Just thought that was kool

I actually ran into the same issue on a previous grow. I followed someone’s advice to let my medium dry back, and it ended up stunting my plants for weeks. Turns out, they didn’t realize I was growing in coco. I thought I was overwatering, but the plants were really just drying out. That whole situation just showed me how much it matters to really know what someone’s working with before giving or following advice. Now, I try to include all the details when I ask questions, and I like throwing in plenty of pics too. Like you said—it helps people actually see what was going on, what I did to fix it, and how things turned out.

I already plan on posting some good recovery pics today or tomorrow, whenever they look worthy enough to post.

Beautiful bud shot — is that the Widow you mentioned earlier? It’s looking really frosty.

 

[JIMKSI64]

I actually ran into the same issue on a previous grow. I followed someone’s advice to let my medium dry back, and it ended up stunting my plants for weeks. Turns out, they didn’t realize I was growing in coco. I thought I was overwatering, but the plants were really just drying out. That whole situation just showed me how much it matters to really know what someone’s working with before giving or following advice. Now, I try to include all the details when I ask questions, and I like throwing in plenty of pics too. Like you said—it helps people actually see what was going on, what I did to fix it, and how things turned out.

I already plan on posting some good recovery pics today or tomorrow, whenever they look worthy enough to post.

Beautiful bud shot — is that the Widow you mentioned earlier? It’s looking really frosty.

Yes it was the first failed grow and the second one in soil. I wanted to do hydro for the challenge but what it really came down to is the price of pot is so high ( hehe) that I just had to replace it with a hobby as a bonus. I have a fair bit in my setup but literally this grow of 4 autos should put me about even for most of the costs. And I still have everything including nutes for a round of 6 autos, now that I know how they grow.

 

[logical]

Yes it was the first failed grow and the second one in soil. I wanted to do hydro for the challenge but what it really came down to is the price of pot is so high ( hehe) that I just had to replace it with a hobby as a bonus. I have a fair bit in my setup but literally this grow of 4 autos should put me about even for most of the costs. And I still have everything including nutes for a round of 6 autos, now that I know how they grow.

I tried hydro for a little bit, but I don’t think I’ll be going back to it. It just felt a little too messy for my liking. These days, I’m leaning more toward hands off, automated systems. I like to keep things as low-touch as possible, which led me to switch over to coco. I also experimented with FloraFlex fertigation for a while, but over time that started to feel a bit too involved as well. Right now, I’m giving Autopots a shot to see how they fit into my setup.

As for autos, I’ve personally never really connected with them. I’ve always preferred photos since they give me more flexibility—especially with veg time and cloning. All the plants in my veg tent right now are clones from my flower tent, and before flipping them to flower, I plan to take another round of cuts to keep the cycle going.

Have you found any major advantages with autos that make them worth it in your opinion? I’ve always leaned toward photos for the control they offer, but I’m open to hearing different perspectives.

 

[JIMKSI64]

I tried hydro for a little bit, but I don’t think I’ll be going back to it. It just felt a little too messy for my liking. These days, I’m leaning more toward hands off, automated systems. I like to keep things as low-touch as possible, which led me to switch over to coco. I also experimented with FloraFlex fertigation for a while, but over time that started to feel a bit too involved as well. Right now, I’m giving Autopots a shot to see how they fit into my setup.

I also would like a more hands off system.

Have you found any major advantages with autos that make them worth it in your opinion? I’ve always leaned toward photos for the control they offer, but I’m open to hearing different perspectives.

I can let you know after the younger plants are in jars. .My first set I trained like they was gonna stretch more and they stopped so I got one stem out in space LOL.
The second set has twice the bud sites and way more fans. That will tell me if these 20 autoflower seeds were worth it, not my first 2 plants

 

[logical]

Just a quick update — it hasn’t even been 24 hours since the flush, and I’m already starting to see signs of recovery. It’s looking more and more like the high EC and salt buildup were causing a lockout. They’re definitely not fully bounced back yet, and I wasn’t planning to share any photos until they looked a bit better, but I figured it might be helpful to show what kind of progress can happen in a short time. Really appreciate all the input, advice, and suggestions — I’ll keep sharing updates as they continue to recover, and of course of the other half of my veg tent and then on to my flower tent.

 

[Captspaulding]

Def a quality improvement

 

[logical]

Your plants are pulling mag as well. Your lights output is set slightly too high.

The lights are currently set between 400–600 PPFD, and I’m in week 7 to 8 of veg. I feel like that might be a bit on the lower side for this stage of growth, but I could be wrong.

 

[Captspaulding]

The lights are currently set between 400–600 PPFD, and I’m in week 7 to 8 of veg. I feel like that might be a bit on the lower side for this stage of growth, but I could be wrong

OK so PPFD maps that come with your light as well as the factory suggestions for light height and output for any given stage of veg are generally way too much and what you gotta understand is that not every strain or cultivar is created the same. The genes of the strains used are a way better metric to go by. No I always tell people that you should always set your lights at 25 to 30 inches above. Your canopy don’t ever exceed 40 to 45% output during veg and in flower the name of the game is to incrementally increase your lights output 3 to 5% every 5 to 7 days instead of just jumping all the way up to 80-90% like suggested in the instructions, while at the same time, manufacture respect, calling for you to drop the light down all the way to 12 inches away from canopy is counterproductive for newer growers that don’t understand or know the precursord of deficiencies toxicities, light damages, and the difference between them.
Some deficiencies look like light damage or heat damage and vice versa so it’s always better to set everything high at low percentages and then incrementally up taking everything like after your plant is done being a seedling and it gets into veg. You should think about slowly increasing the output, but never going above 45 to 50% veg. I will generally stay at 40% no matter what but that’s a good metric for veg and then in flower increasing from 40 to 50% with the hopes of getting to 100% by the time you have to chop nowadays with these lights, I never finish with any of my lamps over 80% almost every cultivar will start bitching around the 8085% mark so I always back it down And I never adjust the height down to my plants. I will boost them up to the light if they require it that way you’re not dropping the light down on top of a bunch of other plants that might not want that same amount of light get what I’m saying.
There’s no need to redline your gear for any given stage of growth. Some plants will take really harsh settings but will grow better in a more mediated environment.
So long story short, keep your gear high output low increase it overtime,
The incremental increasing is about allowing your plant to harden off to the light and get acclimated to it instead of jumping up 30 to 40% at one time and shocking your plant most likely burning it and causing heat stressors.
This also give you the ability or a better window into watching your plants and seeing how they react, you jump up a huge amount right away and you end up with issues that you’re not too sure about you’ll be running around like your hair is on fire.
A few examples……
Current crop in pic 1
The rest are previous runs,
But you can see plainly that the crop doesn’t suffer from these methodologies neither does your yield sometimes less is more
And I got one pick in here to show boosting. I’ve got boxes and bins and totes boosting my plants to the light as opposed to dropping it down.
And a intent shot as well showing light height
My veg space as well showing light height, the distance between the top of the canopy, and the lamp is vast

 

[logical]

OK so PPFD maps that come with your light as well as the factory suggestions for light height and output for any given stage of veg are generally way too much and what you gotta understand is that not every strain or cultivar is created the same. The genes of the strains used are a way better metric to go by. No I always tell people that you should always set your lights at 25 to 30 inches above. Your canopy don’t ever exceed 40 to 45% output during veg and in flower the name of the game is to incrementally increase your lights output 3 to 5% every 5 to 7 days instead of just jumping all the way up to 80-90% like suggested in the instructions, while at the same time, manufacture respect, calling for you to drop the light down all the way to 12 inches away from canopy is counterproductive for newer growers that don’t understand or know the precursord of deficiencies toxicities, light damages, and the difference between them.

I actually already learned this the hard way. So I usually don’t follow the manufacturer’s recommendations when it comes to light height and intensity, if I did, I’d likely end up with light burned plants right from the start. For example, take a look at the diagram they provided me below.

Honestly, it just doesn’t make sense based on my experience. My light is over 700 watts and I think if I did 80% at 1.5 feet, I would cook my plants. In some of my earlier grows, I did follow their guidelines and unfortunately ended up with plants that were both heat and light stressed. Some even turned herm toward the end and produced seeded buds. It really ruined the overall quality, both in potency and flavor. Since then, I’ve adopted a “less is more” approach and I'm hoping it'll make a big difference.

Regarding my veg tent, my light doesn’t have a percentage readout, so I rely entirely on a PPFD meter. I actually have two to cross reference for accuracy. Until you mentioned it, I hadn’t really considered how different strains might benefit from different PPFD levels at various growth stages. That’s definitely something I’ll be looking more into. For now, though, I just go by PPFD, not power percentages.

Some deficiencies look like light damage or heat damage and vice versa so it’s always better to set everything high at low percentages and then incrementally up taking everything like after your plant is done being a seedling and it gets into veg. You should think about slowly increasing the output, but never going above 45 to 50% veg. I will generally stay at 40% no matter what but that’s a good metric for veg and then in flower increasing from 40 to 50% with the hopes of getting to 100% by the time you have to chop nowadays with these lights, I never finish with any of my lamps over 80% almost every cultivar will start bitching around the 8085% mark so I always back it down And I never adjust the height down to my plants. I will boost them up to the light if they require it that way you’re not dropping the light down on top of a bunch of other plants that might not want that same amount of light get what I’m saying.
There’s no need to redline your gear for any given stage of growth. Some plants will take really harsh settings but will grow better in a more mediated environment.
So long story short, keep your gear high output low increase it overtime,
The incremental increasing is about allowing your plant to harden off to the light and get acclimated to it instead of jumping up 30 to 40% at one time and shocking your plant most likely burning it and causing heat stressors.
This also give you the ability or a better window into watching your plants and seeing how they react, you jump up a huge amount right away and you end up with issues that you’re not too sure about you’ll be running around like your hair is on fire.

I understand your perspective, and for my current setup, it’s just easier to lower the light height during veg to reduce power usage, especially since I’m always looking for ways to cut costs. That’s actually one of the reasons I moved to Autopots, no need for water pumps, everything is gravity fed which helps a bit with savings. That said, I’m using the Tray2Grow system, so I can’t lift individual pots as needed.

Now in my flower tent, the light is at max height, and I just adjust brightness in 10% increments. But I'm still only about 24 inches off my canopy so I believe 80% would burn them up. I noticed from your setup that you have a full grow room, which gives you a lot more flexibility, especially with ceiling height. That’s definitely something I hope to work toward in the future.

But you can see plainly that the crop doesn’t suffer from these methodologies neither does your yield sometimes less is more
And I got one pick in here to show boosting. I’ve got boxes and bins and totes boosting my plants to the light as opposed to dropping it down.
And a intent shot as well showing light height
My veg space as well showing light height, the distance between the top of the canopy, and the lamp is vast

It sounds like you manage everything based on power percentage. Do you ever measure PPFD directly? I just wonder if adjusting the light height could potentially increase your yield per watt. For instance, if your light maxed out at 650 PPFD at full brightness, but your strain’s ideal PPFD is closer to 800 during flower, wouldn't that possibly cost you some weight in the final harvest?

 

[logical]

Your plants are pulling mag as well. Your lights output is set slightly too high.

You might have been right all along

 

[logical]

I’m noticing a new symptom showing up in the flower tent, and it started shortly after the flush. They’re currently in week 5 of flower. I decided to flush because the medium was reading between 3.0 and 4.4 EC, which seemed too high at this stage. I’m also starting to think it could be some sort of deficiency, but I’m not entirely sure yet.