I
IamN2pot
- 351
- 93
What's going on? Well, in another post reguarding these seeds, here, I said "The finch's and wild bird population in my back yard will love them." Well, I fed those little birds untill they were fat, to fat to fly and I still have some of those seeds to try to give away!
I've done a lot of research on male hermie's and because of the knowledge I believe I've learned since I posted that original post, I'm going to offer a packet of 15-20 seed, FREE.
The male Finnish Frost (FF) that hermed on me I believe is due to a genetic tendency of the FF cultivar, as I have found another report of FF flipping, F to M. So with that in mind, I believe the one thing everyone I ask agreed on, please do NOT use these in any breeding program! That said, there are certainly 2 lines of thought on what these protigy will be. Some gardeners, like the post in the thread I linked to, say that the genetics go crazy, like back to the variety an F2 can show. Others that have played with male hermied pollen had differant experiances. They did not report any major shift in pheno's and got a 50/50 ratio of M-F. I can't say, perhaps both experiances are true.
With pemission to post this from a member on another forum, Tracker, he wrote what IMHO is a simple explaination of the different sex outcomes from hermied and regular plants.
"Since the female sex chromosomes look like XX then reversed female pollen can only contribute an X to the combination with a female flower, which also contributes an X, thereby resulting in all XX in the progeny (feminized seeds).
When breeding Female x Male you get XX x XY where the result looks like 50/50 ratio of XX and XY.
Something like this....
(X + X) x (X + Y) = 2XX + 2XY
A male plant can be forced to make female flowers with ethylene fruit ripening spray. BUT when you pollinate the female parts on a hermed male plant you get the following...
(X + Y) x (X + Y) = XX + 2XY + YY
The 25% of progeny YY are very bad. Those are called super males. They are only cable of contributing a Y to the reproductive process. This means all seeds resulting from the cross of a super male with any female will end up being males."
That looks to me to be the same thing a source I will always trust said about male hermies and double YY Supper Males, Skunkman Sam, here is that link.
Skunkman Sam: “Male intersex plants are different because they are XY times XY so out of any seeds that result, 25% will be YY, 25% will be XX and 50% will be XY.”
If you are confussed about the YY Super Males, so was I. Turns out the YY can only occur on the herrmied male, not any females it pollenates. So IF there had been any male selfed seed on that hermied male, THOSE seed would have been 25% YY, 50% XY and 25% XX. NO SEEDS WERE PRODUCED ON THE HERMIED MALE, so no YY super male seeds. Sorry if that is what you wanted. These seeds will be a 50/50 M/F ratio of F4 Finnish Frost.
Germinating these seed. Yes, I did a trial run to see if they would even germinate. They will, but only with a little help. They have to be scarified. I went 5 days with no genination, not even a tail. So I did an old trick and carefully squeezed a seed between my fingers until the seam on the seed cracked. Next morning I had a 1/4 inch tail. So I took 20 more seed, scared them with some 120 grit sandpaper and got 17 to germinate. A small piece of 120 grit is included with each packet of free seeds.
I think the last thing I need to disclose is that the original seeds were purchased from 7 East Genetics and acording to 7 East, they were an F3, making these seed F4's.
Still interested? All you need to do is PM me a name and address to send a packet to and I'll get them off to you in the mail.
Help my little wild birds to regain their flight, PM me for some seeds!!! 🙂 Polly want a pot seed?
WHILE SUPPLIES LAST - UNITED STATES ADDRESSES ONLY PLEASE!
Keep seeding!
:quality(85):strip_exif()/https://www.thcfarmer.com/attachments/img_20220217_104759-jpg.1233129/ "IMG 20220217 104759")
:quality(85):strip_exif()/https://www.thcfarmer.com/attachments/img_20220217_104449-jpg.1233132/ "IMG 20220217 104449")
:quality(85):strip_exif()/https://www.thcfarmer.com/attachments/finnish-jpg.1233134/ "Finnish")
:quality(85):strip_exif()/https://www.thcfarmer.com/attachments/finnish2-jpg.1233139/ "Finnish2")
:quality(85):strip_exif()/https://www.thcfarmer.com/attachments/pappafinnishfrost-jpg.1233135/ "PappaFinnishFrost")
:quality(85):strip_exif()/https://www.thcfarmer.com/attachments/finnishfrostseed-jpg.1233137/ "FinnishFrostSeed")
I've done a lot of research on male hermie's and because of the knowledge I believe I've learned since I posted that original post, I'm going to offer a packet of 15-20 seed, FREE.
The male Finnish Frost (FF) that hermed on me I believe is due to a genetic tendency of the FF cultivar, as I have found another report of FF flipping, F to M. So with that in mind, I believe the one thing everyone I ask agreed on, please do NOT use these in any breeding program! That said, there are certainly 2 lines of thought on what these protigy will be. Some gardeners, like the post in the thread I linked to, say that the genetics go crazy, like back to the variety an F2 can show. Others that have played with male hermied pollen had differant experiances. They did not report any major shift in pheno's and got a 50/50 ratio of M-F. I can't say, perhaps both experiances are true.
With pemission to post this from a member on another forum, Tracker, he wrote what IMHO is a simple explaination of the different sex outcomes from hermied and regular plants.
"Since the female sex chromosomes look like XX then reversed female pollen can only contribute an X to the combination with a female flower, which also contributes an X, thereby resulting in all XX in the progeny (feminized seeds).
When breeding Female x Male you get XX x XY where the result looks like 50/50 ratio of XX and XY.
Something like this....
(X + X) x (X + Y) = 2XX + 2XY
A male plant can be forced to make female flowers with ethylene fruit ripening spray. BUT when you pollinate the female parts on a hermed male plant you get the following...
(X + Y) x (X + Y) = XX + 2XY + YY
The 25% of progeny YY are very bad. Those are called super males. They are only cable of contributing a Y to the reproductive process. This means all seeds resulting from the cross of a super male with any female will end up being males."
That looks to me to be the same thing a source I will always trust said about male hermies and double YY Supper Males, Skunkman Sam, here is that link.
Skunkman Sam: “Male intersex plants are different because they are XY times XY so out of any seeds that result, 25% will be YY, 25% will be XX and 50% will be XY.”
If you are confussed about the YY Super Males, so was I. Turns out the YY can only occur on the herrmied male, not any females it pollenates. So IF there had been any male selfed seed on that hermied male, THOSE seed would have been 25% YY, 50% XY and 25% XX. NO SEEDS WERE PRODUCED ON THE HERMIED MALE, so no YY super male seeds. Sorry if that is what you wanted. These seeds will be a 50/50 M/F ratio of F4 Finnish Frost.
Germinating these seed. Yes, I did a trial run to see if they would even germinate. They will, but only with a little help. They have to be scarified. I went 5 days with no genination, not even a tail. So I did an old trick and carefully squeezed a seed between my fingers until the seam on the seed cracked. Next morning I had a 1/4 inch tail. So I took 20 more seed, scared them with some 120 grit sandpaper and got 17 to germinate. A small piece of 120 grit is included with each packet of free seeds.
I think the last thing I need to disclose is that the original seeds were purchased from 7 East Genetics and acording to 7 East, they were an F3, making these seed F4's.
Still interested? All you need to do is PM me a name and address to send a packet to and I'll get them off to you in the mail.
Help my little wild birds to regain their flight, PM me for some seeds!!! 🙂 Polly want a pot seed?
WHILE SUPPLIES LAST - UNITED STATES ADDRESSES ONLY PLEASE!
Keep seeding!
