UC actual available nutrient profiles

[desertsquirrel]

If we are going to learn how to maximize the most expensive piece of hydro equipment you can buy then we had better step up our game and make sure we are talking about the same things. Comments such as h&g has "too much N" or "k is king" are not helpful in understanding what kind of nute profiles flourish in the UC system.

So, in an attempt to understand the UC that i am undertaking i thought i would provide the profiles for all the lines im considering running. hopefully with the numbers in mind we can discuss the pros and cons of the actual available nutrient profiles. Below are the calculations for the profiles at full str (undercurrent profiles will be half of these) as well as in a 10ml/gal for easy use. Also if you are posting numbers in ppm or tds please include the conversion rate your meter is using.

Also anyone with the numbers on DM please post them or ill find them in a few days. (and if your interested in learning more about nutrient profiles a good place to look is Shroomdr's post on icmag, some of these profiles are his work.)

My initial thoughts:

H&G - N seems fine. wtf is up with no cal numbers?
Dyna - P is too high
Maxi - Again, high P
PBP - +7 ml cal-mag
CNS17 - bloom looks good

Profiles:

H&G (8ml/gal A&B)
N 112

P 40

K 200

Mg 16

Ca UNKNOWN
S 0

Dyna Bloom (7ml/gal)
N 72

P 126

K 120.4

Mg 11.9

Ca 48.3
S 2.1

GH MaxiBloom Powder
(5-15-14) (NH4)0.5% (NO3)4.5% Mg3.5% Ca5.0% Fe.1% S4.0% @7g/Gal

N 92.4

P 120.4

K 215.6

Mg 64.4

Ca 92.4

S 74.2

Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Bloom Hydro (2-3-5)
@15mL/Gal
N 91.5
P 60
K 189
Mg 22.5
Ca 45

Botanicare Cal Mag Plus (2-0-0) @7mL/Gal
N 37.8
P0
K0
Mg 22.4
Ca 60.2

Botanicare CNS17 Hydro Grow (3-2-4)
@15mL/Gal
N 136.5
P 39
K 151.5
Mg 22.5
Ca 127.5
S 49.5

Botanicare CNS17 Hydro Bloom (2-2-5)
@15mL/Gal
N 91.5
P 39
K 189
Mg 22.5
Ca 91.5

Botanicare CNS17 Ripe (1-5-4)
@15mL/Gal
N 30 45
P 66 99
K 101 151.5
Mg 3
Ca 5
S 3

And at 10ml/gal:


H&G
(3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @10ml/Gal

N 140

P 50

K 250

Mg 20

Ca UNKNOWN

S 0


Dyna Gro Bloom
(3-12-6) (NH4) 0.7% (NO3) 2.3% Mg0.5% Ca2% Fe0.1% S0.09% Mn0.05% @10ml/Gal

N 103

P 181

K 172

Mg 17

Ca 69
S 3

Fe 3.4552

B .691

Cl NOT LISTED

Co 0.0518

Cu 1.7276

Mn 1.7276

Mo 0.0311
Zn 1.7276

Derived From: Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, Iron, Boric Acid, Potassium Chloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper, Molybdic Acid, Manganese, Zinc Disodium Ethylenediamine Tetra Acetate


GH MaxiBloom Powder
(5-15-14) (NH4)0.5% (NO3)4.5% Mg3.5% Ca5.0% Fe.1% S4.0% @7g/Gal

N 92.4

P 120.4

K 215.6

Mg 64.4

Ca 92.4

S 74.2

Fe 1.848

B NOT LISTED

Co NOT LISTED

Cu NOT LISTED

Mn NOT LISTED

Mo NOT LISTED

Zn NOT LISTED

Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate Ammonium Nitrate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Iron DTPA, Iron EDTA, Potassium Borate, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ammonium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate.

Cutting Edge Solution Bloom
(0-6-5) Mg1% S2% 1090g/946mL= 1.15g/mL@10mL/Gal
Cutting Edge Solution Micro
(6-0-0) (NH4)0.3% (NO3)5.7% Ca5% Fe.1% B.02% Co.0005% Mn.05% Mo.0008%
1200g/946mL = 1.27g/mL @6mL/Gal

N 120.6

P 80

K 126

Mg 30

Ca 100.8

S 61

Fe 2.01

B .402

Co 1.20

Mn 1.008

Mo 0.018

Na NOT LISTED

Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron DPTA, Iron EDDHA, Boric Acid, Cobalt Sulfate, Manganese EDTA, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Nitrate. Phosphoric Acid, Magnesium Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Sulfate

Botanicare Cal Mag Plus (2-0-0) Mg1.2% Ca3.2% Fe.1% 1.0208 g/mL @10mL/Gal
N 54
P0
K0
Mg 32
Ca 86
Fe 2.7
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA.

Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Bloom Hydro (2-3-5) Mg.5% Ca1%
4360g/3800mL = 1.147g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 61
P 40
K 126
Mg 15
Ca 30
Derived from: Fish Meal, Composted Seabird Guano, Kelp, Rock Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, Calcium Carbonate. 0.15% Humic acid derived from leonardite.

Botanicare Cal Mag Plus (2-0-0) Mg1.2% Ca3.2% Fe.1% 1.0208 g/mL @10mL/Gal
N 54
P0
K0
Mg 32
Ca 86
Fe 2.7
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA.

Botanicare CNS17 Hydro Grow (3-2-4) (NH4).14% (NO3)2.86% Mg.5% Ca2.8% S1.1% Mn.05% Mo.0005%
4360g/3800mL = 1.147g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 91
P 26
K 101
Mg 15
Ca 85
S 33
Mn 1.5
Mo 0.015
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Nitrate, Manganese Sulfate, Ammonium Molybdate.

Botanicare CNS17 Hydro Bloom (2-2-5) (NH4)0.09% (NO3)1.91% Mg.5% Ca2% S1.14% Mn.03% Mo.0003%
4360g/3800mL = 1.147g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 61
P 26
K 126
Mg 15
Ca 61
S 35
Mn 0.9
Mo 0.009
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Nitrate, Manganese Sulfate, Ammonium Molybdate.

Botanicare CNS17 Ripe (1-5-4) Mg.1% Ca0.15% S.1% Mn.01% Mo.0001%
4360g/3800mL = 1.147g/mL
@10mL/Gal
N 30
P 66
K 101
Mg 3
Ca 5
S 3
Mn 0.30
Mo 0.003
Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Mono Potassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Nitrate, Manganese Sulfate, Ammonium Molybdate.

 

[desertsquirrel]

So after talking with daniel (who was extremely helpful and professional) i have come up with the initial profiles for the 3 UC systems im going to run.... any input would be helpful...

PBP (living) - UC-XXL X16

2.5 ml cal-mag
7.5 ml PBP Hydro Bloom
.6 ml Roots exel
Aquashield
superthrive
Protek to 5.4

CNS 17 (sterile) - UC-XXL X16

9ml CNS 17 Hydro bloom
1ml Zone
add .27
protek to 5.4

H&G (sterile) - UC-XXL X32

1.5 ml cal-mag
4 ml H&G A
4ml H&G B
1 ml zone
add .27
protek to 5.4

I have not decided if i will crown feed bennies in the living system as of yet... other then that these profiles are designed to not alter during the course of the grow with the exception of pk boosters during flower (most likely shooting powder or the FF boosters) and of course flush...

I have been toying with 1/2 str of the 1/2 str for the first 2 weeks after seeing some very nice looking pics at around 300-350 ppm on here... Any thoughts?


Ill post the actual available ppm for these profiles tonight when i have some more time....


And here are the 2 small UC’s.....

 

[UCMENOW]

Room is soo bad ass......best wishes on your grow DS.

 

[Chris1]

sick room! is that an 18 wheeler trailer??

 

[BudGoggles]

I believe I am the only person on this site or icmag that is running botanicare triflex (live res) in the UC.
Ive run dm for a 1 1/2 yrs before I switched to triflex and every plant in all 3 ucs are thriving like never before. I believe the mix of org and chem with benies is where its at.
I keep it simple triflex with cal-mag + bennies in veg and the addition of bigbud and overdrive in bloom.
My yields keep climbing every harvest and I believe Im going to shatter the 2#s per light goal and all this with no co2.

I start my cuts in 1/3 strength 350-400 ppm conv .5 and slowly climb to 1/2 strength 550-600 ppm in veg. In bloom I have yet to exceed 800 ppm and only hit that at peak blooming.

I gotta go be back later
BG

 

[desertsquirrel]

thanks alot guys! Budgoggles i totaly agree man thats exactly how i run the rest of my hydro and people who smoke it swear its soil... lets see how it does in the side by side with the UC.

 

[UCMENOW]

Consider running roots excel in the H&G grow and just do the one sterile UC with the cns.

Plus it's a perfect compliment to the H&G line up.

 

[desertsquirrel]

UCME i have been trying to figure out how to work the roots ex into the H&G all day but the 32 already has uv sterilizers set up, will they kill the bioactivity in it?

i wish i could post in real time but my replies need to go through a mod first.

 

[UCMENOW]

UCME i have been trying to figure out how to work the roots ex into the H&G all day but the 32 already has uv sterilizers set up, will they kill the bioactivity in it?

i wish i could post in real time but my replies need to go through a mod first.

Consider kicking the UV sterilizer and let nature take it's course.....besides the UV can/ will break down certain minerals like magnesium and cause them to fall out of solution, becoming unavailable for plant uptake.

This may end up necessitating more frequent nute change outs to introduce fresh nutes not affected by the UV.

Sounds like your programs/ profiles are very well thought out so I'm sure you'll do well regardless of the route you choose..

 

[desertsquirrel]

when you say elements like mg do you mean all ions with a double positive charge? thanks again for the help ucme....

pics of the rooms, the profile calculations and explanation of our set up coming this afternoon...

 

[desertsquirrel]

Here at the MMJ Ranch and Spa every lady is treated like a queen and no amenity has been spared....

The gurls can choose to lounge bucket-side and dip their roots into 0ppm hospital grade water that has been geothermaly cooled and uv filtered to a prime 68 degrees. A dip doesnt interest you? maybe just sit under the top drip waterfall provided at each bucket site. Or just bask under the 500 watts per site. Cold? feel free to turn up the heat, or the co2 they both run on propane that is sourced here at the ranch and spas. Feeling all cooped up inside? feel free to retire to our totaly green greenhouse that is heated and co2ed with the spa room exhaust and fertigated with our reservoir change outs....




(pics are of spa rooms 2 and 3, as well as the hospital grade water system, and above that, the ballast's on the ceiling. dont look up!) plants in spa room 2 have been going for 4 days.

Also, i need to add that 90% of this build out was done when i got here. The crew i work with is top notch/grade A and this is mostly their work, not mine.

 

[BudGoggles]

My bennies are aquashield, roots excel added to rez and great white added crown feed 2 times in veg.
I agree ditch the uv run live rez

 

[UCMENOW]

I should say especially mag, given the important role it plays in facilitating enzyme production and promoting photosynthesis.....so it tends to be the most noticeable deficiency in my experience with UV in the UC.

 

[desertsquirrel]

i got thrown a few curve balls yesterday when doing my profile calculations. As a result the work i did is in a new thread called "the myth of low n." but ill repost some of it here...

if you look at the tissue numbers N almost Doubles during flowering.

 

[deacon1503]

Damn....thats some serious water production.

 

[desertsquirrel]

We got the second undercurrent up and running today, and got all change outs done. 1) X16 w/pbp, 2) x!6 w/cns17 and 3) x32 w/H&G. all phed to 5.3. Also im toying with running cns17 grow for the whole grow, we will see.

Strains are:

1) AK47, heavy duty fruity
2) Shire
3) Blueberry, Blue dream, the church, cheese, white russian, white diesel, C99, Smart Alex, and Pure Power Plant (mostly riot genetics).

 

[Onespark]

Thanks DS, very helpful post. Great info. I am glad you took the time to share. The rooms are tight. Are they in trailers or did your crew build them? Plants look awfully close to the wall in the second setup. Curious to see how that room fills up with some monsters in there. Best of luck! Sure you are gonna kill it in those UC's!

Off to read the myth of low N...

 

[UCMENOW]

5.3 sounds good in Rockwool but about 0.5 too low in water culture to achieve max mineral availability in solution. Especially iin veg when N is better available around 6.0.....that low pH sounds better suited for bloom IMO

Your operation is so clean....looking forward to seeing it unfold, kudos.

 

[Randyb]

We got the second undercurrent up and running today, and got all change outs done. 1) X16 w/pbp, 2) x!6 w/cns17 and 3) x32 w/H&G. all phed to 5.3. Also im toying with running cns17 grow for the whole grow, we will see.

Strains are:

1) AK47, heavy duty fruity
2) Shire
3) Blueberry, Blue dream, the church, cheese, white russian, white diesel, C99, Smart Alex, and Pure Power Plant (mostly riot genetics).

How tall do you let the plants get in veg before you flip the lights to bloom? Your set up looks so clean, best of luck. thanks.

 

[desertsquirrel]

Interesting you mention that UCME, i logged on to ask you about it. I see drift from 5.3 to almost 6 over night after i put fresh nutes in (pbp, cns17, and H&G). one undercurrent in particular seems to dip to 6.2 regardless of what i do to it.... Think i got some shit built up in my buckets or something?


And rooms are in Zircons.