UC vs. MPB buckets

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I been lurking for a while and the differance between all these are not standing out as I read on them . From what I can tell UC draws water through the buckets , rdwc pushes water through the buckets and MPB pushes into buckets independently from a central res?

Some people use a res and some do not , what is the bennifit?

I see plant buckets varying in size alot from 5 gallon to 25 gallon , whats the bennifit?


A little background . I been growing for about 3 years . I finally have a place I can do what I want in hence the questions . I have 7 600w lamps(not always running all) but would like to upgrade to 1000w when I get some cash . Currently running Co2 with controller , I have a nice 18seer 2ton mini-split and 18k btu window AC . I been doing all hempys which is a pain in the ass , with GH nutes . My grows dont really compare to anyone on here but I'd like to take it to the next level .
 
nobody gives a $#!t. not specific enough. no one wants to bull$#!t. not enough info for real answers you got the idea stay with what you got make it better. not enough post for a response. you know, good luck getting a response. more room for roots is better. circulate your solution for ease of ph ppm control.chocolate vs vanilla, preference, environment,etc. good luck really hope you find your answer.
 
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Honestly... using the 1k bulb will get you what you are looking for. UC and RDWC help the plants to grow faster... not so much bigger. I believe bigger is the result of strain and root mass. The 1k will get deep below the canopy.

Hope this helps.... also read up on the UC forum and you can see some of the journals.
 
You should research some more, then come back. Sounds like you were researching, had some questions and decided to post here.

The bigger bucket sizes give the plant more room to grow. You cant put a 25 gallon plants' root mass in a 7 gal bucket. Some things about growing are made more complicated by novice growers. Basically, bigger buckets = bigger plants (ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE THOUGH)

All the hydro systems you named need a res. I haven't ran hydro but I've read up a bunch, i could be wrong though. A mpb setup is a form of rdwc hydro. With 7 600's, you could do a downsized version of dd's system (mpb). There's a whole section on that system alone. Check it out, you have plenty of reading to do for the next couple days. :pimp:
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
MpBs are handmade so that depends on you a lot. Though the quality of uc buckets it would be hard to do a poor quality if you have skills working with your hands. I prefer the water flow in MPB's over UC's. JK
 
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MPB's and UC both work on flooming as well.

There's is so little to choose between them really. UC has the edge (Just) as it needs less moving parts to work so reliability will be higher.
 
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I really like this question!!

MPD is a specific type RDWC that is not UnderCurrent, however I run a MPD type of system where the buckets are connected with 2" PVC which makes it UC but the room setup and design, veritcal bulbs etc is all the same as MPD.

A local grower is getting 2-5 lbs a plant with a very similar MPD style system that uses 2" pvc to connect the containers making it UC which I emulated for mine.

The Current Culture systems you can buy commercially are getting great results but they are not being marketed for use with Vertical Bulbs and I feel would do great in supporting an MPD type of system.

I would say you could get similar results with MPD or UC as long as you know what you are doing but it seems it may take 3-10 crops to even get over a LB per plant unless you are a hydroponics genius and already use to getting those types of yields.

UC has a lot of benefits to MPD with the best being less pump requirments, less need for water chiller, using gravity, faster water flow.

For me trying to combine UC with MPB has been similar to chaising two to rabbits at the same time and not catching one as I have not broken the LB a plant barrier after 2 runs.

I would recommend following Double LEDs advice as much as possible until you get your yields up to his levels.

As far as container size with 5 gallon buckets by the end the bucket is 90% filled with roots so you really are best with something around 10-20 gallons.

No point re inventing the wheel or trying to outsmart nature...

Good luck friend!
 
check the uc site they have multiple systems designed for vertical light and even 40" centers like dd used to run. they even have 35 gallon modules now
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
I really like this question!!

MPD is a specific type RDWC that is not UnderCurrent, however I run a MPD type of system where the buckets are connected with 2" PVC which makes it UC but the room setup and design, veritcal bulbs etc is all the same as MPD.

A local grower is getting 2-5 lbs a plant with a very similar MPD style system that uses 2" pvc to connect the containers making it UC which I emulated for mine.

The Current Culture systems you can buy commercially are getting great results but they are not being marketed for use with Vertical Bulbs and I feel would do great in supporting an MPD type of system.

I would say you could get similar results with MPD or UC as long as you know what you are doing but it seems it may take 3-10 crops to even get over a LB per plant unless you are a hydroponics genius and already use to getting those types of yields.

UC has a lot of benefits to MPD with the best being less pump requirments, less need for water chiller, using gravity, faster water flow.

For me trying to combine UC with MPB has been similar to chaising two to rabbits at the same time and not catching one as I have not broken the LB a plant barrier after 2 runs.

I would recommend following Double LEDs advice as much as possible until you get your yields up to his levels.

As far as container size with 5 gallon buckets by the end the bucket is 90% filled with roots so you really are best with something around 10-20 gallons.

No point re inventing the wheel or trying to outsmart nature...

Good luck friend!
UC has a lot of benefits to MPD with the best being less pump requirments, less need for water chiller, using gravity, faster water flow.
DD has his buckets raised, so how is something that is flat have more pressure(faster water flow)also using gravity to drain.

As far as container size with 5 gallon buckets by the end the bucket is 90% filled with roots so you really are best with something around 10-20 gallons.

UC told me my large Tanks were useless his 13 gal buckets were tits. After seeing my 36 gal tanks kick their ass they changed their tune. I would not run less then 25 gal tank. there is a reason. Suerte JK
 
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UC told me my large Tanks were useless his 13 gal buckets were tits. After seeing my 36 gal tanks kick their ass they changed their tune. I would not run less then 25 gal tank. there is a reason. Suerte JK
Could u please refer to the post or message where I or "UC" told u your 36 gallons were useless? And they or I used the descriptive word "tits" to describe the 13's? .

Oh, and when did your tanks "kick their ass"? Please refer me to this ass kicking so I too can become a believer.

No matter what your tank size it needs to be attached to an effective system to be relevant. I've talked to multiple farmers that have tried to purchase your units only to be given the run around.

U are a knowledgable and positive member of the farm, BUT your "GM Series" is illusive to say the least. Please prove me wrong with some thing other than a 6+ year old Janus picture, a tree pic with a dog or a photo of tanks in a uhaul.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
I will not reread old post for your comments I was referring to a call to uc/cc But I will openly discuss and compare systems in any of my threads. JK
 
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JK I personally would like to see more pictures as well, how does one go about buying your system, do you have a website I can check out your different products? :wondering
 
IMHO, its no contest....UC all the way!

Im sure I wont win any friends with this post (and apologize in advance for all I offend or who runs a MPB system...Im sure there is always a place for every system), but I must be honest.....The MPB seems like a very wasteful over complicated design.

If I were at work with my fellow team of engineer's and we were presented the design of the MPB to scope as we do with so any different projects....I could see us scrapping about half the parts and ending up with a redifined efficient design that would prolly end up looking alot like the UC design I imagine.......efficiency...just cant get past that part and how IMHO the MPB design lacks it......and the UC system is superior at it.

PS- I would also love to see one of these elusives JK systems but have given up after seeing so many folks denied when asked....I wonder how a person who wants to buy one gets one???....seems damn near as bad as trying to get a med card...ROFL.....as a builder/designer/engineer for the past 28 plus years of RDWC designs I cant help but be curious....pretty sure all the trade secrets are either already known by now or are in no fear of being stolen...rofl..some peoples kids...lol...how much harm could some pics do anyhow......I dont get the secrecy but then again I dont get alot things....hehe
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
IMHO, its no contest....UC all the way!

Im sure I wont win any friends with this post (and apologize in advance for all I offend or who runs a MPB system...Im sure there is always a place for every system), but I must be honest.....The MPB seems like a very wasteful over complicated design.

If I were at work with my fellow team of engineer's and we were presented the design of the MPB to scope as we do with so any different projects....I could see us scrapping about half the parts and ending up with a redifined efficient design that would prolly end up looking alot like the UC design I imagine.......efficiency...just cant get past that part and how IMHO the MPB design lacks it......and the UC system is superior at it.

PS- I would also love to see one of these elusives JK systems but have given up after seeing so many folks denied when asked....I wonder how a person who wants to buy one gets one???....seems damn near as bad as trying to get a med card...ROFL.....as a builder/designer/engineer for the past 28 plus years of RDWC designs I cant help but be curious....pretty sure all the trade secrets are either already known by now or are in no fear of being stolen...rofl..some peoples kids...lol...how much harm could some pics do anyhow......I dont get the secrecy but then again I dont get alot things....hehe
If you think dd's tank is too complicated you for sure do not want my tank. I do not do business with cash croppers and not here. I have left my email for anyone to discuss hydro in anyway. I would show and tell here but logic has not approved it and I already have been banned for telling someone I run at 70 % rh and then was told I would have to fly to canada and get on my knees and maybe I could come back. So if you want to discuss buckets/hrdro I have a bucket thread where I can state my views and not get banned.

I still have not got a camera to show the bottom of my bucket which is all I will show and if you have done what you say a pic is worth a 1000 words.
 
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no need to defend yourself Jaliscokid, plently of kids on here who repeatedly asks you to show your system do not realize that they are custom tanks, and are designed to work for the individual set up however the individual want it to be, its not a cookie cutter out of the box stamp pressed in china or put together from parts at homedepot, and can be customized for aero, rdwc, aero+rdwc,dtw, swc, self cleaning lines, overflow ports, root viewing ports, interior plumbing ect.

like you said anyone whose serious could e-mail you and you two could come up with a tricked out tank. but if someone cant take a look at the pics you showed of your tanks and use their imagination then they probably wouldnt have a use for a system thats capable of doing whatever they chose it too
 
IMHO, its no contest....UC all the way!

but I must be honest.....The MPB seems like a very wasteful over complicated design.
until you actually try and run a recirc dwc grow with vertical lighting. then you appreciate things like top feed, quick discos for cleaning and the placement of inputs and drains.

bro, love him or nitpick him, dds laid out a step-by-step how-to for growers wishing to maximize yield with a limit on plant numbers and who want to build it themselves.

DDS's design alludes to heath robinsons design. do some research on that poster online and see what true innovation is.

under current makes complete sense if peeps just want to buy it, assemble it and get growing. I built out an mpb system but cut the rwdc at the last minute and went top fed 100% perlite DTW as i realized i needed to get a few tree grows down with a bit more safety and can't risk rookie screwups. I would modify the spacing to suit my needs on UC.

ultimately I would drop the coin and work with jalisco kid if a) i felt I could handle RWDC and b) he would work with me.

i am very comfortable with perlite and if I was going to recirculate I'd emulate Janus. MrDizzle made a very GOOD case against RWDC over time. It's sweet for experiments and/or a small portion of one's activities... but for me I'm under a gov't restriction (40) and those (40) gotta produce!!! I'm under a time frame too b/c we maybe have a year or two max here before tha program changes.

what made really reconsider RDWC (and I have the passion, budget and ability to live with the plants if need be) was that as time passes (4 or 6 crops down the road) the chances for catastrophic loss increases. Is it because things wear out? environment shifts? pathogens build up in the system that are hard to totally eliminate at cleanup?? (thank you MrDizzle for the wake-up call!!)

MrDizzle has been instrumental. Jalisco's writings (all the way back to the discussions with Reeferman re: Krusty buckets) have been another guiding light.

A clincher was Coxie. That guys room with the custom fab stands was insane. It's hard to spend more money than he did and obviously the grow lacked nothing in terms of environmental control, solution temp control and ability to clean the whole unit. Despite an unlimited budget and the willingness to spend as much time as necessary, he switched to media and away from RDWC!!!! if that guy makes a decision like that.... what chance do I stand??



If I were at work with my fellow team of engineer's and we were presented the design of the MPB to scope as we do with so any different projects....I could see us scrapping about half the parts and ending up with a redifined efficient design that would prolly end up looking alot like the UC design I imagine.......efficiency...just cant get past that part and how IMHO the MPB design lacks it......and the UC system is superior at it.
hopefully, in your theoretical scenario, your crew of engineers would figure out how a tree grows in water, how to get it to yield and how not to kill it and then actually setup and grow from start to finish at least a crop or two. Think of starting a small plant or rooted cutting in the system. Don't forget how important res changes, flushing and cleanup are.

then taking your experience into consideration, start trying to simplify the MPB setup. seriously what would be, say, the top 5 things you do away with to simplify it?

PS- I would also love to see one of these elusives JK systems but have given up after seeing so many folks denied when asked....I wonder how a person who wants to buy one gets one???....seems damn near as bad as trying to get a med card...ROFL.....as a builder/designer/engineer for the past 28 plus years of RDWC designs I cant help but be curious....pretty sure all the trade secrets are either already known by now or are in no fear of being stolen...rofl..some peoples kids...lol...how much harm could some pics do anyhow......I dont get the secrecy but then again I dont get alot things....hehe
what RDWC systems were you designing in 1983?

if you want to see a jalisco kid system, figure out your space and wattage parameters then begin the process. It costs more than rubbermaid (or similar) tubs hooked together with pvc from home depot. you can do so many things cheaper. Hell, buy an under current and rip it. they are awesome for what they are: a competitively priced system with adequate consideration given to most/all aspects of RDWC **PLUS** awesome customer support!! on the other hand if you have the license and budget, or balls and budget, to run huge trees with huge wattage and you don't want to DIY... who else is there but Jalisco Kid???? who do you call??

why do people who will never actually grow on a large-scale using RDWC always want to see pics of JK's work??? the real value is not as much the equipment (although big tough tanks CLEARLY ROCK) but the fact you don't have to build it yourself, it's customized for your space AND you are going to get some serious guidance as you run it.

it's kind of disheartening to see someone critical of DDs system. by extension that is a knock on Heath Robinson. Knocking Heath is a great way to demonstrate that the commentator has no clue what they are talking about. His vertical innovations, along with DDoc (coliseum and cage inventor) are beyond reproach. (see my photo album for my vertical work).

Do I think it's possible to hit 3 or 4 lbs on 40" centers? Of course not!! is the system valid? Fuck yeah!! Is an MPB better than UC? the answer is always: it depends!!! I like how they (CC) are trying to continually improve their system! I also REALLY like the flexibility of MPB's but ya have to want to get really involved in the build process.

the following pics (and my album) show a little bit of some of the things I've done to date. I'm not trying to jack this thread as these pics have nothing to do with UC or MPB grows but pics have a way of validating the author of a post to some extent.

prep for my first tree run:

(40) cuttings vegging up pre-transplant



looking ok before putting them in to harden off under HID:



Transplant! (1 gallon hempy's to get roots out into the 100% perlite. later it'll be into the big containers)

 
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