UCRoots - come on guys really?

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sedate

sedate

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Implying that you must have to be stupid or gullible to use UC nutes or products is what I have a problem with

Okay. I will agree with you here. That sentiment, in its totality, is quite over the top.

The mainline RDWC setup (like the system itself), as well as the bulk of the nute line, is more or less on par/price point with anything from Bontanicare, GH, etc. While the system itself is pricey, here the plug/play and customer service more than justify the premium.

I would reword my thought to specify UCRoots the specific product- not Current Culture as a company. I would also direct similar criticism to a number of other products from other companies - (Botanicare's ClearEx comes to mind, as well as SNS217, among others) As I've said several times in this thread, I'm all for reasonable profiteering.

I mean, by my own figures I make something like 1750% on each oz I sell.

That acknowledged and agreed upon, lets dive into the rest of your comments:

TK said:
the exact same can be said for GH 3 part, GH is the hands down king of profiteering in the hobby size grow product arena yet those are the guys you champion...

I champion GH 3-part? Hardly.

sedate said:
They are trolling for cash with a shitty mineral based nute line that about stacks up to GH's 3-part.

By implication I am actually calling 3-part 'shitty,' but anyway, like I said, my criticism should have been directed specifically at UCRoots, not the entire nute line.

That was sloppy and I should be far more precise when I post. Nevermind that I don't think that about UC's entire line - just that particular product.

TK said:
and before those cats put their product in the game it wasn't commercially available out of the box..period..now in an effort to be an one stop shop for hardware and nutes somehow that diminishes their integrity or something and that people who endorse their product are somehow stupid and or gullible..that is a joke to me and most others that read it....

Whoa! I did not say any of this. You extrapolated all of this from "on the backs of stupid and gullible growers."

Across the board, and I get how this was obscured by snotty tone of my post, I was actually talking about the economic concept of informational asymmetry -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry

Not so much implying that anyone who uses CC products is 'stupid and gullible' - again - a sloppy bit of posting on my part.

I've been on forums long enough I should have realized how incomplete and insulting that statement was and how it would come across. So here, I apologize for the confusion.

Okay. Let me be clear: I think Current Culture is a premier company in this industry. I think CC offers, with UCRoots being the one glaring exception, a good value for your growing dollar. I think the RDWC systems are particularly impressive.

I would love to own one, except my hard-on for building everything myself would get in the way.

All I can say is I have actually used the nute line in a RDWC system and I had a really great run with it. No deficiencies, no toxicities. I can't say any more than that. There is always a cheaper way, but more people like the easy way for many reasons... Sometimes it's ignorance and sometimes convenience. I think most people don't mind paying the high price for some of these products because they aren't growing lettuce and the bottom line is not affected very much by the variable cost of nutrients or sterilizing agents..........If you get down to is sedate, all nutes are "overpriced"... just raw salts and water. It's cheap as fuck to make... but people are still buying it out of convenience or ignorance... or both. :)

Sure. The difference here isn't that I think all nutes are 'overpriced' - it is that this one particular product is egregiously so.

A semi-organic blend of NPK, a bit of cal-mag, with fulvics and a spot of bennies might be easy to make - it is - but I think Botanicare's PureBlendProGrow is 'better' because of the 'convenience' - and at a reasonable $40 a gallon everyone involved in the transaction is appropriately compensated for the cash/material/time-of-production/etc., outlay.

Except UCRoots isn't a blend of anything - it is scarcely even a recipe. It is only one common household chemical, added in laughably small dosages, to plain water, and resold at some 100000% markup. And you know this.

Capulator said:
The use of bleach is the cheapest aspect of my growing. Thats why I find the cost of retail products sucha s Pythoff so AN ish. Flairform charges something like $10 for a 1 quart bottle of RO water with a few cents of Chlorox added to it sold as Pythoff. Reminds me so much of Advanced Nutrients prices.

Agreed Cap. Agreed. ;)

TK said:
bust out a thread of your homemade ground breaking innovative grow setup and your unique base salt mixes to prove your not just another one of us stupid gullible sheep

Sure. I don't need an entire thread, but I do walk the walk homie:

25-lb salt bags from JRPeters I mix up something akin to my own Jack's Classic:

AprilShowers2014 008.jpg

So the blue (the only thing actually mixed here) works out to 22-33-33, the white is 52-34 (monopotassium phosphate, ie, Mad Farmer's MOAB) and the yellowish is traces, with Advanced Floraculture silicon for pH...

Probably about the cheapest/most concentrated/effective base I've ever used in 4 years..

Works out to just over $200 for 100lbs of salts ... when the MOAB alone (which, to be clear, is a good value by hydroshop standards) would cost $100 for two pounds in the hydroshop......

TK said:
.if you don't like UC products or services, Don't use them, pretty damn simple

Okay, this is a cutesy, common type of refrain. Sort of shuts down discussion without any real analysis.

If I don't like something however, I find discussing it is the best way to change it. Maybe my neo-liberal way of thinking.

And this is a discussion forum. The point of forum life is figure out neat little grow-hacks like - you know - 50cents worth of household chemicals could save the clever grower hundreds of hard grown dollars.

I seriously didn't start this thread to be a hater.

I was trying to save my fellow grower mad cash on a simple, overpriced product..

..that is all..
 
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SoComa Kid

SoComa Kid

36
8
so why is the UC better than maxibloom or any other good recirculating nutes supernatural etc.
Can you tell us why we SHOULD use UC ROOTZ instead of pool shock.
fyi they are PRICKS ON The phone IMO
I HAVE A 12 SITE CC
Why pay for water the system is expensive as it is
WHAT MAKE ThieRE Nutes BETTER
 
Dizzy Weasel

Dizzy Weasel

Loves Eating Tacos
Supporter
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fyi they are PRICKS ON The phone IMO
I HAVE A 12 SITE CC
Why pay for water the system is expensive as it is
WHAT MAKE ThieRE Nutes BETTER
x2 some days they are dicks some more helpful..... bought 5 32's and no damn tee shirt? And was ordering parts to expand one sys and CEO dude kept trying to upsell me to buying another system! Dude I'm already buying systems... And the nutes work well is why I do use them I have enough to do with work and family to add another job like mixing own salts... But that kind of Cust service is what you get when a drug/car salesmen turns biz man I see it often... (It's the why r u calling if your not buying shit! Attitude sometimes) Not knocking tgere sys I like it it's simple pays for itself in a run or 2 and saves tons of time
 
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FooDoo

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I've noticed a lot of CC nut swingers here. When CC says jump , they don't even ask how high, they just start jumping. I have a 32 site and a 16 , I do love the system and it only takes one crop to pay for itself, however I don't sheep into buying more and more of their products.

All these members are following their nute line to a T and don't even know what pom of n p k mg s ca are even in their recommended feeding.

Since when did it become OK to not think for yourself or be educated in our field.
 
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FooDoo

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Sedate, I just want to thank you personally. I didn't have any horrible root problems but started to get that filmy slime on my airlines and stones so I wanted to treat it before it caused any harm. I unfortunately listened to the advice of people like Texas kid and ordered uc roots two days before finding this thread.

It just arrived today and I feel completely ripped off. I opened the bottle and it looked like water. Didn't even smell anything until I stuck my nose right into the opening when I could finally pick up on a little bit of bleach. You are exactly right, I just paid 100$ for a gallon of water with a tiny bit of bleach that I could have made myself for 15 cents.

Honestly, Texas kid should be ashamed and embarrassed of himself for calling someone who FOR FREE tried to help us save money and drop knowledge a "side line hater". OP is looking out for his fellow grower like a brother would and you have the oddasity to start name calling like a child.

If CC went under tomorrow and closed their doors, no real grower would feel any kind of dent. There's nothing that you can pay them to tell you that multiple members on multiple forums aren't willing to teach a stranger for free. To say its OK to get ripped off because of customer service is ludacris.

I will now be using Dirty Weasels formula of 8.xx% bleach at 200ml per 1.5 gallons of tap to make my own UC Roots for 2$. that saved 98$ pays water and garbage service, or cell phone bill, or a third of my electricity bill.

So again, thank you to the real members of this site. The ones who look out for each other and never ask for anything in return. Those are my brothers, and I hope I can one day repay the favor or pay it forward.
 
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FooDoo

1,278
263
Been using HTH pool shock since my uc roots ran out.

This is about a month old clone . ro water + chiller at 68 degrees (temp reached 72 during 24/0 veg) with hth pool shock at 1 gram per gallon of RO to make a solution then applied to the system at 3ml/gal of that shock solution once a week.
IMG_20141030_212122878_HDR.jpg


Again, hth shock at 1 gram per gallon of RO which costs about half a penny to make. compared to 90$ a gallon of UC roots
 
sedate

sedate

948
63
Been using HTH pool shock since my uc roots ran out.

This is about a month old clone . ro water + chiller at 68 degrees (temp reached 72 during 24/0 veg) with hth pool shock at 1 gram per gallon of RO to make a solution then applied to the system at 3ml/gal of that shock solution once a week.
View attachment 455120

Again, hth shock at 1 gram per gallon of RO which costs about half a penny to make. compared to 90$ a gallon of UC roots

What are you doing for nutes FooDoo?

For a sterile root zone those roots are looking mighty-whitey and super branchy - are you doing rooting hormones or anything else? When you say "month old clone" do you mean like rooted out 6x6 block or like rooted 1x1 plug?

Sedate, I just want to thank you personally. I didn't have any horrible root problems but started to get that filmy slime on my airlines and stones so I wanted to treat it before it caused any harm. I unfortunately listened to the advice of people like Texas kid and ordered uc roots two days before finding this thread.

It just arrived today and I feel completely ripped off. I opened the bottle and it looked like water. Didn't even smell anything until I stuck my nose right into the opening when I could finally pick up on a little bit of bleach. You are exactly right, I just paid 100$ for a gallon of water with a tiny bit of bleach that I could have made myself for 15 cents.

Honestly, Texas kid should be ashamed and embarrassed of himself for calling someone who FOR FREE tried to help us save money and drop knowledge a "side line hater". OP is looking out for his fellow grower like a brother would and you have the oddasity to start name calling like a child.

If CC went under tomorrow and closed their doors, no real grower would feel any kind of dent. There's nothing that you can pay them to tell you that multiple members on multiple forums aren't willing to teach a stranger for free. To say its OK to get ripped off because of customer service is ludacris.

I will now be using Dirty Weasels formula of 8.xx% bleach at 200ml per 1.5 gallons of tap to make my own UC Roots for 2$. that saved 98$ pays water and garbage service, or cell phone bill, or a third of my electricity bill.

So again, thank you to the real members of this site. The ones who look out for each other and never ask for anything in return. Those are my brothers, and I hope I can one day repay the favor or pay it forward.

Hey glad someone appreciated that! I was so incredulous at the markup I spent sometime trying to disprove myself before I originally posted this thread - I took the shit for some sort of Hormex-type product at first given the pricing structure, but, nope - dilute bleach water..
if you look in the Hydrofarm distribution guide for 2014 it even fucking says some shit like
"UCRoots with amino acids and proprietary chemicals for root health" I sort of vomited in my mouth.

Appreciate all the likes. Glad I could save ya some loot. Ya I wasn't really sure why I pissed off some of the folks around here so bad pointing this out.

I was really quite surprised at the vitriol earlier in the thread for taking a swipe a BS product like UCRoots.
 
cephalopod

cephalopod

83
18
Anyone willing to try to show me how to calculate how much Ca is being added when using a gram of Ca Hypochlorite 47.6% in a gallon of RO and using that solution at the rate of 3ml/gallon?
 
F

FooDoo

1,278
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What are you doing for nutes FooDoo?

Calmag+
GH floramicro
GH florabloom

Nothing else.

For a sterile root zone those roots are looking mighty-whitey and super branchy - are you doing rooting hormones or anything else? When you say "month old clone" do you mean like rooted out 6x6 block or like rooted 1x1 plug?

No rooting hormones what so ever. And by month old I meant 4 weeks since taking a rooted cutting out of an ezcloner and putting it into the under current to start veg
 
PwnanObrien

PwnanObrien

79
18
Just to be clear, these compounds are interchangeable for our purposes.

Sodium hypochlorite becomes hypocholorous acid when it comes into contact with water.
Sodium Hypochlorite is a salt of hypochlorous acid.

With both Clorox Bleach and UCRoots the ingredient - BEFORE it goes into water - is sodium hypochlorite.

Something like this (for simplicities sake I'm ignoring anions and free hydrogens and shit):

NaClO + H20 =(2) HOCl + Na2O

EDIT: Fucking stoichiometry takes too much algebra after bong hits.

This is correct: (I think, but happy hour is getting close someone else check me ;))

NaClO + H20 -> HOCl + NaOH

See that Na20 NaOH? That's sodium oxide hydroxide, it's what is left of the reaction after ccH2o puts sodium hypochlorite into the water - and that's where that last percentage of product (the last .018% , the active and inactive ingredient %'s do not add up on the bottle) is made up of.
UCRoots is a few mg of sodium hypochlorite mixed with water.

UCRoots/CurrentCulture is just saving you that step for a small ($248/gallon) fee.

...that is all....
Such an epic thread to be rendered to obscurity so quickly.. It should live on.
This post is pure Gold. I don't know why so many individuals are whining about your content dude, of which is the only chemistry laden material that has been presented to the boards. All of the opposing parties seem to be content simply adhering to the ideology of " Aww Shucks, I don' know much 'bout n I don wanna hear bout no Chemistree or nothin', but I'll be damned if I'm gunna stand by while you sit there and....(insert long winded aggressive denialist post of your choosing Here)

How amusing.
 
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alaskind

alaskind

732
243
excellent thread... glad I read it, OP is awesome for speaking up... showed me a cpl things here... :D
 
Chronic Monster

Chronic Monster

1,096
113
Been using HTH pool shock since my uc roots ran out.

This is about a month old clone . ro water + chiller at 68 degrees (temp reached 72 during 24/0 veg) with hth pool shock at 1 gram per gallon of RO to make a solution then applied to the system at 3ml/gal of that shock solution once a week.
View attachment 455120

Again, hth shock at 1 gram per gallon of RO which costs about half a penny to make. compared to 90$ a gallon of UC roots
sexy ass roots :) good shit !!!
 
sedate

sedate

948
63
Such an epic thread to be rendered to obscurity so quickly.. It should live on.
This post is pure Gold.

Yea I thought so. Thanks.

Obrien said:
I don't know why so many individuals are whining about your content dude, of which is the only chemistry laden material that has been presented to the boards.

I think it is the psychology of telling confident guys that are making money that they are wasting lots of it. For example, I point to TK's initial posts in this thread - an experienced grower and one of the very few posters that has been around as long as I have - but he quickly attacked me for no other reason that he and lots of other fellow growers use and (think) they benefit from this product.

Pointing out to these folks they are burning money - in a psychological sense - makes them think I am telling them they are stupid or do not know what they are doing. Not so at all - and this is profoundly intellectually immature - but the potential blow to the ego of someone who has spent thousands on this product results in a total shutdown of discourse.

Especially when that same guy has no college degree and no real skills - but is making several thousand (or more!) a week (a day!). I mean - how can someone (who is hiding behind a trade barrier with criminal penalties) with a huge pile of cash be stupid? No way. Not even going to listen. Definitely going to attack.

It's sad, but the level of formal education (although folks tend to be innately intelligent) in this industry is really very low (evidenced, I think, by the typically poor writing/grammar on grow boards), so this it isn't all that surprising. I've sort of gotten used to it.

obrien said:
All of the opposing parties seem to be content simply adhering to the ideology of " Aww Shucks, I don' know much 'bout n I don wanna hear bout no Chemistree or nothin', but I'll be damned if I'm gunna stand by while you sit there and....(insert long winded aggressive denialist post of your choosing Here)

How amusing.

Yup. Glad a few folks appreciate it. :)
 
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