Ultraviolet-a/b Advanced.

[GT21]

keep on topic
stay safe(causes skin cancer and cataracts)
Only knowledge, no blind opinions.

UVR has been shown to increase trich production in many plants... not just cannabis.

i have 4 years of photon study and have done many side by side tests on the subject. I wouldn't post this topic without knowing it increases protection in the plant. (Read the download first)



http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1399-3054.2003.00006.x/full



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4080826/





https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...-led-community-help.86815/page-2#post-1863931





http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-3054.1992.tb01337.x/full



https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00468-001-0129-3



please add anything you want to the thread pertaining plants and ultraviolets

 

[Ignignokt]

And there is a business that is specifically exploiting UV treatments in commercial agricultural applications: http://www.biolumic.com/

PAR ain't what it used to be. Silly humans, only considering their limited spectrum perspective.

 

[captainsano]

This is interesting...

We had to talk quite a bit about supplementing UVB in our flower room but in the end decided not to even though our air cooled lights are rumored to filter out UVB.

I think the more relevant chart would be one where it shows how absorption rates of different plant materials vary across the spectrum?

Like this:

So the science (google) says that UVA is 315-400 nm, UVB is 280-315 nm, and UVC is 100-280 nm. And if we're going by this chart then none of this UV light is being absorbed by chlorophyll-A and B, while the lutein, carotene, zeaxanthin, lycopene etc. are very inefficient at best when it comes to processing the energy.

Am I on the right track?

 

[GT21]

Plants and animals do not like ultraviolets... its for protection. The closer we get to x ray and gamma(x rays shoot through your body) the more an organism protects itself. Our skin burns when hit by uv.. the cooked skin blocks more uv... a plant throws out trichs to protect the plant tissue and seeds from more uv. Both your chlorophyll a/b and photosystems 1 and 2 are where photons are absorbed. Both your photo systems and your chlorophyll are above uvb... uvc waves are so narrow that they hit an organism so hard that they destroy the dna helix.

 

[StandingRock]

This is why ceramic metal halides have been flowering so well. They have a nice spectral output to begin with but have a lot more UV output than other lights.

 

[lino]

I am just now experimenting and getting ready for in depth study of light after 4 decades of horticulture and plant experiments and studies I have never dived deep into lighting.
Years ago on this site I was blasting plants with massive Gamma Rays creating mutants, ppl thought I was nuts. I spoke of argon lites and CFL lighting, Farmers thought I was crazy. I was laughed at so I left that thread also.
Then I came back to another thread speaking of UVC blast to kill bugs yrs ago, again I was laughed at.

Anyway IDK anything about lighting so Ive done some wacky lite experiments. I realized we dont understand light as I noticed many 1800 light invention devices that we still dont understand to this day. I posted the break through in the Crooks Radiometer to demonstrate that light is not understood on my seed 2 seed thread.

So Ive been maintaining a few small gardens, IMO it seem like the LED gardens THUS far have not had mildew issues. I dont know this to be true and more of question . And is there high UVc in the normal LED grow lites? I notice the possibility of infrared spectrum in diodes, IR in LEDs? Lots of IRs in LED? One of the gardens that I helping with had a VEG and BUD switch set to ON. the lites were ON and in a 12 hr cycle. I turned off the VEG spectrum switch and after 1 day the leaf stems were fire red.

sun seems to not stop PM once its started to stay on topic. I'd assume the sun has high UVs. Ive put plants outside that have gotten PM and it does not help slow or stop mildew in Colo environments but yet Ive seen experiments in videos where UVc will kill PM on blueberries. It must be the doses of UVc that killed it, not sure on that either.

And with out light scopes and the fancy apparatus I cant get my prisms to separate crap. I guess I have to break down and buy that equipment , But I heard some new Android phone apps will break down lite spectrum so I hope that happens soon, maybe these App already exist. I didnt find any Spectrum Apps last I checked. Ive given up Apple Apps, they suck, the selection and availability sucks.

Sorry guys I get OCD on threads,, get off topic and I almost posted a pic of the 500 lb gamma ray blaster.. :nailbiting:

 

[GT21]

I am just now experimenting and getting ready for in depth study of light after 4 decades of horticulture and plant experiments and studies I have never dived deep into lighting.
Years ago on this site I was blasting plants with massive Gamma Rays creating mutants, ppl thought I was nuts. I spoke of argon lites and CFL lighting, Farmers thought I was crazy. I was laughed at so I left that thread also.
Then I came back to another thread speaking of UVC blast to kill bugs yrs ago, again I was laughed at.

Anyway IDK anything about lighting so Ive done some wacky lite experiments. I realized we dont understand light as I noticed many 1800 light invention devices that we still dont understand to this day. I posted the break through in the Crooks Radiometer to demonstrate that light is not understood on my seed 2 seed thread.

So Ive been maintaining a few small gardens, IMO it seem like the LED gardens THUS far have not had mildew issues. I dont know this to be true and more of question . And is there high UVc in the normal LED grow lites? I notice the possibility of infrared spectrum in diodes, IR in LEDs? Lots of IRs in LED? One of the gardens that I helping with had a VEG and BUD switch set to ON. the lites were ON and in a 12 hr cycle. I turned off the VEG spectrum switch and after 1 day the leaf stems were fire red.

sun seems to not stop PM once its started to stay on topic. I'd assume the sun has high UVs. Ive put plants outside that have gotten PM and it does not help slow or stop mildew in Colo environments but yet Ive seen experiments in videos where UVc will kill PM on blueberries. It must be the doses of UVc that killed it, not sure on that either.

And with out light scopes and the fancy apparatus I cant get my prisms to separate crap. I guess I have to break down and buy that equipment , But I heard some new Android phone apps will break down lite spectrum so I hope that happens soon, maybe these App already exist. I didnt find any Spectrum Apps last I checked. Ive given up Apple Apps, they suck, the selection and availability sucks.

Sorry guys I get OCD on threads,, get off topic and I almost posted a pic of the 500 lb gamma ray blaster.. :nailbiting:

In my experience lighting is the most important thing you can study. The first 5-6 years of growing i spent all my time on studying and tweaking nutrients. I learned a lot but i wasnt seeing extreme changes to the product like i wanted no matter what i used or mixed together. Then in the last 4 years or so i went to a simple base and boost nutrient regiment and started messing with lights, color, intensity, fragment and direction and i started having some breakthrough changes in the product. I studied what the sun had and tried to mimic it. It is impossible to get the intensity of the sun but it is possible to put a spectrum together that is close to the sun. The reason i started this was because i always heard people say that OUTDOOR IS ALWAYS BETTER. Started looking at what many growers use for nutes and didnt see any breakthrough product they were using so one day i looked up!!!! Changed my life and the meds i make forever. I can take plants that people hate due to bad quality and i can turn it into a gem now. I compiled these charts, websites and the download because it really gave me a firm grasp on photons and the purpose of the trich. Now i hope to pass on the knowledge to people so it doesnt take people years to learn what i learned.

 

[Ignignokt]

And is there high UVc in the normal LED grow lites?

I sure hope not. UVA led sources are relatively common and cheap however the shorter wavelength devices are quite expensive. Of course, someone could put a phosphor on a COB that would emit in that range if they can get the proper energy stimulation source ( I'm not sure just how they would do that, as you lose a bit in the conversion so at best the efficiency would suck balls ).

One should pay close attention to where our atmosphere attenuates ( filters ) the spectrum. Also, the shorter the wavelength of a photon, the higher the energy ( why shorter wavelengths damage DNA ). Ag science did not seem to pay much attention to UV exposure until we punched that hole in the ozone layer. That lead to many studies, but most of them focus on UVB, UVC ratios and neglected to even use UVA components, critical for plant recovery from the shorter wavelengths. As a result, they saw massive die-offs and well, it painted a pretty bleak outcome from borking the atmosphere.

I'm still of the mind that UVC sources never should be used without saftey interlocks to prevent exposure. The effect is insidious, ask anyone who has suffered from 'welder's burn'. You don't feel the sunburn on your eyes until hours later, after the damage is evident.

 

[Ignignokt]

One place I've watched photon technology move along that edge is in semiconductor manufacturing. We have been shrinking chip design features smaller and smaller until the minimum feature size couldn't be imaged with anything but very short wavelength 'Deep UV'. The wavelength of the light used in the lithographic process became the limiting factor for down-scaling in complex CPU device manufacturing. It also helps they have loads of cash to throw at the problem, the sources are quite expensive.

 

[Ignignokt]

I was blasting plants with massive Gamma Rays creating mutants, ppl thought I was nuts.

Depends on what you are trying to do. If you want to kill or mutate terrestrial life, that'll do 'er. I don't think it is useful for much of anything else.

UVC is largely attenuated at the earth's surface, we would be here if it wasn't. There is little good that comes from using it for anything but disinfection.

I think we are suggesting here that using some UVB ( probably no shorter than about 300-305nm ) and about 10 times that level ( recall UVB is pretty energetic ) of UVA to more closely mimic measured Solar emissions at latitudes where cannabis thrives ( and even that depends on the strain ) and produces desired potency for numerous factors ( THC, CBD and terpenes for example ) is what we seek.

Personally, if I were to want mutations - I'd use colchicine. At least then the results would not be random and probably unexplained. When you first mentioned your experiments this jumped to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

 

[Ignignokt]

Ok, so this is an official way of making my safety-with-UV point and I'll leave it here in this thread:

 

[lino]

I sure hope not. UVA led sources are relatively common and cheap however the shorter wavelength devices are quite expensive. Of course, someone could put a phosphor on a COB that would emit in that range if they can get the proper energy stimulation source ( I'm not sure just how they would do that, as you lose a bit in the conversion so at best the efficiency would suck balls ).

One should pay close attention to where our atmosphere attenuates ( filters ) the spectrum. Also, the shorter the wavelength of a photon, the higher the energy ( why shorter wavelengths damage DNA ). Ag science did not seem to pay much attention to UV exposure until we punched that hole in the ozone layer. That lead to many studies, but most of them focus on UVB, UVC ratios and neglected to even use UVA components, critical for plant recovery from the shorter wavelengths. As a result, they saw massive die-offs and well, it painted a pretty bleak outcome from borking the atmosphere.

I'm still of the mind that UVC sources never should be used without saftey interlocks to prevent exposure. The effect is insidious, ask anyone who has suffered from 'welder's burn'. You don't feel the sunburn on your eyes until hours later, after the damage is evident.

Ive seen some UVC lights sold by vendors at cannabis events that eliminate mildew. Ive seen these UVC lite device for blueberry and other crops. They have warning signs on them for eye protection.

 

[Ignignokt]

I could see treating the incoming air stream with UVC. I cannot understand why (once you understand the interactions) it would be a good idea to use a source known to mutate terrestrial organisms when stable genetics are pretty much the point if you aren't doing 'weird science'.

I've also looked at the powdery mildew problem - pernicious but easily explained by micro climate issues in a canopy. The LED folks don't have to push air over the canopy if they are not blasting with far-IR. The traditional sources (metal-halide, etc.) have such a large IR component that fans are required, leading to the common setup recommendations.

PM emerges when the moisture level on the leaf surface reaches saturation just long enough for spore conditions to be perfect and the spore count is high enough for a colony. Once established, it spreads opportunistically. If you have control of humidity, you can kill the active infection with very low (< 25-30% ) humidity however the spores are probably everywhere. Once it goes bad, my research indicates only elemental sulfur vapor treatment ( well known to the greenhouse crowd ) is practical and proven.

 

[lino]

Depends on what you are trying to do. If you want to kill or mutate terrestrial life, that'll do 'er. I don't think it is useful for much of anything else.

UVC is largely attenuated at the earth's surface, we would be here if it wasn't. There is little good that comes from using it for anything but disinfection.

I think we are suggesting here that using some UVB ( probably no shorter than about 300-305nm ) and about 10 times that level ( recall UVB is pretty energetic ) of UVA to more closely mimic measured Solar emissions at latitudes where cannabis thrives ( and even that depends on the strain ) and produces desired potency for numerous factors ( THC, CBD and terpenes for example ) is what we seek.

Personally, if I were to want mutations - I'd use colchicine. At least then the results would not be random and probably unexplained. When you first mentioned your experiments this jumped to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

Thats exactly what I did, I built a ""Breeder Reactor"". I like that David Hahn already. I did the same thing he did . I got some lead blanket and did made some crazy azz plant breeds. I shot Gamma's in embryo, grafts, pollen, I freaked some plants and forced pollen crosses. Mine was much easier to build in 2010,, I used a projection TV lazors.
I got rid of the shit cuz of the radiation,,, was so heavy a 2x4 was flexing. Heard a loud crack when we were moving the Gamma Ray maching. Everybody left,, halled azz ,, cowards left me there to keep shit from going nuclear ractor on me. I started using a cherry picker to hold the gamma machine. Did you ever see the nuclear engineer build the 1st nuke bomb, That was almost me...

Holyshit,,, I was playing with nuclear bombs to avoid the danger of colchicine. You dont fuck around Dood... I had the option to sneak some colchicine from academia but after all the saftey equipment I used in lab and after reading the side effect,,,, colchicine is dangersous as shit, id almost lable it bio-bomb,, way harder to control than gamma rays... That shit scares the shit out of me. i actually wore a respirator,,, I know,,, but I didnt not want to get contaminated with that shit, scares the hell out of me,,, rather build a nuclear bomb. Easier to measure gigar counts than to test for colchicine contamination... Dont be offended if I visit with rubber gloves and a respirator... jus joking lol...

On serious note:
Can you get colchicine? I know how to handle it and will reward kindly... I dont have access to colchicine anymore. Most American Chem Companies dont send it in the mail anymore and Ive been raided by APHIS Agents in the 80 and the took my lab so I dont order and bomb or bio-reactor chemicals anymore.

 

[GT21]

Ive seen some UVC lights sold by vendors at cannabis events that eliminate mildew. Ive seen these UVC lite device for blueberry and other crops. They have warning signs on them for eye protection.

About the only uvc light i recommend is right here... you plug it into a duct.. i dont even recommend the wands because people use them too much and in very unsafe manners. Without proper safety you will get cancer.

This thread is mainly about how to use the lowest nanometers possible in the safest way possible for trichome and oil production

 

[lino]

Thanks @Ignignokt , I'm going to go read about David Hahn, that was a kewl feed of mind cookies thks

 

[Ignignokt]

Scared is probably good, I'd say. I find enough mutations present on the planet surface already, never thought I could do well or improve on that anyway. Nature has patience (natural selection) to weed out the mistakes. I have only limited time and sorta consider it somewhat vain to toy with her work in that way. But that is just my philosophy - And I'd advise to not toy with her designs in that way. You can chuck pollen and get interesting results fer christ sakes.

Let's just say - in a few years you might find that bit of pandora you got on your shirt in some critical organ, alpha particles aren't shit externally but they do a number when ingested:

When alpha particles emitting isotopes are ingested, they are far more dangerous than their half-life or decay rate would suggest, due to the high relative biological effectiveness of alpha radiation to cause biological damage. Alpha radiation is an average of about 20 times more dangerous, and in experiments with inhaled alpha emitter up to 1000 times more dangerous,[4] than an equivalent activity of beta emitting or gamma emitting radioisotopes.

(from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_particle )

 

[Ignignokt]

About the only uvc light i recommend is right here... you plug it into a duct..

First SANE suggestion for UVC usage I've seen since my sewage treatment days, aside from the robots used to disinfect hospital rooms.

 

[Ignignokt]

So - got a URL for where ya get that duct section? I can see they use quartz tube arc, if that includes the power supply... geez prolly not cheap either... But I usually buy one of something I find pretty interesting to satisfy curiosity about possibilities.

 

[GT21]

So - got a URL for where ya get that duct section? I can see they use quartz tube arc, if that includes the power supply... geez prolly not cheap either... But I usually buy one of something I find pretty interesting to satisfy curiosity about possibilities.

http://www.uvonair.com/ 250 bucks for the 8in in the picture. Other brands have a unit that goes in the duct but dont have the case or service door. These are the same as the water filters too.