Unlocking Cannabis’ Full Potential: The Case For and Against UV Scynce Led Light UV Cannabis Relation What is the true UV and Cannabis relation?

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Harpua88

Harpua88

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OMG, I'm so embarrassed! That's funny when I read that back. Normally I joke on purpose, and folks don't have to point my jokes out to me.

But really I'm not, Granny is coming up to my town to shoot hairs off fleas in a little while, she knows what I meant. Durban Poison is one of my all time favorites. I probably got something here she wants too. My latest shipment was from Dragons Flame and I got enough to share.
I've heard some good things from a few people about CannaGranny.......you are well liked, and clearly for good reason.
 
RootsRuler

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I was referring to places like California where power is really expensive, folks grow cheap weed outside and good stuff inside. The THC is already higher with indoor weed, and we are trying to make it higher still with lighting trickery. Essentially trying to hack into the plant.
I would agree with you 10 - 20 years ago. Outdoor growers have learned how to really push their plants. Especially the greenhouse/Light Deprivation growers. They have the luxury of a controlled environment without the high cost of electricity that a full indoor setup would have.

I've sampled lots of greenhouse/light dep grown flower and it was fairly close to indoor hydro. To me the difference is indoor tends to hold onto more terpenes and, if grown right, doesn't have to deal with outdoor stressors. I've noticed that hydro flower tends to be more delicate in flower construction and usually more dank. Again, lot's of outdoor growers that can really grow some oily flower but hydro will always be my favorite.
 
TSD

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I was referring to places like California where power is really expensive, folks grow cheap weed outside and good stuff inside. The THC is already higher with indoor weed, and we are trying to make it higher still with lighting trickery. Essentially trying to hack into the plant.
I wish I had friends locally that grew dank indoor. I probably have a skewed opinion on it. NY is only a few cents cheaper per kwh than Cali, so most everyone I know does the same as me, starts inside, finishes outside... and most people here don't put in the level of effort to overcome the challenges of this climate that I do (not trying to toot my own horn, it's just a fact) so I get why outdoor has a bad reputation, a majority of it is crap. I've traded ounce for ounce with a few different friends, and all but one left me feeling like I got the short end of the stick... of course I'd never tell them that, I just get out the blunt wraps and let er rip lol. The one guy I know that does do indoor doesn't really know what he's doing and won't take suggestions so it's subpar at best. All the indoor I have access to is either imported commercial mids from Cali or dispo weed. I've even tried the 15/gram "top shelf" stuff from the dispos, average at best. I honestly don't think I've ever even seen top shelf indoor like the folks here on the farm grow. I've had what people said was fire... but it was just mediocre to me. Maybe I'm too picky. Guess I'll have to save up for a proper indoor set up and try for myself one of these years.
 
AnimalHouse

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I was referring to places like California where power is really expensive, folks grow cheap weed outside and good stuff inside. The THC is already higher with indoor weed, and we are trying to make it higher still with lighting trickery. Essentially trying to hack into the plant.
In Texas we can grow good pot outdoors but the weather is too unpredictable to be reliable. Sometimes the best time to get a crop done is March thru June or go late, August/September thru November/December. And then there's Summer caterpillar season which can be worse than bud rot.

Indoors is where we do the damage and yep trying to hack the plant. Like playing poker and finding a way to slip 12 aces in the deck. In regards to this UV thing, the most I can say is IDK if it's UV or the entire blue spectrum but one of the biggest game changers around here was going from HPS to CMH or LED and using almost the same amount of blue spectra as red thru flowering over the old way of thinking, blue for veg and red for flower. That change of mindset took our indoor grown weed from good to elite
 
TSD

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And I'm not saying the indoor doesn't get me stoned, sure it does... but usually not for long, I don't want to have to smoke every 20 minutes.
It usually tastes like shit, isn't at a proper moisture level for me to vape, can tell it hasn't had a proper cure, most of the dispo shit is sprayed with fake terps so the smell isn't even indicative of the actual weed. Overall highly disappointing.
 
RootsRuler

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And I'm not saying the indoor doesn't get me stoned, sure it does... but usually not for long, I don't want to have to smoke every 20 minutes.
It usually tastes like shit, isn't at a proper moisture level for me to vape, can tell it hasn't had a proper cure, most of the dispo shit is sprayed with fake terps so the smell isn't even indicative of the actual weed. Overall highly disappointing.
I think you mentioned it but you also have some plants indoors. Autos right?
 
TSD

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I think you mentioned it but you also have some plants indoors. Autos right?
Yeah. I don't have high expectations. Don't have the best light. In a closet. Never grown an auto. Never flowered a plant indoors. Gelato has GSC lineage and I don't like GSC. Pretty much doing it out of boredom because I had the freebie seed. 🤷‍♀️
 
RootsRuler

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Yeah. I don't have high expectations. Don't have the best light. In a closet. Never grown an auto. Never flowered a plant indoors. Gelato has GSC lineage and I don't like GSC. Pretty much doing it out of boredom because I had the freebie seed. 🤷‍♀️
Watch. It'll blow up and produce the fattest, dankest flower you've ever produced. I like GSC. Once it's cured I'll send you my address.... 🤪
 
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TSD

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Watch. It'll blow up and produce the fattest, dankest flower you've ever produced. I like GSC. Once it's cured I'll send you my address.... 🤪
I guess that doesn't necessarily mean I won't like the Gelato... assuming it makes it. It's just the flavor I'm not a fan of, buzz is fine.
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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I wish I had friends locally that grew dank indoor. I probably have a skewed opinion on it. NY is only a few cents cheaper per kwh than Cali, so most everyone I know does the same as me, starts inside, finishes outside... and most people here don't put in the level of effort to overcome the challenges of this climate that I do (not trying to toot my own horn, it's just a fact) so I get why outdoor has a bad reputation, a majority of it is crap. I've traded ounce for ounce with a few different friends, and all but one left me feeling like I got the short end of the stick... of course I'd never tell them that, I just get out the blunt wraps and let er rip lol. The one guy I know that does do indoor doesn't really know what he's doing and won't take suggestions so it's subpar at best. All the indoor I have access to is either imported commercial mids from Cali or dispo weed. I've even tried the 15/gram "top shelf" stuff from the dispos, average at best. I honestly don't think I've ever even seen top shelf indoor like the folks here on the farm grow. I've had what people said was fire... but it was just mediocre to me. Maybe I'm too picky. Guess I'll have to save up for a proper indoor set up and try for myself one of these years.
That's because it's rather easy to grow a "7", maybe even an "8", but to grow/produce a "10" requires all of the details.......genetics, method, strong enough lights, then the fact that most people pick too early, don't know how to or don't spend the time and attention on curing.......

The finer things in life are always like this. "Great" anything is not the norm, the majority.......
 
Moe.Red

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My apologies for causing the thread to jump the track and be about indoor vs outdoor. Not my intention at all. My intention was to state that lighting technology has “surpassed” the sun in that we can put down 10x UVB of what the sun does at the surface if we want to. We are beyond striving to match the sun. Outdoors is limited by the atmosphere. Lots of photons just never make it to the planet. Indoors whatever we produce at the light makes it to the plant unfiltered.

I can also put down a higher ppfd than the sun in whatever spectrum I want, and yes I can simulate sunrise and sunset as well as clouds passing over. I can change spectrum within the day, within the season, whatever. All at higher ppfd than what I measure in my back yard. I am not saying this is better than the sun only that matching the sun is not a limit to strive for.

My point is that we are trying to find a loophole in cannabis genetics that we can hack into that produces X, in the case of UVB, X = higher THC.

An example of where we have been successful in exceeding nature is injecting CO2 or running hydroponics instead of organic dirt.

What I am saying is that UV does not seem to fit into the same class as CO2 supplementation for hacking into the plant.

None of this is an indictment on outdoor weed and now I wished I had just kept my mouth shut. I think I’m gonna follow granny’s lead here and do a quiet exit, cheers to all.
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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My apologies for causing the thread to jump the track and be about indoor vs outdoor. Not my intention at all. My intention was to state that lighting technology has “surpassed” the sun in that we can put down 10x UVB of what the sun does at the surface if we want to. We are beyond striving to match the sun. Outdoors is limited by the atmosphere. Lots of photons just never make it to the planet. Indoors whatever we produce at the light makes it to the plant unfiltered.

I can also put down a higher ppfd than the sun in whatever spectrum I want, and yes I can simulate sunrise and sunset as well as clouds passing over. I can change spectrum within the day, within the season, whatever. All at higher ppfd than what I measure in my back yard. I am not saying this is better than the sun only that matching the sun is not a limit to strive for.

My point is that we are trying to find a loophole in cannabis genetics that we can hack into that produces X, in the case of UVB, X = higher THC.

An example of where we have been successful in exceeding nature is injecting CO2 or running hydroponics instead of organic dirt.

What I am saying is that UV does not seem to fit into the same class as CO2 supplementation for hacking into the plant.

None of this is an indictment on outdoor weed and now I wished I had just kept my mouth shut. I think I’m gonna follow granny’s lead here and do a quiet exit, cheers to all.
Conversations should go where they go, there's nothing wrong with things taking an interesting turn. :) ......I've thought about how close we're getting to the sun (or surpassing it), and we're at an interesting point in history......we get to witness and be part of the indoor grow revolution, through the difficult phases, the increasing power and efficiency phases, and the "surpass the sun" phase? I can only imagine what there will be 20, 30+ years from now.........a light-producing device the size of a baseball that you hang or stand in the middle of the room that bathes every square foot........

It seems as if most of the progress has been in the breeding, with artificial light being more about maximizing the potential for these new strains (or being able to properly produce difficult, long-season sativas that were out of reach for the indoor grower 30+ years ago). Nutrients are nutrients, manure, bat guano, fish emulsion, peat moss, compost........nature has pretty much always provided, we just add it. Then there's knowing the plant.....what Ph does it like, the best temp, humidity, air circulation....there may be better examples, but tomatoes is often used as a comparison. We can grow vine ripened tomatoes indoors, and excellent ones. There's certainly enough power from lights to grow red, sweet, juicy tomatoes. But as we all know from.shopping in winter or spring, supermarket, mass-produced tomatoes aren't very good, especially off season......and growing those varieties, even under powerful lights, will mostly yield medicore tomatoes. But if we planted seeds from heirloom tomatoes and maximized those........now we're talking....

Ok, so if we can already produce the light energy power of the sun, with all the right parts of the spectrum.......is there anything else the sun produces that we haven't yet artificially? Like, I know we get Vit D from the sun, I've never looked into how it gives it to us (not that plants need it, or don't, it's just an example)..Some things the sun produces we actually don't want.......at least for us....

I've always thought about how far we can go with indoor lights and reproducing nature.......can we grow bananas indoors? Coconuts? If we had the space, or miniaturized them enough......I don't know. It certainly wouldn't be cost-effective, but could we? Could we grow 10 foot tall Redwoods and plant them outdoors?

For our purposes, it's like we're trying to produce the best, sweetest, juiciest heirloom tomatoes possible. If you love tomatoes (with mozzarella, fresh basil.....) then you know how delicious they are. If tomatoes isn't your thing then whatever fruit is.......cherries? Those honeybell oranges that drip sugary juice all over?

The rest seems up to the breeding. How much more THC do we need? Or need to fit into a certain amount of resin? Already, one or two good hits is certainly all I need. And how much resin can a plant produce before mold issues pop up, the weight of the buds becoming too much for the plant to support........I don't know where the resin/THC ceiling is, but it seems like it can't be THAT much higher than we're getting now. So what does all of this leave? Flavor, smells, terpenes, color.......well, we've already tackled citrus, skunky, berries......I've never actually had any "banana" variety, I'm actually wondering why I haven't, but do these varieties really smell/taste like bananas? You'd think if you had a variety called "Banana Tsunami pie" that was Banana OG x Banana Cake, that it would very much smell and taste like bananas.......

This all also leaves the "old school", heirloom, landrace, nostalgia side of things. I think that's actually going to be the next big thing........anyone who can produce these varieties and do them well.......I think there's going to be a big market for them. Just like older people like listening to "oldies" music. Of course, it depends on what their oldies was. When I was younger, oldies was doo-wop. Today Madonna is oldies. ;)
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Sorry didn't mean to hijack th thread with my little rant lol.
You are good, I came across as outdoor = bad indoor = good and I really don't think that. If I were you and that was my takeaway I would have had something to say too, your outdoor game is on point. Again, apologies for my clumsy wording that caused it.

What I think is that if someone could give me the recipe to make UV work, even if the values required in whatever spectrum exceed that of the sun at noon on the equator, I can produce that spectrum indoor. In the case of UVB, we can run that power past the outdoor UVB maximum to the point it kills leaves. Think tanning booth. In the increments I have tested from low to plant destruction, I have never seen the THC blip.

Really I was just trying to reach @Harpua88 and I am failing miserably, so I'll take the defeat and hope to do better next time. I wish anyone that wants to dabble in UVB better success than me.
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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You are good, I came across as outdoor = bad indoor = good and I really don't think that. If I were you and that was my takeaway I would have had something to say too, your outdoor game is on point. Again, apologies for my clumsy wording that caused it.

What I think is that if someone could give me the recipe to make UV work, even if the values required in whatever spectrum exceed that of the sun at noon on the equator, I can produce that spectrum indoor. In the case of UVB, we can run that power past the outdoor UVB maximum to the point it kills leaves. Think tanning booth. In the increments I have tested from low to plant destruction, I have never seen the THC blip.

Really I was just trying to reach @Harpua88 and I am failing miserably, so I'll take the defeat and hope to do better next time. I wish anyone that wants to dabble in UVB better success than me.
I totally got you........thank you...
 
TSD

TSD

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I can't even eat store bought tomatoes, because as I've said about a billion times, I'm all about the taste, weed, tomatoes, coffee, food at large... if it doesn't tickle my taste buds, I'd rather go without. My own tomatoes or some from a garden stand or none. Regardless of weather or not we can match the basic power of the sun, the ppfd or whatever you scientific growers measure, I still believe it adds something special. We don't understand everything about it. How do we know there's not some wavelength we can't measure or reaction that we haven't even fathomed? It's a great time for science and weed and for them to collide. I hope there's some cutting edge research coming our way. I'm a little obsessed with the new James Webb telescope and all the spectacular stuff it's finding out there that humans literally couldn't even have imagined was in existence a mere few centuries ago. We're going to be able to witness the collision of two super massive black holes in our lifetime, like within the next few years. If you don't think that's cool, we can't be friends. 🤣
 
TSD

TSD

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You are good, I came across as outdoor = bad indoor = good and I really don't think that. If I were you and that was my takeaway I would have had something to say too, your outdoor game is on point. Again, apologies for my clumsy wording that caused it.

What I think is that if someone could give me the recipe to make UV work, even if the values required in whatever spectrum exceed that of the sun at noon on the equator, I can produce that spectrum indoor. In the case of UVB, we can run that power past the outdoor UVB maximum to the point it kills leaves. Think tanning booth. In the increments I have tested from low to plant destruction, I have never seen the THC blip.

Really I was just trying to reach @Harpua88 and I am failing miserably, so I'll take the defeat and hope to do better next time. I wish anyone that wants to dabble in UVB better success than me.
I honestly didn't take it that way, I was just giving my two cents. I know you guys here know good outdoor is a thing, I just think there's a widespread belief that it's subpar across the board. Like if I wanted to sell some of mine to someone that didn't know my deal (which I wouldn't because I'm not a moron) but theoretically, my description would probably omit the word outdoor all together because of that belief... and it's not wrong a lot of the time, simply because it's honestly quite hard to get a top shelf result when mother nature shows no mercy.
 

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