hyzerflip
- 322
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Tell me where I can purchase any of these supposedly 'stable' / 'landrace' cultivars in seed form.
Tell me where I can purchase any of these supposedly 'stable' / 'landrace' cultivars in seed form.
JWM2
Premium Member
Supporter
- 3,806
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I’m buying one right now actually. 79 Xmas Bud. Search around. You’ll find the others.
C99 is out again by bros Grimm. Serious seeds has AK and bubblegum in stock everywhere. It’s not hard to find good proven and stable genetics. It really isn’t.
hyzerflip
- 322
- 63
I guarantee that '79 Xmas Bud' is not true breeding. You're literally believing marketing hype and stating it as fact.
Bros Grimm C99 is not true breeding. Again, he claims it is but universal experience shows that it is not.
Serious Seeds AK and Bubblegum both have a huge variety of phenotypes. They are not in any way 'stable' or consistent.
I am talking about true IBLs, the type of plants that could be used to make true F1s. True IBLs do not exist in cannabis. If you're a sucker for marketing you'll find plenty of people who claim they have such a unicorn, though....
JWM2
Premium Member
Supporter
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There are solid strains out there. I’m not going to argue genetics. I made my point. Been doing this since 2001. I’m well aware of marketing and hype. I’ve managed to avoid most of the garbage in the industry by keeping my eyes and ears open. Good luck finding your unicorn.
Unit541
- 234
- 63
Ok, this seems to be going nowhere, simply because it seems that there are some unrealistic expectations. A seed is not a clone, be it a Cannabis seed or a marigold. Anyone who expects a pack of seeds to grow out like a crop of clones is bound to make their way here, and start a thread such as this. There is only one response, and that is "Welcome to the world of growing Cannabis".
This is exactly why the concept of "pheno hunting" exists at all. Keeping moms can be a really pain in the ass, but a crop of clones from that mom is the only way you're going to have a crop of consistent plants and smoke. I agree, that it would be totally awesome if you could just keep seeds instead of the mom, but it just doesn't work that way. Never has, never will.
There's an easy way to get your uniform crop of identical twins. We all do it. It's not a secret. You grow out your seeds and pick your favorite plant. Clone it. This is how uniform crops are grown, period. You can't skip the long drawn out process of phenotype selection and get what you're after.
This is exactly why the concept of "pheno hunting" exists at all. Keeping moms can be a really pain in the ass, but a crop of clones from that mom is the only way you're going to have a crop of consistent plants and smoke. I agree, that it would be totally awesome if you could just keep seeds instead of the mom, but it just doesn't work that way. Never has, never will.
There's an easy way to get your uniform crop of identical twins. We all do it. It's not a secret. You grow out your seeds and pick your favorite plant. Clone it. This is how uniform crops are grown, period. You can't skip the long drawn out process of phenotype selection and get what you're after.
hyzerflip
- 322
- 63
So what you're saying is... True IBLs do not exist in cannabis and cannot be purchased anywhere as seed.
Monster762
- 3,270
- 263
First I’ll say I’m on closet level so no big test runs done here. But I think there is a lot of instability in all these crosses now. I got like 6-7 different strains. 4 of which were from known breeders. And only 1 strain I got was actually stable. All the seeds produced very similar plant in growth and bud. One was a bit louder. It’s been cloned. All blueberry s I got were unstable. And from known breeder.
Blotto ogk mosca is the only stable seeds I’ve grown. All 8 ( well 6 of 8 still got 2 ) grew about identical with the same lemon hinted diesel flavor smoke. And thc level probably too but I’ve never attempted to lab nothing. I could litterally mix the buds up n not know what’s what plant. Even smoking side by side. Identical. Except like I said one was louder and finishes in 50-55 days instead of 60-70 still looks identical though.
Blotto ogk mosca is the only stable seeds I’ve grown. All 8 ( well 6 of 8 still got 2 ) grew about identical with the same lemon hinted diesel flavor smoke. And thc level probably too but I’ve never attempted to lab nothing. I could litterally mix the buds up n not know what’s what plant. Even smoking side by side. Identical. Except like I said one was louder and finishes in 50-55 days instead of 60-70 still looks identical though.
JWM2
Premium Member
Supporter
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Oh so fields of Kush in the afghan region used for making hash are planted from clones?
Corn and soybean (and any other crop) fields are planted from clones?
Interesting. Had no idea.
I lived in the middle of farms for years and seen them planting seeds year after year but that must have been just to prepare the land so they can then come in at night when nobody is looking and replace each seed with a clone. That’s diabolical.
You guys sound butt hurt over getting duped by marketing and hype so you come here claiming there are no stable genetics to be found.
I’m saying exactly the opposite. Believe what you want. I’m done with this garbage of a thread. Good luck to the OP. Hope you find what you’re looking for.
Corn and soybean (and any other crop) fields are planted from clones?
Interesting. Had no idea.
I lived in the middle of farms for years and seen them planting seeds year after year but that must have been just to prepare the land so they can then come in at night when nobody is looking and replace each seed with a clone. That’s diabolical.
You guys sound butt hurt over getting duped by marketing and hype so you come here claiming there are no stable genetics to be found.
I’m saying exactly the opposite. Believe what you want. I’m done with this garbage of a thread. Good luck to the OP. Hope you find what you’re looking for.
jumpincactus
Premium Member
Supporter
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- 438
@Vikingvault
The original question the OP was asking was why his grow wasn't homogenous thruout the grow. There has been some good discussion here thus far. To answer the OP's question is, a lot of whats available out there as already mentioned are tent chuckers claiming to be breeders. They aren't working with enough numbers/populations with the work they are doing. A lot of these guyz are in it for the quick buck and aren't putting in the numbers, time and dedication and truly working a line. Locking out undesirable traits and locking down the characteristics they desire. For homogenous offspring a person has to work the line to where it is "true breeding".
If you are keen to breed your own strains of cannabis, then you are going to need to know how to stabilize the seed stock. Stabilizing a strain means it becomes homogeneous, and any seed from that strain will breed true. Classically, landraces are stable. A seed from one plant will grow the same way as another seed from another plant from the same crop.
Stabilizing happens naturally over time with a large enough crop. Climate, day length, altitude, and soil quality all contribute to the genetic makeup of cannabis. Given enough time, strains become homogeneous and breed true every time. For this reason, landraces has been used often for breeding as they have known traits that can be bred into new strains.
Stabilizing your indoor crop at home can be a little more difficult because of a number of factors. Limited numbers of plants means limited seed production. This usually means that the few seeds produced do not represent the complete new genetic diversification.
It is quite possible to produce only unwanted phenotypes in a complete grow. It is also possible that great-looking new phenos contain undesirable traits in the next generation.
The quantity of plants bred from a particular strain can also affect stabilization as well. There is a greater chance of “throwbacks” to earlier strains if there has been a lot of crossbreeding performed in the plant’s history.
Plants bred from only a few known stabilized strains will be more stable in their offspring. This can make the stabilizing process much simpler.
VARIABILITY & PREDICTABILITY
Variability and predictability are the variations in phenotypes and the expected ratio of distribution of different phenotypes. Genetics 101 foresees that breeding with stable parent stock will typically produce predictable results.
Offspring will be distributed relatively evenly across all the seeds in the batch. 25% will be father-dominant, 25% will be mother-dominant, and 50% will be hybrids with combined features.
Remember, this is across all the seeds produced. A random selection of four seeds will not necessarily produce the predicted variations. They may all be of one pheno or another.
This is why breeding on a small scale from a small range of seeds may not produce the variations as predicted. A majority of the seeds need to be planted to observe the predicted variations in phenotypes.
Without genetic assays that can give precise information about the plant’s characteristics, experience plays a big part. Growers rely on look, growth pattern, leaf shape, color, and potency for desired new strains. They select a number of plants for breeding from the same seed batch that have similar characteristics. These plants are interbred, and the plants that resemble the desired strain are bred together again.
Crossbreeding between four selected males and females can produce 10,000 different combinations of the targeted hybrid. These variations can be very subtle, and it is the master eye that distinguishes heroes from zeroes.
STABILITY & BACKCROSSING
It will take several generations to breed a stable new strain. Selective homozygous breeding, or breeding from within the same strain, produces less variations. Brothers crossed with sisters from relatively stable parents produce more predictable results.
Desirable dominant traits can be isolated and undesirable traits are gradually eliminated. Unstable parent stock risks producing heterozygous offspring. There is a risk of greater variation, and undesirable, unpredictable traits can emerge.
Many breeders will backcross with one of the original parents. It is not necessary to backcross to get stable plants—selective breeding will do this over time. However, backcrossing can speed up the stabilization process and reinforce preferred dominant characteristics.
INSTABILITY
The vicissitudes of plant genetics can be seen when driving past any modern food crop. Fields of heavily hybridized and inbred cereal crops, for example, will generally be homogeneous. However, there will always be some freaks that stand out from the crowd.
There is always the corn, wheat, or sorghum stalk that is too tall and takes longer to mature than its contemporaries. Or an atypical plant will grow with unexpected variations. These have expressed recessive genes, and are throwbacks to older styles of crop or attempts by the plant to express a different variant of the genetic combination.
The same occurs with marijuana. A batch of stable hybrid seeds can produce a plant resembling a grandparent or original landrace, the same way a redhead might happen here and there in a family with very few redheads in their genealogy. This is rare and can be an inconvenience or a boon.
A stable genetic like Skunk #1, for example, spontaneously produced the unique Cheese strain with no input from the growers. The particular seed recombined the DNA in a novel way that was outside the expected phenotypic variations. So don’t be bummed if you get some radical variations. You might stumble on the next big thing!
RISKS OF INBREEDING DEPRESSION
Homozygous breeding over a number of generations can refine a new strain splendidly. However, it does have its risks. As with animals, too much inbreeding can cause genetic depression. This is a lack of genetic diversity than can be detrimental to the overall health and sustainability of the strain.
Unwanted alleles that can negatively impact a strain are more likely to be passed on when both parents are carriers. When undesirable characteristics are passed on by both parents, the recessive characteristics become dominant and will be passed on to all subsequent offspring.
Outbreeding can solve these regressive attributes. When the breeding population is small, inbreeding depression can occur more rapidly. This is often a problem in Schedule 1 countries. The law means there simply isn’t the space to generate enough interbreeding stock to select prime examples.
The solution is to introduce a novel father into the gene pool to strengthen the strain by increasing genetic diversity. Within a few generations, the depression will be relieved and plants will regain their genetic vigor.
The original question the OP was asking was why his grow wasn't homogenous thruout the grow. There has been some good discussion here thus far. To answer the OP's question is, a lot of whats available out there as already mentioned are tent chuckers claiming to be breeders. They aren't working with enough numbers/populations with the work they are doing. A lot of these guyz are in it for the quick buck and aren't putting in the numbers, time and dedication and truly working a line. Locking out undesirable traits and locking down the characteristics they desire. For homogenous offspring a person has to work the line to where it is "true breeding".
If you are keen to breed your own strains of cannabis, then you are going to need to know how to stabilize the seed stock. Stabilizing a strain means it becomes homogeneous, and any seed from that strain will breed true. Classically, landraces are stable. A seed from one plant will grow the same way as another seed from another plant from the same crop.
Stabilizing happens naturally over time with a large enough crop. Climate, day length, altitude, and soil quality all contribute to the genetic makeup of cannabis. Given enough time, strains become homogeneous and breed true every time. For this reason, landraces has been used often for breeding as they have known traits that can be bred into new strains.
Stabilizing your indoor crop at home can be a little more difficult because of a number of factors. Limited numbers of plants means limited seed production. This usually means that the few seeds produced do not represent the complete new genetic diversification.
It is quite possible to produce only unwanted phenotypes in a complete grow. It is also possible that great-looking new phenos contain undesirable traits in the next generation.
The quantity of plants bred from a particular strain can also affect stabilization as well. There is a greater chance of “throwbacks” to earlier strains if there has been a lot of crossbreeding performed in the plant’s history.
Plants bred from only a few known stabilized strains will be more stable in their offspring. This can make the stabilizing process much simpler.
VARIABILITY & PREDICTABILITY
Variability and predictability are the variations in phenotypes and the expected ratio of distribution of different phenotypes. Genetics 101 foresees that breeding with stable parent stock will typically produce predictable results.
Offspring will be distributed relatively evenly across all the seeds in the batch. 25% will be father-dominant, 25% will be mother-dominant, and 50% will be hybrids with combined features.
Remember, this is across all the seeds produced. A random selection of four seeds will not necessarily produce the predicted variations. They may all be of one pheno or another.
This is why breeding on a small scale from a small range of seeds may not produce the variations as predicted. A majority of the seeds need to be planted to observe the predicted variations in phenotypes.
Without genetic assays that can give precise information about the plant’s characteristics, experience plays a big part. Growers rely on look, growth pattern, leaf shape, color, and potency for desired new strains. They select a number of plants for breeding from the same seed batch that have similar characteristics. These plants are interbred, and the plants that resemble the desired strain are bred together again.
Crossbreeding between four selected males and females can produce 10,000 different combinations of the targeted hybrid. These variations can be very subtle, and it is the master eye that distinguishes heroes from zeroes.
STABILITY & BACKCROSSING
It will take several generations to breed a stable new strain. Selective homozygous breeding, or breeding from within the same strain, produces less variations. Brothers crossed with sisters from relatively stable parents produce more predictable results.
Desirable dominant traits can be isolated and undesirable traits are gradually eliminated. Unstable parent stock risks producing heterozygous offspring. There is a risk of greater variation, and undesirable, unpredictable traits can emerge.
Many breeders will backcross with one of the original parents. It is not necessary to backcross to get stable plants—selective breeding will do this over time. However, backcrossing can speed up the stabilization process and reinforce preferred dominant characteristics.
INSTABILITY
The vicissitudes of plant genetics can be seen when driving past any modern food crop. Fields of heavily hybridized and inbred cereal crops, for example, will generally be homogeneous. However, there will always be some freaks that stand out from the crowd.
There is always the corn, wheat, or sorghum stalk that is too tall and takes longer to mature than its contemporaries. Or an atypical plant will grow with unexpected variations. These have expressed recessive genes, and are throwbacks to older styles of crop or attempts by the plant to express a different variant of the genetic combination.
The same occurs with marijuana. A batch of stable hybrid seeds can produce a plant resembling a grandparent or original landrace, the same way a redhead might happen here and there in a family with very few redheads in their genealogy. This is rare and can be an inconvenience or a boon.
A stable genetic like Skunk #1, for example, spontaneously produced the unique Cheese strain with no input from the growers. The particular seed recombined the DNA in a novel way that was outside the expected phenotypic variations. So don’t be bummed if you get some radical variations. You might stumble on the next big thing!
RISKS OF INBREEDING DEPRESSION
Homozygous breeding over a number of generations can refine a new strain splendidly. However, it does have its risks. As with animals, too much inbreeding can cause genetic depression. This is a lack of genetic diversity than can be detrimental to the overall health and sustainability of the strain.
Unwanted alleles that can negatively impact a strain are more likely to be passed on when both parents are carriers. When undesirable characteristics are passed on by both parents, the recessive characteristics become dominant and will be passed on to all subsequent offspring.
Outbreeding can solve these regressive attributes. When the breeding population is small, inbreeding depression can occur more rapidly. This is often a problem in Schedule 1 countries. The law means there simply isn’t the space to generate enough interbreeding stock to select prime examples.
The solution is to introduce a novel father into the gene pool to strengthen the strain by increasing genetic diversity. Within a few generations, the depression will be relieved and plants will regain their genetic vigor.
Buzzer777
- 4,053
- 263
Great read @jumpincactus ..Question though..Were you stoned AF when you wrote that? LMFAO
jumpincactus
Premium Member
Supporter
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What is a breeder?
Breeders are professionals that create cannabis strains whose traits stand out for some reason, bringing something new and different to the market. To put it simple, they seek to improve and diversify the existing cannabis strains. The parameters that define the traits that should be enhanced are very subjective though, as they respond to factors such as market demand and the economic profitability of the production process.
The varieties available in today's market are genetic recombinations of other strains created by breeders through selection processes. In that regard, one could say that breeders are the heart of seed banks, for without them there would be no new strains to market.
What makes a good breeder?
Patience: Breeding does not happen overnight, it is a long journey that may involve years of genetic selection procedures, with no guarantee of success. After months, even years of hard work, breeders might well find themselves at an impasse and realise there is no point in getting on with the process. A good breeder is patient and tenacious about his work, accepts defeat humbly and learns from his mistakes.
Discernment: Good breeders know which traits to select. When it comes to large-scale marketing, it is important to find a balance between personal taste and the preferences of consumers.
Sensory acuity: Breeding is done by eye, this is why good breeders should be able to assess the characteristics of plants through the senses. Sight, smell and even touch play a major role in genetic selection, as it is based on these senses that breeders decide which individuals to rule out. While it is true that the laboratories of seed banks such as Dinafem play a key role in today's breeding processes, the good eye of breeders remains an essential tool.
Experience: good breeders are not created overnight, it takes years of hard work to assimilate the necessary knowledge and skills.
What does the breeding process involve?
1. The breeder sets his goal, that is, the 'ideal plant' he wants to obtain, which he uses to select the parents - plants which resemble the ideal he is after as closely as possible.
2. Once he has selected the parental plants according to the desirable traits, he crosses them to obtain the first generation (F1).
3. He assesses the individuals of the F1 and selects the ones that most closely resemble the target plant. 4. The F1 individuals that exhibit the desirable characteristic are either inbred (crossed between them) or backcrossed (crossed with the parents), according to the specific goal.
5. The offspring of the F1, the second generation or F2, is assessed and the individuals with desirable traits are selected and crossed into the F3. The resulting third generation is normally a stable population, although in some cases - with autoflowering strains, for instance - a fourth generation may be necessary to ensure stability.
What do breeders look for when creating a new strain?
Vigour: This feature is one of the most appreciated one by breeders, as vigorous plants tend to grow bigger and produce higher yields.
Adaptability: With cannabis being grown all around the globe and in very disparate environmental conditions, adaptability is definitely something to consider.
Hardiness: Hardiness is the ability of a plant to survive adverse weather conditions such as cold or hot temperatures, humidity and drought.
Resistance to pests and diseases: Just as with hardiness, strains can be bred to be particularly resistant to certain pests and diseases.
Maturity: Controlling the maturity time of plants is a fundamental aspect of cannabis growing. Whether for producing fibre, flowers or seeds, knowing when a plant has reached maturity is key for harvesting.
Calyx-to-leaf ratio: Closely linked to the yield of plants, this is another feature breeders pay close attention to. When assessing this parameter, attention should be given to the colas, that is, the main buds of plants. A calyx-to-leaf ratio of 1:1 is poor, 2:1 is acceptable, 4:1/5:1 is good and 7:1/10:1 is excellent. A good calyx-to-leaf ratio is often synonymous with a good crop - in terms of quantity, not potency - and means less manicuring work.
Flower traits: For obvious reasons, this is one of the most important aspects in breeding, and different factors need to be taken into consideration:
Morphology: A plant's phenotype depends on several factors, such as the environment and the growing conditions. That said, genes play a key role too, morphology being a major point to take into account in breeding.
Size: Determined by the growing conditions, the environment and the genetics, size is something breeders should always bear into account during the breeding process, particularly when creating strains that are well suited to indoor growing. In such cases, Sativa genetics are best avoided, as the resulting plants would grow too big, causing havoc in the grow tent.
Productivity: In today's increasingly competitive market, creating highly productive strains is a major focus for most breeders.
Potency: Although we are experiencing a gradual paradigm shift, increasing the THC levels has been a haunting obsession for breeders in the last decades. More recently, however, many breeding processes focus on increasing the levels of other cannabinoids, such as CBD.
Preliminary planning of breeding
Hybridisation opens the way also for undesirable genes - usually recessive - to form pairs and express their characteristics in the next generation. This is why breeders should clearly define their goals before starting the genetic selection procedure, and ask themselves these questions:
"Bear in mind that in the production of any new plant, selection plays all-important part. First one must get clearly in mind the kind of plant he wants, then breed and select to that end, always choosing through a series of years the plants which are approaching nearest the ideal, and rejecting all others."
-Luther Burbank (In James 1964)
The musts of breeding
Selection: Genetic selection is at the heart of all breeding processes. In the cannabis industry, these are based on Mendelian genetics, that is, on the analysis of the genetic patterns that are expressed in phenotype generation after generation.
Controlled pollination: It is of utmost importance that only the pollen of the parents selected by the breeder for their characteristics passes on the genetic information to the next generation.
Large samples: Obviously, results vary if the genetic selection is made from a large or from a small sample. The best plant out of ten specimens is less likely to differ materially from the rest than the best plant out of 1,000.
Alternatives: Using large samples for genetic selection requires having a big, covered space, plenty of time, dedication and money. Yet not all breeders have so many resources available. This is why many of them resort to early selection as an alternative, as seedlings take up less space than adult specimens and some basic traits such as vigour are already detectable in the first life stage of plants.
Breeding techniques
There is a wide range of methods for creating new strains:
Crossing: Also known as hybridisation, it is the mating of two different strains with special characteristics.
Inbreeding and segregation: It consists in crossing the offspring of the parental plants together, that is, the F1 or first generation, and in selecting the individuals of the resulting F2 that exhibit desirable traits. In short, it is the crossing of the best specimens of a filial generation with their siblings in order to gradually stabilise the desirable traits.
Backcrossing: It is the crossing of the individuals of a sufficiently stable generation with one of the parental plants in order to fix its desirable traits.
Recurrent backcrossing: It involves repeating a backcrossing so as to fix one or various desirable traits.
Trait fixing crossing: It is the crossing of two highly homozygous individuals in order to increase the frequency with which a given trait is expressed in the progeny.
Selfing: It is the self-pollination of a plant with a view to reducing genetic diversity and increasing stability.
Goals of breeding
Breeders are professionals that create cannabis strains whose traits stand out for some reason, bringing something new and different to the market. To put it simple, they seek to improve and diversify the existing cannabis strains. The parameters that define the traits that should be enhanced are very subjective though, as they respond to factors such as market demand and the economic profitability of the production process.
The varieties available in today's market are genetic recombinations of other strains created by breeders through selection processes. In that regard, one could say that breeders are the heart of seed banks, for without them there would be no new strains to market.
What makes a good breeder?
Patience: Breeding does not happen overnight, it is a long journey that may involve years of genetic selection procedures, with no guarantee of success. After months, even years of hard work, breeders might well find themselves at an impasse and realise there is no point in getting on with the process. A good breeder is patient and tenacious about his work, accepts defeat humbly and learns from his mistakes.
Discernment: Good breeders know which traits to select. When it comes to large-scale marketing, it is important to find a balance between personal taste and the preferences of consumers.
Sensory acuity: Breeding is done by eye, this is why good breeders should be able to assess the characteristics of plants through the senses. Sight, smell and even touch play a major role in genetic selection, as it is based on these senses that breeders decide which individuals to rule out. While it is true that the laboratories of seed banks such as Dinafem play a key role in today's breeding processes, the good eye of breeders remains an essential tool.
Experience: good breeders are not created overnight, it takes years of hard work to assimilate the necessary knowledge and skills.
What does the breeding process involve?
1. The breeder sets his goal, that is, the 'ideal plant' he wants to obtain, which he uses to select the parents - plants which resemble the ideal he is after as closely as possible.
2. Once he has selected the parental plants according to the desirable traits, he crosses them to obtain the first generation (F1).
3. He assesses the individuals of the F1 and selects the ones that most closely resemble the target plant. 4. The F1 individuals that exhibit the desirable characteristic are either inbred (crossed between them) or backcrossed (crossed with the parents), according to the specific goal.
5. The offspring of the F1, the second generation or F2, is assessed and the individuals with desirable traits are selected and crossed into the F3. The resulting third generation is normally a stable population, although in some cases - with autoflowering strains, for instance - a fourth generation may be necessary to ensure stability.
What do breeders look for when creating a new strain?
Vigour: This feature is one of the most appreciated one by breeders, as vigorous plants tend to grow bigger and produce higher yields.
Adaptability: With cannabis being grown all around the globe and in very disparate environmental conditions, adaptability is definitely something to consider.
Hardiness: Hardiness is the ability of a plant to survive adverse weather conditions such as cold or hot temperatures, humidity and drought.
Resistance to pests and diseases: Just as with hardiness, strains can be bred to be particularly resistant to certain pests and diseases.
Maturity: Controlling the maturity time of plants is a fundamental aspect of cannabis growing. Whether for producing fibre, flowers or seeds, knowing when a plant has reached maturity is key for harvesting.
Calyx-to-leaf ratio: Closely linked to the yield of plants, this is another feature breeders pay close attention to. When assessing this parameter, attention should be given to the colas, that is, the main buds of plants. A calyx-to-leaf ratio of 1:1 is poor, 2:1 is acceptable, 4:1/5:1 is good and 7:1/10:1 is excellent. A good calyx-to-leaf ratio is often synonymous with a good crop - in terms of quantity, not potency - and means less manicuring work.
Flower traits: For obvious reasons, this is one of the most important aspects in breeding, and different factors need to be taken into consideration:
- Shape
- Calyx size
- Colour
- Cannabinoid amount
- Cannabinoid profile
- Flavour and aroma
- Durability of the aroma and the cannabinoids
- Trichome typology
- Resin quantity and quality
- Resin persistence
- Drying and curing times
Morphology: A plant's phenotype depends on several factors, such as the environment and the growing conditions. That said, genes play a key role too, morphology being a major point to take into account in breeding.
Size: Determined by the growing conditions, the environment and the genetics, size is something breeders should always bear into account during the breeding process, particularly when creating strains that are well suited to indoor growing. In such cases, Sativa genetics are best avoided, as the resulting plants would grow too big, causing havoc in the grow tent.
Productivity: In today's increasingly competitive market, creating highly productive strains is a major focus for most breeders.
Potency: Although we are experiencing a gradual paradigm shift, increasing the THC levels has been a haunting obsession for breeders in the last decades. More recently, however, many breeding processes focus on increasing the levels of other cannabinoids, such as CBD.
Preliminary planning of breeding
Hybridisation opens the way also for undesirable genes - usually recessive - to form pairs and express their characteristics in the next generation. This is why breeders should clearly define their goals before starting the genetic selection procedure, and ask themselves these questions:
- What traits am I looking for?
- What traits am I looking for and have not been expressed in phenotype yet?
- What undesirable traits that should be eliminated do the plants exhibit?
"Bear in mind that in the production of any new plant, selection plays all-important part. First one must get clearly in mind the kind of plant he wants, then breed and select to that end, always choosing through a series of years the plants which are approaching nearest the ideal, and rejecting all others."
-Luther Burbank (In James 1964)
The musts of breeding
Selection: Genetic selection is at the heart of all breeding processes. In the cannabis industry, these are based on Mendelian genetics, that is, on the analysis of the genetic patterns that are expressed in phenotype generation after generation.
Controlled pollination: It is of utmost importance that only the pollen of the parents selected by the breeder for their characteristics passes on the genetic information to the next generation.
Large samples: Obviously, results vary if the genetic selection is made from a large or from a small sample. The best plant out of ten specimens is less likely to differ materially from the rest than the best plant out of 1,000.
Alternatives: Using large samples for genetic selection requires having a big, covered space, plenty of time, dedication and money. Yet not all breeders have so many resources available. This is why many of them resort to early selection as an alternative, as seedlings take up less space than adult specimens and some basic traits such as vigour are already detectable in the first life stage of plants.
Breeding techniques
There is a wide range of methods for creating new strains:
Crossing: Also known as hybridisation, it is the mating of two different strains with special characteristics.
Inbreeding and segregation: It consists in crossing the offspring of the parental plants together, that is, the F1 or first generation, and in selecting the individuals of the resulting F2 that exhibit desirable traits. In short, it is the crossing of the best specimens of a filial generation with their siblings in order to gradually stabilise the desirable traits.
Backcrossing: It is the crossing of the individuals of a sufficiently stable generation with one of the parental plants in order to fix its desirable traits.
Recurrent backcrossing: It involves repeating a backcrossing so as to fix one or various desirable traits.
Trait fixing crossing: It is the crossing of two highly homozygous individuals in order to increase the frequency with which a given trait is expressed in the progeny.
Selfing: It is the self-pollination of a plant with a view to reducing genetic diversity and increasing stability.
Goals of breeding
- Breeding has many different applications and there are several reasons that might prompt breeders to engage in a genetic selection process:
- Improving and/or fixing the traits of a strain: Sometimes the progeny shows a trait that was not expressed in the parental phenotypes, but with the work of breeders it is possible to fix it so as to ensure it is invariably present in the future generations. This is why there are many versions of a same strain available in today's market.
- Creating a new strain: Market requirements urge breeders to be constantly on the lookout for new strains.
- Replicating a lost strain: A tricky task with no guarantee of success whatsoever. If, for whatever reason, the parents of a strain go lost, breeders may decide to gather all the genetic material available and try to replicate the lost genetic combination as accurately as possible. Although results can be very good, without the right lab equipment it is materially impossible to obtain the very same genetics. That said, hard work, repetition and lots of selection can lead to over 90% accuracy. It won't be the same genetics, but it will be close.
- Creating strains that are suited to different environments: Thanks to the great adaptability of the plant, cannabis is grown all around the globe, with millions of growers having the possibility to harvest excellent crops. In that regard, breeders can create strains that, because of their genetic characteristics, are better suited to certain environmental conditions than others.
jumpincactus
Premium Member
Supporter
- 11,609
- 438
I sir am always stoned as fokk!!!!! :p Is there any other way to be
M
motz
- 645
- 143
The 79 Xmas Bud, watch who you get it from, a certain vendor is selling them but are not the real deal.
You can get the real deal for free if you look around.
My ak47 f2 and the f3's are all identical the Flo's of DJ's I ran were the same and stable.
Of course my ak's are all out of one of the first releases.
You can get the real deal for free if you look around.
My ak47 f2 and the f3's are all identical the Flo's of DJ's I ran were the same and stable.
Of course my ak's are all out of one of the first releases.
hyzerflip
- 322
- 63
Man, it's weird how all of these supposed landrace / IBL varieties are completely unavailable in seed form, despite the fact that it'd be trivial to reproduce them once they were obtained by anyone.
Monster762
- 3,270
- 263
there are a lot of people in it for the money now. Especially with legalization spreading in USA. (Demand rising rapidly) No matter what they’re putting out theysell out.
Prep work is on us the consumer(unfortunately)
Just research. Spend time. Look at reviews n weed through the fake chit. If no reviews consider it untested. Usually breeders that been around longer are more true about what they do. And will be more stable (unless a new cross , always a roll of dice til tested )
All the new pop up hot crosses are a roll of the dice. Until others ran em.
A lot of times seed to seed will vary but I get the point here if it’s stable stable they should be very similar at least , every seed.
Good breeder actually runs the strains over n over. Tests weaknesses. And makes em stable.
Majorly overlooked
Most good breeders will actually tell you the conditions of the breed environment too. That does become a part of the genetics.
When you take something that’s been run over n over with certain environment it’s offspring expect that environment.
You change it n there goes stability.right from the beginning. (Not in the seed itself it might be all good )
but in the grow all together.
Sometimes (especially with new growers popping up everywhere like me) we mistake instability in the seed for instability in our grow. I have.
But again there are bs breeders chucking white seeds just to get money. Big money too.
Prep work is on us the consumer(unfortunately)
Just research. Spend time. Look at reviews n weed through the fake chit. If no reviews consider it untested. Usually breeders that been around longer are more true about what they do. And will be more stable (unless a new cross , always a roll of dice til tested )
All the new pop up hot crosses are a roll of the dice. Until others ran em.
A lot of times seed to seed will vary but I get the point here if it’s stable stable they should be very similar at least , every seed.
Good breeder actually runs the strains over n over. Tests weaknesses. And makes em stable.
Majorly overlooked
Most good breeders will actually tell you the conditions of the breed environment too. That does become a part of the genetics.
When you take something that’s been run over n over with certain environment it’s offspring expect that environment.
You change it n there goes stability.right from the beginning. (Not in the seed itself it might be all good )
but in the grow all together.
Sometimes (especially with new growers popping up everywhere like me) we mistake instability in the seed for instability in our grow. I have.
But again there are bs breeders chucking white seeds just to get money. Big money too.
the rrock
- 1,409
- 263
ya just gotta know the right person or be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time,they are out there
hyzerflip
- 322
- 63
It's weird how this thing that supposedly exists and is virtually free to reproduce infinitely cannot be found anywhere unless you 'know the right person' at the 'right time'.
I will continue to call BS on the concept of IBL / landrace cultivars in cannabis. There is nowhere these mythical seeds can actually be purchased, yet everyone continues to claim they exist.
Rootbound
Supporter
- 2,634
- 263
Well said, they are out there for sure. People have to keep in mind that lots of folks who grow do not use the internet for anything canna related and would never sell seeds. I know of several around my area.
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