USDA Hemp Program, how easy would it be for a small grower with 2-4 plants to register and fly under the radar?

[WhatWouldBobDo]

I live in an unfriendly state, and deal with a ton of anxiety. Growing is very risky for me, which makes my anxiety worse.

My state had a hemp program, but a few years back abandoned it, and turned it over to the USDA. I've been wondering if applying for a USDA license for hemp would be a viable option to go "legit", at less risk and considerably less anxiety.

Reading up on it, it looks like there is no license cost. Just background check and fingerprints, and GPS coordinates for the acreage or square footage of the grow. Then pay to have anything grown tested prior to harvest. Seems fairly inexpensive.

Checking the USDA website it looks like there are ~800 current license holders in my state (individuals and businesses) and ~22 in my city (of about 300k). So it doesn't look like they're holding back on processing applications.

Mainly, I'd like to grow for personal consumption. But, if I can get a system down I may be interested in investigating the economics of growing CBD or THCa for the local dispensaries, or if my state eventually goes medical/recreational, having a license now seems like it only gives me options moving forward.

But, I don't know if the USDA would process an application that said a "15 square foot grow space", or if the bureaucracy is really unreasonable, or if it would be worse if I was licensed and didn't declare I grew or tested anything for 6-12 months (as I mainly want the license for peace of mind that I'm growing legally, less so about having test results to sell currently). I've so far avoided calling/emailing the USDA or Ag Extension Office because I'd prefer not to put my name/info out there in the event I dont get a hemp license but do get over my anxiety and end up growing illegally (as asking permission first and being told no goes against one of the central pillars of the "no sell, no smell, *no tell*" policy).

Anyone on a small scale been through the application and licensing process? Any advice/insights/suggestions? Is it worth it?

 

[Phyto]

My guess is you won’t fly under the radar. There are very specific tests that need to done on a regular basis, inspections, samples submitted, you pay for the testing at $250/test. If you go over the THC %limit, your grow will be toast. If you’re growing for other than CBD, it’s probably not going to work.

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

So here's what I'm seeing:

- the USDA license is supposed to be a "shall issue" license. There is no application fee. Submit background check, fingerprints, gps of grow location, and application and on 30 days they're supposed to issue the license, valid for 3 years.

- the license doesn't require you to buy seeds/clones from anywhere. It does require you to file an annual report, and test everything before harvest through a third party, at $50-250 a test, destroying everything over 0.3% THC. Local extension office aid there are "several dozen" testing agencies in the state that are "very friendly" whatever that means.

- the license doesn't distinguish between hemp, "THCa" weed, or CBD weed. As long as it's 0.3% THC, it's fine.

- the license authorizes you to grow. So if you get "caught" in a grow, you're not violating a law. Once youre in possession post harvest, as long as you have test results (yours or someone else's) saying what you have is below 0.3% THC, you're also not violating a law.

- so, the license would authorize you to just have a few mothers, and not flower anything if you didn't want to. It would also authorize you to flower once every six or 9 months, save the rest results, and whatever you've got in possession should be legal. Or do harvest every week if that's what you want.

- the USDA *can* audit you, with a site visit, once every three years. But, with thousands of licensed locations, and budget cuts, that's iffy. If you're found not in compliance, it's not a violation of any law. You just have to follow their corrective actions plan to get in compliance. From what I saw, most are paperwork errors.

- local law enforcement *can* have access to the website that shows where the licensed grow sites are. I don't have any more information than this.


Now, what I don't know, is will the USDA make it hell for you, or local LEO, once you're "on the radar". I'm assuming not, as 800 people in NC alone are licensed and no one is turning licenses in.

What I also don't know, is if the state will choose to further regulate in the future. If they do, your name is already out there.

My biggest issue right now is I can't find "legal" stuff (THCa or CBD) that doesn't make me sick and helps my condition. The stuff I can buy in legal dispensaries is not medical either, and requires driving cross state lines, not ideal. My anxiety gives me big issues with an "under the radar" grow plan. If this license is legit and not a pain, for ~$1k a year and a paper report, it seems like an easy and no brainer way to legally grow. I'd legally be allowed to sell anything I grew (I wouldn't, but could), and it would give me a massive foot forward if my state eventually goes medical or recreational. If it doesn't work like I think, I can just surrender the license. My name will be "on the radar", but alone isn't enough to cause a warrant or something if I got over the nerves to grow later.

But idk if there's more to this that I don't see. I was hoping to pick the brain of someone that has some this. But, I have call set up for later this week with a current license holder. Hopefully I'll get some more info.

 

[Week4Bytch]

So here's what I'm seeing:

- the USDA license is supposed to be a "shall issue" license. There is no application fee. Submit background check, fingerprints, gps of grow location, and application and on 30 days they're supposed to issue the license, valid for 3 years.

- the license doesn't require you to buy seeds/clones from anywhere. It does require you to file an annual report, and test everything before harvest through a third party, at $50-250 a test, destroying everything over 0.3% THC. Local extension office aid there are "several dozen" testing agencies in the state that are "very friendly" whatever that means.

- the license doesn't distinguish between hemp, "THCa" weed, or CBD weed. As long as it's 0.3% THC, it's fine.

- the license authorizes you to grow. So if you get "caught" in a grow, you're not violating a law. Once youre in possession post harvest, as long as you have test results (yours or someone else's) saying what you have is below 0.3% THC, you're also not violating a law.

- so, the license would authorize you to just have a few mothers, and not flower anything if you didn't want to. It would also authorize you to flower once every six or 9 months, save the rest results, and whatever you've got in possession should be legal. Or do harvest every week if that's what you want.

- the USDA *can* audit you, with a site visit, once every three years. But, with thousands of licensed locations, and budget cuts, that's iffy. If you're found not in compliance, it's not a violation of any law. You just have to follow their corrective actions plan to get in compliance. From what I saw, most are paperwork errors.

- local law enforcement *can* have access to the website that shows where the licensed grow sites are. I don't have any more information than this.


Now, what I don't know, is will the USDA make it hell for you, or local LEO, once you're "on the radar". I'm assuming not, as 800 people in NC alone are licensed and no one is turning licenses in.

What I also don't know, is if the state will choose to further regulate in the future. If they do, your name is already out there.

My biggest issue right now is I can't find "legal" stuff (THCa or CBD) that doesn't make me sick and helps my condition. The stuff I can buy in legal dispensaries is not medical either, and requires driving cross state lines, not ideal. My anxiety gives me big issues with an "under the radar" grow plan. If this license is legit and not a pain, for ~$1k a year and a paper report, it seems like an easy and no brainer way to legally grow. I'd legally be allowed to sell anything I grew (I wouldn't, but could), and it would give me a massive foot forward if my state eventually goes medical or recreational. If it doesn't work like I think, I can just surrender the license. My name will be "on the radar", but alone isn't enough to cause a warrant or something if I got over the nerves to grow later.

But idk if there's more to this that I don't see. I was hoping to pick the brain of someone that has some this. But, I have call set up for later this week with a current license holder. Hopefully I'll get some more info.

Keep us posted please.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Sorry posted wrong thread

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

Update.

I spent a few hours today researching, going through USDA and state information, and talking to ag extension agents. I tried to talk to the USDA, but didn’t get anyone. I then started cold calling some current license holders, hoping I could find someone who would give me the down low and skinny. Most were unavailable, or really unwilling to help. I did alot of investigating, and eventually found someone who owns a hydroponic store. He was by far the most helpful.

Anyway, here’s what I’ve gathered. My state used to have an industrial hemp program, started in 2018. Under the state program, there were 11 inspectors that were going across the state keeping the program up. Application costs were high, testing was random and strict, licenses were sparse, and surprise inspections were frequent. It was a nightmare. In 2022 the state abandoned the program. I’m assuming because they had like 8 license holders and 11 inspectors. Anyway, when they discontinued the program, it reverted to the USDA program.

The USDA program is incredibly relaxed.

The program is very much as described on their website. A simple, no cost application, three year license. One current license holder told me that you get a site visit from the USDA six months after you get your license, but it isn’t a surprise. They schedule it in advance. It’s more of a meet and greet, and takes about an hour. They don’t really need to see anything either. One person just had a light and a tent, no grow going on, during the visit. USDA didn’t care. After that, none of the license holders are aware of anyone else getting a site visit, inspection, audit, or inquiry by any federal, state or local agency, including the USDA or any LEO.

You’re supposed to register with your county’s ag department (FSA) once you get your license, with GPS coordinates. Then you’re supposed to inform them of when you are going to grow, when you’re going to harvest, and upload test results. If you decide to terminate early, you’re supposed to file a notice of destruction. If you fail to file a notice, you could get a non-compliance report, but they usually just work to get you into compliance.

As far as whether it’s a THCa loophole . . . maybe . . . probably not. The program was designed for industrial hemp, and extends to CBD, CBG, CBN. If you want to take a plant to flower, it just needs to test below 0.3%. You test it, and then you must harvest within 30 days. If you’re growing CBD or industrial hemp, it’s not really a big deal. But the hydro store owner said that most of the “modern” stuff really won’t test below 0.3%. It’s possible, if you test when you get your first pistil. But even then it’s iffy, and you’re still supposed to harvest in 30 days (before it’s ready). It really depends on the tester, who is not a USDA employee, and wants the test to pass. If you get a failed test, you get points on your license, and if you get so many you get follow up calls or something.

Which is a little confusing to me. If I go to a dispensary, the weed they have there tests at 0.2-0.3% THC. So I don’t know why, 30 days before harvest, any other plant would test higher than that. But, I also don’t want to grow some Thai stuff and have a tester come in and report to the USDA that it’s 5% THC and have a mark and need to destroy it all. I assume the hydro store guy knew what he was talking about though. So, maybe I need to test my own stuff (not part of the USDA testing program) and see what it comes back at.

The guy said that most people will use it to grow CBD. Some people will grow CBD and over in the back room grow THC (and not get it tested). Some people will alternate between CBD and THC and just “forget” to file the paperwork on the THC grow. Some people will file the paperwork as if they’re going to grow, and then just “terminate” the grow early. One guy told me to do that once, take pictures of you destroying the crop, then save the photos in the event someone asks for evidence. Although no one has ever asked for evidence (yet).

The pros of the program, you can grow and no one, even the DEA, can do anything about it. If you’re caught stepping outside the guidelines of the program, they give you like 30 days to get compliant or something.

The cons of the program, for one no one knows what will happen going forward. If they reschedule cannabis as a Schedule III drug, it has to be grown by a medical provider, so all licenses may get suspended. Or the state may decide to revive a program. But, worst case you can just surrender your license. You’re “on the radar” at that point, but with thousands of people on the radar it’s not really going to mean much.

One person mentioned they thought they weren’t issuing any more licenses. They thought they were done. But I don’t see that anywhere.

 

[Week4Bytch]

If I'm reading this right, THC under 5% is a tuff one. 15% is considering average... But 5% that's a tough pill to swallow. This is just to grow at home for yourself? You walk into a dispensary here in California and hardly anything is below 20%(on the label), most likely marketing hype.

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

If I'm reading this right, THC under 5% is a tuff one. 15% is considering average... But 5% that's a tough pill to swallow. This is just to grow at home for yourself? You walk into a dispensary here in California and hardly anything is below 20%(on the label), most likely marketing hype.

Technically speaking, all of the stuff you buy in your dispensary in California is under 1% THC. It’s the THCa that you’re talking about.

The Farm Bill legalized hemp. To set a standard between hemp and pot, the Farm Bill designated any cannabis with less than 0.3% ∆9 THC as hemp. But, the plant doesn’t naturally produce ∆9 THC in sizeable quantities (hemp or pot). It produces THCa in sizeable quantities. You decarb THCa (by adding heat) and it converts to ∆9 THC. Some of the THCa will naturally convert to ∆9 THC, but it isn’t usually more than 1%.

Look at the label on the flower at your local dispensary. The one I last saw in NJ said “THCa: 28.95% . . . ∆9 THC: 0.89%"

That is the loop hole that people are using to legally sell THCa through the internet in prohibition states. As long as it tests below 0.3% THC (regardless of how much THCa it has) it’s legal under the farm bill.

I believe when I test under the USDA program, I have to test for ∆9 THC, not THCa. If I have to test for total THC, there’s no way anything will ever pass that test. If I test it 30 days before harvest, the THC level should be much less than it would be at harvest (because your THCa content will double or triple in 30 days, and I’m assuming your THC would too). IDK how much less though. Probably still above 0.3% if the hydro guy is right (I have no reason to believe he’s wrong). But it should be close. If it is over, I’m wondering how all the THCa dealers are getting their product to test below 0.3% THC but still advertise 29% THCa.

I’m thinking that I’m going to start growing CBD and CBG strains (Type III and Type IV). Those are compliant under the Farm Bill anyway. Then mix in some Type I or Type II strains, but instead of testing under the USDA, I may test personally and see what it comes back at. If it’s testing at 0.5%+ THC, then I’ll know there’s nothing I can do, and I can “destroy” the test plants as being non-compliant (although you can always say you destroyed it for research purposes). If it’s testing at 0.25% THC or something, then I know I’ve got a shot, if I find the right tester at the right time with the right strain, to legally grow THCa.

 

[Week4Bytch]

Technically speaking, all of the stuff you buy in your dispensary in California is under 1% THC. It’s the THCa that you’re talking about.

The Farm Bill legalized hemp. To set a standard between hemp and pot, the Farm Bill designated any cannabis with less than 0.3% ∆9 THC as hemp. But, the plant doesn’t naturally produce ∆9 THC in sizeable quantities (hemp or pot). It produces THCa in sizeable quantities. You decarb THCa (by adding heat) and it converts to ∆9 THC. Some of the THCa will naturally convert to ∆9 THC, but it isn’t usually more than 1%.

Look at the label on the flower at your local dispensary. The one I last saw in NJ said “THCa: 28.95% . . . ∆9 THC: 0.89%"

That is the loop hole that people are using to legally sell THCa through the internet in prohibition states. As long as it tests below 0.3% THC (regardless of how much THCa it has) it’s legal under the farm bill.

I believe when I test under the USDA program, I have to test for ∆9 THC, not THCa. If I have to test for total THC, there’s no way anything will ever pass that test. If I test it 30 days before harvest, the THC level should be much less than it would be at harvest (because your THCa content will double or triple in 30 days, and I’m assuming your THC would too). IDK how much less though. Probably still above 0.3% if the hydro guy is right (I have no reason to believe he’s wrong). But it should be close. If it is over, I’m wondering how all the THCa dealers are getting their product to test below 0.3% THC but still advertise 29% THCa.

I’m thinking that I’m going to start growing CBD and CBG strains (Type III and Type IV). Those are compliant under the Farm Bill anyway. Then mix in some Type I or Type II strains, but instead of testing under the USDA, I may test personally and see what it comes back at. If it’s testing at 0.5%+ THC, then I’ll know there’s nothing I can do, and I can “destroy” the test plants as being non-compliant (although you can always say you destroyed it for research purposes). If it’s testing at 0.25% THC or something, then I know I’ve got a shot, if I find the right tester at the right time with the right strain, to legally grow THCa.

Interesting stuff .. thanks. I had to look it up but you laid it down better than what I could find on Google.

 

[RealFarmer]

I live in an unfriendly state, and deal with a ton of anxiety. Growing is very risky for me, which makes my anxiety worse.

My state had a hemp program, but a few years back abandoned it, and turned it over to the USDA. I've been wondering if applying for a USDA license for hemp would be a viable option to go "legit", at less risk and considerably less anxiety.

Reading up on it, it looks like there is no license cost. Just background check and fingerprints, and GPS coordinates for the acreage or square footage of the grow. Then pay to have anything grown tested prior to harvest. Seems fairly inexpensive.

Checking the USDA website it looks like there are ~800 current license holders in my state (individuals and businesses) and ~22 in my city (of about 300k). So it doesn't look like they're holding back on processing applications.

Mainly, I'd like to grow for personal consumption. But, if I can get a system down I may be interested in investigating the economics of growing CBD or THCa for the local dispensaries, or if my state eventually goes medical/recreational, having a license now seems like it only gives me options moving forward.

But, I don't know if the USDA would process an application that said a "15 square foot grow space", or if the bureaucracy is really unreasonable, or if it would be worse if I was licensed and didn't declare I grew or tested anything for 6-12 months (as I mainly want the license for peace of mind that I'm growing legally, less so about having test results to sell currently). I've so far avoided calling/emailing the USDA or Ag Extension Office because I'd prefer not to put my name/info out there in the event I dont get a hemp license but do get over my anxiety and end up growing illegally (as asking permission first and being told no goes against one of the central pillars of the "no sell, no smell, *no tell*" policy).

Anyone on a small scale been through the application and licensing process? Any advice/insights/suggestions? Is it worth it?

My state has a 1000 plant minimum in order to be a cultivator

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

My state has a 1000 plant minimum in order to be a cultivator

My state had a similar plant minimum requirement. They also had a “minimum acreage” requirement. I’m presuming this was an attempt to restrict licenses, and keep growers out of cities. In reality it just narrowed the pool to wealthy people who were willing to invest big money into it. Such is life.

I knew someone who had a license under the state plan. They gave it up after two years. He told me that there was just no way to make money doing it.

I’m assuming that’s one of the reasons my state abandoned their plan.

But, under the USDA program (which is active in 11 states, and some tribal lands) there is no plant maximum or minimum, and no acreage requirement.

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

So I’ve been digging a little bit further, and I think I’m getting myself more confused.

In looking at what the THC levels need to test at, it needs to be under 0.3%. If you test above 0.3% but below 1.0%, it’s considered a “negligent violation”. That requires you to destroy or remediate the crop that was tested. You can only get one “negligent violation” per calendar year, but if you get three “negligent violations” within a 5 year time period, your cultivation license is revoked. If the crop tests above 1.0%, USDA can consider it a “negligent violation” or they can consider it a “culpable violation”. “Culpable violations” would also include any conditions that the USDA believes has a culpable mental state to violate the law, including growing illegal cannabis. “Culpable violations” are supposed to be reported to the US Attorney General and the Chief LEO of the state.

I think that’s really interesting, because the people I talked to in the program didn’t mention any of this. They said it was “super relaxed” and he wasn’t aware of anyone getting a citation or anything.

I originally assumed it was because the tests on crops were looking at “∆9-THC” and excluding THCa. But it appears the “Total THC” needs to be below 0.3%, and the USDA is considering ∆9-THC along with 87.7% of THCa to add up to “Total THC”. It’s very possible that the people that are performing the tests aren’t decarboxilating the flower, or otherwise attempting to exclude non-∆9-THC from the test. I also know they extended the deadline to harvest post-test from 15 days to 30 days, and increased the “negligence” level from 0.5% to 1.0%. Both were because people were having a hard time maintaining compliance under the old levels. I know if you test 30 days pre-harvest (or even if you “forget” to harvest until 45 days post harvest), your THC levels will be significantly lower. I don’t know how low though.

But if that’s correct, there shouldn’t be any legal way to grow THCa flower that’s being sold online in any hemp state. Which seems like a contradiction. Because THCa is excluded from the definition of hemp to make it legal to possess, but it’s included in the definition for legality purposes to grow it. So you can’t grow it (or, more importantly the test sample can’t show it at the time of sampling), but you can buy/sell/own it.

I’ll need to talk to some people to get more information.

To make matters even more confusing, I’m having a hard time finding a “CBD” or “CBG” seed source that I can confirm would meet the USDA requirements. I reached out to four companies, and none have responded. The Ag Extension office suggested three, http://trilogeneseeds.com, https://www.trianglehemp.com/, and https://www.cbdseedlabs.com, but none will actually respond if some of the seeds they offer would work. Trilogene and Triangle Hemp produce “THCa” seeds and “CBD” seeds. THCa seeds are illegal to produce in NC, as they’re under the USDA program. I don’t know how they’re doing it. And, I don’t know what seeds they provide would test below the limit. And they aren’t answering. I also reached out to http://hokuseedco.com, who likewise has not responded.

It seems like a pretty high standard, to test below 0.3%, when I can’t find seed that I’m sure would actually test below that level.

But, I’m not expecting license holders to be able to legally produce dispensary quality weed. Although, there may be testing loopholes to accomplish this. I would expect a license holder to (a) be able to grow quality CBD and CBG flower, as this appears to be the purpose of the program, and (b) to be able to maintain any number or level of mother plants, and test growing methods, even if you don’t harvest anything through the USDA program. As a license holder would not be found to be illegally growing cannabis, and once it’s harvested if the THC level is below 0.3% it would be legal under the Farm Bill (regardless of it’s THCa requirement). Which would essentially let a license holder grow anything they want, for research purposes, then destroy (not harvest) the flower, and subsequently go out and “buy” THCa flower from a store. As long as you have the report showing you destroyed the grown hemp, and the COA for the purchased THCa flower, you’re legal.

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

I guess, also, if anyone knows of a source of CBD and CBG seeds, that would test below the 0.3% threshold, I’m all ears.

Alternatively, if anyone knows someone at one of the above linked growers, and can have them reach out to me, that would be fantastic.

Some of them, like this one (https://trilogeneseeds.com/products/ultra-pink) lists “pre harvest” THCa at 0.18% (and post harvest at 0.4%) which would make it compliant. But I’d like confirmation that my understanding is correct, rather than grow something that tests at 2% and I get a culpable violation. Other ones, (like https://www.trianglehemp.com/shop/seeds/gooseberry/) don’t have any information, but were listed by the ag extension office as a suitable source, and other ones (like https://hokuseedco.com/shop#!/La-Berna-F/p/197222371) have test results showing they’re below 0.3% Total THC, so I would assume are compliant. But if I can’t get them to tell me they are, I’m not sure how much sense it makes to trust blindly.

 

[RealFarmer]

My state had a similar plant minimum requirement. They also had a “minimum acreage” requirement. I’m presuming this was an attempt to restrict licenses, and keep growers out of cities. In reality it just narrowed the pool to wealthy people who were willing to invest big money into it. Such is life.

I knew someone who had a license under the state plan. They gave it up after two years. He told me that there was just no way to make money doing it.

I’m assuming that’s one of the reasons my state abandoned their plan.

But, under the USDA program (which is active in 11 states, and some tribal lands) there is no plant maximum or minimum, and no acreage requirement.

We did it for a few years. Your friend is correct. There is no money to be had in growing cbd.

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

We did it for a few years. Your friend is correct. There is no money to be had in growing cbd.

I've read quite a few feasibility studies, and it's interesting considering the value of CBD flower can fluctuate from $2-40 a pound.

It also makes sense why what's available on the market is just absolute trash. Regulatory cost is high, production cost is high, and return is low. So it's a race to the bottom.

If you are in a prohibition state, and grew CBD for a few years but have it up, what did you move on to?

 

[RealFarmer]

I've read quite a few feasibility studies, and it's interesting considering the value of CBD flower can fluctuate from $2-40 a pound.

It also makes sense why what's available on the market is just absolute trash. Regulatory cost is high, production cost is high, and return is low. So it's a race to the bottom.

If you are in a prohibition state, and grew CBD for a few years but have it up, what did you move on to?

Moved back to concrete actually lol

 

[Markjobs2020]

I live in an unfriendly state, and deal with a ton of anxiety. Growing is very risky for me, which makes my anxiety worse.

My state had a hemp program, but a few years back abandoned it, and turned it over to the USDA. I've been wondering if applying for a USDA license for hemp would be a viable option to go "legit", at less risk and considerably less anxiety.

Reading up on it, it looks like there is no license cost. Just background check and fingerprints, and GPS coordinates for the acreage or square footage of the grow. Then pay to have anything grown tested prior to harvest. Seems fairly inexpensive.

Checking the USDA website it looks like there are ~800 current license holders in my state (individuals and businesses) and ~22 in my city (of about 300k). So it doesn't look like they're holding back on processing applications.

Mainly, I'd like to grow for personal consumption. But, if I can get a system down I may be interested in investigating the economics of growing CBD or THCa for the local dispensaries, or if my state eventually goes medical/recreational, having a license now seems like it only gives me options moving forward.

But, I don't know if the USDA would process an application that said a "15 square foot grow space", or if the bureaucracy is really unreasonable, or if it would be worse if I was licensed and didn't declare I grew or tested anything for 6-12 months (as I mainly want the license for peace of mind that I'm growing legally, less so about having test results to sell currently). I've so far avoided calling/emailing the USDA or Ag Extension Office because I'd prefer not to put my name/info out there in the event I dont get a hemp license but do get over my anxiety and end up growing illegally (as asking permission first and being told no goes against one of the central pillars of the "no sell, no smell, *no tell*" policy).

Anyone on a small scale been through the application and licensing process? Any advice/insights/suggestions? Is it worth it?

Try asking someone local who's got a licence for advice surely they could point you in the right direction

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

Moved back to concrete actually lol

The original stoned.

 

[katraiter]

Update.

I spent a few hours today researching, going through USDA and state information, and talking to ag extension agents. I tried to talk to the USDA, but didn’t get anyone. I then started cold calling some current license holders, hoping I could find someone who would give me the down low and skinny. Most were unavailable, or really unwilling to help. I did alot of investigating, and eventually found someone who owns a hydroponic store. He was by far the most helpful.

Anyway, here’s what I’ve gathered. My state used to have an industrial hemp program, started in 2018. Under the state program, there were 11 inspectors that were going across the state keeping the program up. Application costs were high, testing was random and strict, licenses were sparse, and surprise inspections were frequent. It was a nightmare. In 2022 the state abandoned the program. I’m assuming because they had like 8 license holders and 11 inspectors. Anyway, when they discontinued the program, it reverted to the USDA program.

The USDA program is incredibly relaxed.

The program is very much as described on their website. A simple, no cost application, three year license. One current license holder told me that you get a site visit from the USDA six months after you get your license, but it isn’t a surprise. They schedule it in advance. It’s more of a meet and greet, and takes about an hour. They don’t really need to see anything either. One person just had a light and a tent, no grow going on, during the visit. USDA didn’t care. After that, none of the license holders are aware of anyone else getting a site visit, inspection, audit, or inquiry by any federal, state or local agency, including the USDA or any LEO.

You’re supposed to register with your county’s ag department (FSA) once you get your license, with GPS coordinates. Then you’re supposed to inform them of when you are going to grow, when you’re going to harvest, and upload test results. If you decide to terminate early, you’re supposed to file a notice of destruction. If you fail to file a notice, you could get a non-compliance report, but they usually just work to get you into compliance.

As far as whether it’s a THCa loophole . . . maybe . . . probably not. The program was designed for industrial hemp, and extends to CBD, CBG, CBN. If you want to take a plant to flower, it just needs to test below 0.3%. You test it, and then you must harvest within 30 days. If you’re growing CBD or industrial hemp, it’s not really a big deal. But the hydro store owner said that most of the “modern” stuff really won’t test below 0.3%. It’s possible, if you test when you get your first pistil. But even then it’s iffy, and you’re still supposed to harvest in 30 days (before it’s ready). It really depends on the tester, who is not a USDA employee, and wants the test to pass. If you get a failed test, you get points on your license, and if you get so many you get follow up calls or something.

Which is a little confusing to me. If I go to a dispensary, the weed they have there tests at 0.2-0.3% THC. So I don’t know why, 30 days before harvest, any other plant would test higher than that. But, I also don’t want to grow some Thai stuff and have a tester come in and report to the USDA that it’s 5% THC and have a mark and need to destroy it all. I assume the hydro store guy knew what he was talking about though. So, maybe I need to test my own stuff (not part of the USDA testing program) and see what it comes back at.

The guy said that most people will use it to grow CBD. Some people will grow CBD and over in the back room grow THC (and not get it tested). Some people will alternate between CBD and THC and just “forget” to file the paperwork on the THC grow. Some people will file the paperwork as if they’re going to grow, and then just “terminate” the grow early. One guy told me to do that once, take pictures of you destroying the crop, then save the photos in the event someone asks for evidence. Although no one has ever asked for evidence (yet).

The pros of the program, you can grow and no one, even the DEA, can do anything about it. If you’re caught stepping outside the guidelines of the program, they give you like 30 days to get compliant or something.

The cons of the program, for one no one knows what will happen going forward. If they reschedule cannabis as a Schedule III drug, it has to be grown by a medical provider, so all licenses may get suspended. Or the state may decide to revive a program. But, worst case you can just surrender your license. You’re “on the radar” at that point, but with thousands of people on the radar it’s not really going to mean much.

One person mentioned they thought they weren’t issuing any more licenses. They thought they were done. But I don’t see that an

Update.

I spent a few hours today researching, going through USDA and state information, and talking to ag extension agents. I tried to talk to the USDA, but didn’t get anyone. I then started cold calling some current license holders, hoping I could find someone who would give me the down low and skinny. Most were unavailable, or really unwilling to help. I did alot of investigating, and eventually found someone who owns a hydroponic store. He was by far the most helpful.

Anyway, here’s what I’ve gathered. My state used to have an industrial hemp program, started in 2018. Under the state program, there were 11 inspectors that were going across the state keeping the program up. Application costs were high, testing was random and strict, licenses were sparse, and surprise inspections were frequent. It was a nightmare. In 2022 the state abandoned the program. I’m assuming because they had like 8 license holders and 11 inspectors. Anyway, when they discontinued the program, it reverted to the USDA program.

The USDA program is incredibly relaxed.

The program is very much as described on their website. A simple, no cost application, three year license. One current license holder told me that you get a site visit from the USDA six months after you get your license, but it isn’t a surprise. They schedule it in advance. It’s more of a meet and greet, and takes about an hour. They don’t really need to see anything either. One person just had a light and a tent, no grow going on, during the visit. USDA didn’t care. After that, none of the license holders are aware of anyone else getting a site visit, inspection, audit, or inquiry by any federal, state or local agency, including the USDA or any LEO.

You’re supposed to register with your county’s ag department (FSA) once you get your license, with GPS coordinates. Then you’re supposed to inform them of when you are going to grow, when you’re going to harvest, and upload test results. If you decide to terminate early, you’re supposed to file a notice of destruction. If you fail to file a notice, you could get a non-compliance report, but they usually just work to get you into compliance.

As far as whether it’s a THCa loophole . . . maybe . . . probably not. The program was designed for industrial hemp, and extends to CBD, CBG, CBN. If you want to take a plant to flower, it just needs to test below 0.3%. You test it, and then you must harvest within 30 days. If you’re growing CBD or industrial hemp, it’s not really a big deal. But the hydro store owner said that most of the “modern” stuff really won’t test below 0.3%. It’s possible, if you test when you get your first pistil. But even then it’s iffy, and you’re still supposed to harvest in 30 days (before it’s ready). It really depends on the tester, who is not a USDA employee, and wants the test to pass. If you get a failed test, you get points on your license, and if you get so many you get follow up calls or something.

Which is a little confusing to me. If I go to a dispensary, the weed they have there tests at 0.2-0.3% THC. So I don’t know why, 30 days before harvest, any other plant would test higher than that. But, I also don’t want to grow some Thai stuff and have a tester come in and report to the USDA that it’s 5% THC and have a mark and need to destroy it all. I assume the hydro store guy knew what he was talking about though. So, maybe I need to test my own stuff (not part of the USDA testing program) and see what it comes back at.

The guy said that most people will use it to grow CBD. Some people will grow CBD and over in the back room grow THC (and not get it tested). Some people will alternate between CBD and THC and just “forget” to file the paperwork on the THC grow. Some people will file the paperwork as if they’re going to grow, and then just “terminate” the grow early. One guy told me to do that once, take pictures of you destroying the crop, then save the photos in the event someone asks for evidence. Although no one has ever asked for evidence (yet).

The pros of the program, you can grow and no one, even the DEA, can do anything about it. If you’re caught stepping outside the guidelines of the program, they give you like 30 days to get compliant or something.

The cons of the program, for one no one knows what will happen going forward. If they reschedule cannabis as a Schedule III drug, it has to be grown by a medical provider, so all licenses may get suspended. Or the state may decide to revive a program. But, worst case you can just surrender your license. You’re “on the radar” at that point, but with thousands of people on the radar it’s not really going to mean much.

One person mentioned they thought they weren’t issuing any more licenses. They thought they were done. But I don’t see that anywhere.

I looked into here in Florida , signed up was a cheap cheap license fee . Practically free basically a business license , unless it dove into anything edible then that fee jumped to 10k fee for consumable FDA label ISSUES. Like if I grew it and brought inside to the kitchen to make a tinture or a gummy I was gonna be in trouble for not having that $10,000 edible consumable or upgraded different license . Did the live scan , navigating the paperwork got confusing . They wanted a business plan of sorts . Seemed like I couldn't come up with that without a trial run is how I took it.
Wasn't really clear about sale or what I could do with the grown finished "compliant product" , had vague language that implied to me the sale of it was prohibited. Especially if untested . Asked several thca dispensaries about how to test so I could sell to them and asked where they get their stuff. (Can't test without being legal and licensed so it was like a circle jerk of confusion) They pretty much clammed up, or seemed like they didn't know . They gave me the assumption they said were buying stuff from legal states specifically said 'makes trips to Colorado" , and bringing it back to Florida with a test sheet in hand .Was basically told if i grow it with the license and it's over the % , I would get hauled out arrested etc. so I gave up . My main goal was to be legal to grow it for personal use, not get popped by air traffic neighbors etc. Cause I am an outside sun grower. I do know have been told by the dispensaries they basically test the plant before maturity making it farm bill compliant or at 30 to 45 days prior to harvest . Which in my experience makes sense. Having grown it there is a point where it's gonna test fine then 30 to 45 days later it's gonna be 15 to 20 % or whatever % the strain says it can achieve. But if it has the compliant test sheet ,ITS FINE . They will not retest it at harvest or later at the retail level. They are testing immature first bottom interior plant weaker buds . Chain of custody has to spot on. Case in point i have refrained from smoking consuming all thc, CBD and thca legal products . Looking for non THC industry work now and I can't pass a pre employment drug screen and it's been 30 days since I stopped consuming .

 

[WhatWouldBobDo]

I looked into here in Florida , signed up was a cheap cheap license fee . Practically free basically a business license , unless it dove into anything edible then that fee jumped to 10k fee for consumable FDA label ISSUES. Like if I grew it and brought inside to the kitchen to make a tinture or a gummy I was gonna be in trouble for not having that $10,000 edible consumable or upgraded different license . Did the live scan , navigating the paperwork got confusing . They wanted a business plan of sorts . Seemed like I couldn't come up with that without a trial run is how I took it.
Wasn't really clear about sale or what I could do with the grown finished "compliant product" , had vague language that implied to me the sale of it was prohibited. Especially if untested . Asked several thca dispensaries about how to test so I could sell to them and asked where they get their stuff. (Can't test without being legal and licensed so it was like a circle jerk of confusion) They pretty much clammed up, or seemed like they didn't know . They gave me the assumption they said were buying stuff from legal states specifically said 'makes trips to Colorado" , and bringing it back to Florida with a test sheet in hand .Was basically told if i grow it with the license and it's over the % , I would get hauled out arrested etc. so I gave up . My main goal was to be legal to grow it for personal use, not get popped by air traffic neighbors etc. Cause I am an outside sun grower. I do know have been told by the dispensaries they basically test the plant before maturity making it farm bill compliant or at 30 to 45 days prior to harvest . Which in my experience makes sense. Having grown it there is a point where it's gonna test fine then 30 to 45 days later it's gonna be 15 to 20 % or whatever % the strain says it can achieve. But if it has the compliant test sheet ,ITS FINE . They will not retest it at harvest or later at the retail level. They are testing immature first bottom interior plant weaker buds . Chain of custody has to spot on. Case in point i have refrained from smoking consuming all thc, CBD and thca legal products . Looking for non THC industry work now and I can't pass a pre employment drug screen and it's been 30 days since I stopped consuming .

I’m in a pretty similar situation, in that I want to grow just for myself. I’m not really interested in selling. But with anxiety, paranoia, little kids, and a job based on a government license that goes away if I get a federal charge, the risks of growing myself are pretty large. Even if the odds are small. I inquired about 5 years ago about getting a hemp license, back when my state had a state program, and it wasn’t available for “personal use.” But the USDA program, apparently, is.

I’ve been talking to a number of other people in the program, and it is absolutely the “wild wild west.” The Farm Bill is very clear that anything under 0.3% ∆9-THC is “hemp.” Meanwhile the USDA requires a test of “Total THC” which includes THCa. They have no legal requirement to justify their stance, but they aren’t backing down.

One grower sells seeds. Type I, II, and III. I asked him about if his genetics pass the test. He said the Type III, if tested 30 days before harvest, will pass. But the Type I and II seeds won’t. He said no Type I or II will, his or someone else’s. I asked him how he was able to grow, and sell Type I and II seeds under the USDA program if the plants themselves won’t pass the test, and he got really uncomfortable. I wasn’t putting him on the spot or anything, I just didn’t know if he could find a way to pass the test or something. He told me if you’re “really friendly” with the tester, there’s sometimes some solutions. Which is a wink wink, nudge nudge about fudging the test. He also said the HLPC style testing will be more friendly to the grower, but most testers use gas spec testing.

I talked to another guy, and he said, under his interpretation of the rules, he isn’t prohibited from growing Type I plants. From his perspective: (a) the USDA license allows you to grow cannabis sativa for, among other purposes, “research purposes”, (b) the USDA program doesn’t restrict the strains, but does require you to test within 30 days of harvest, and all tests must be below 0.3% Total THC, but if you don’t harvest, you don’t need to test, (c) so he’ll grow a plant, for research purposes to see how fast he can get the plant to finish, or how it’s responding to nutes or something, then once he’s gotten his data he chops the trees, (d) since he didn’t harvest, he doesn’t need to test, (e) he’s required to dispose of the plant, the USDA allows burning or composting, he elects to burn it, and his preferred location is within his bong. Which, isn’t really the point of the program, but I see what he’s doing. By doing that, if you ever get caught with live plants, your legal under the hemp program. Once you have dried and cured buds, as long as you pull up a test from online that’s like 4 years old or something that says it’s 0.3% THC then you’re good.

I also talked to quite a few people about THCa, and they all said the same thing. While the Farm Bill allows you to grow THCa, as long as ∆9-THC is below 0.3%. But the USDA, and any state hemp program, won’t. And no one has tested it yet. So either you’re growing for “research purposes” and then magically you also have THCa on the shelves, or you’re making trips to CO or NY and putting a bogus piece of paper with it (which is the majority of it).

What frustrates me though, all of the THCa stuff comes from states that require testing. So you should have a sheet that shows terpene levels, free from pesticides or molds. But they destroy those tests. So you have no idea what you’re buying. I talked to one breeder even, just talking about Type III seeds, and asked him for tests on his terpene levels. He had 5 strains of Type III, and he said he tested one of them in 2018, and here’s the report. Like, what in the world use is that going to be?