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Using Feminised plants for further breeding?

i know feminised seeds arent very popular amongst many growers, and i've heard that crossing a feminised plant with a male to make seeds is a bad idea....missing alleles etc.

but then ive also read that its ok as long as you've run the feminised plant a few times and its not hermi-prone.

so i would like to hear from either

1. people who have used feminised strains for breeding and what the results were.

2. people with a knowledge of genetics who can say categorically what the genetic results might be and if it's asking for trouble.

i dont really want this to be a general discussion about the merits of fem seeds because thats been had before.

my own situation is that i have a great Blueberry plant that was grown from a fem seed. ive ran it a few times now and no hermis. now with a strain that is prone to hermis like bb is a very stable fem plant worth using for crossing???

just to be clear im taking about crossing a plant grown from feminised seed with a regular male to make seeds.

thanks
andy
 
Greetings andytoker

i know feminised seeds arent very popular amongst many growers, and i've heard that crossing a feminised plant with a male to make seeds is a bad idea....missing alleles etc....andytoker
Popularity is relative; it is also community specific. I am aware of a tremendous number of cultivators who deal exclusively with 'femmed' seeds. In fact, the majority (slim, but nonetheless) of cultivators employ 'feminized' seed stock.

There is nothing inherently genetically inferior with 'feminized' seed stock.

but then ive also read that its ok as long as you've run the feminised plant a few times and its not hermi-prone....andytoker
This should be the standard, 'feminized' or no. Every potential P1 should be thoroughly tested and outcrossed before breeding begins in earnest. The desired outcome of the breeding program will dictate the suitability of the specimens.


so i would like to hear from either

1. people who have used feminised strains for breeding and what the results were....andytoker
I have; the results have been consistent, comparable or commensurate to 'regular' seed stock in some cases. In most instances, the results were superior.

2. people with a knowledge of genetics who can say categorically what the genetic results might be and if it's asking for trouble....andytoker
The results and whether they are satisfactory, are wholly dependent on proper selection and realistic goals.

i dont really want this to be a general discussion about the merits of fem seeds because thats been had before....andytoker
Agreed. It should be stated, that everyone is of course, entitled to their opinions. Some opinions are indeed rooted in fact, but this should not sway anyone's preference.

It should, however, also be stated, that dispensing misinformation is a separate issue.

Don't like using 'feminized seed' all you want, but also don't present specious rationalizations for your choices.

my own situation is that i have a great Blueberry plant that was grown from a fem seed. ive ran it a few times now and no hermis. now with a strain that is prone to hermis like bb is a very stable fem plant worth using for crossing???...andytoker
If you deem the specimen, "a keeper", then it is. If there is something in your estimation, worth preserving, then by all means, preserve it.

just to be clear im taking about crossing a plant grown from feminised seed with a regular male to make seeds....andytoker
Just to be clear: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept you are putting forth.

Sincerely,
Charles.
 
forehead - interesting! - i will be following that, thanks!

charles - thanks for giving us your thoughts on this. that all makes sense to me.
If female plants will produce male flowers naturally late n flowering if unpollenised, i guess a certain amount of 'natural' feminised seeds would be part of the cannabis gene pool anyway. I just dont want to do anything that is irresponsible to the future genetics of our beloved weed.
I guess, like any breeding parent, close observation and thorough investigation is the key.

here is what got me concerned about my plans for the BB
from another forum by a poster called small potatoes
And please, for the love of the plant, if you are planning to breed, DO NOT used a feminized female. Remember, your most ideal case is that she is "XXX". Still a hermi, and the progeny from her crossed with a stable male will be "XXX" and "XXY". HERMI HERMI HERMI. Hermaphrodites are one step closer to our favorite plant turning to hemp. A self pollinating sea of low THC, low yeilding plants.
what does everyone make of that?
 
Greetings andytoker

And please, for the love of the plant, if you are planning to breed, DO NOT used a feminized female. Remember, your most ideal case is that she is "XXX". Still a hermi, and the progeny from her crossed with a stable male will be "XXX" and "XXY". HERMI HERMI HERMI. Hermaphrodites are one step closer to our favorite plant turning to hemp. A self pollinating sea of low THC, low yeilding plants....small potatoes[?]


It should, however, also be stated, that dispensing misinformation is a separate issue.

Don't like using 'feminized seed' all you want, but also don't present specious rationalizations for your choices....C.X.
Sincerely,
Charles.
 
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I would personally never use fem seeds for breeding.
Thats just me though.

I 've grown a couple packs of fem seeds though (gifted) and had no probs whatsoever . Those where made with STS and came from Fet.
But I wouldn't really go buy fem seeds for growing or use em for breeding.
There may be problems later on so I wouldn't risk it.

Anyway even if I used fem seeds for breeding I would only grow the result myself and wouldn't pass the beans to others , if something goes wrong in the long run I wouldn't want to be 'responsible'.

Now since you 've hard-stress-tested your plant (that will be used for breeding) that came from fem seeds , I believe you won't have problems but be careful as you can never know how genetics will express themselves in the next generations. You could of course always test out the progeny and see after stress-tests if there are any issues in the next generation before moving on.

PS. It all depends on how exactly the fem seeds where made in the first place. meaning what method was used to create fem seeds .

my 2 cents
 
Greetings l33t

I appreciate your candor and the honest, straightforward outline of your position. Like I've posted: To use or not use 'feminized' seed stock for breeding really comes down to preference.

A point often overlooked: What's to say the "hermie" trait did not originate from the 'male' side of the crossing?

Like northone's posts clearly attributes: when it comes to breeding and successful harvests, there is no substitution for thorough selection.

Sincerely,
Charles.
 
thanks all - this is interesting.

so if this post by sm was wrong

And please, for the love of the plant, if you are planning to breed, DO NOT used a feminized female. Remember, your most ideal case is that she is "XXX". Still a hermi, and the progeny from her crossed with a stable male will be "XXX" and "XXY". HERMI HERMI HERMI. Hermaphrodites are one step closer to our favorite plant turning to hemp. A self pollinating sea of low THC, low yeilding plants.
can anyone walk us through the punnet square for crossing a feminised female to a regular male?
 
Greetings andytoker

Though polyploidy is considered common in plants, it rarely results in intersexedness.

I'll only address the simplified runs.

'female' = XX
'female' selfed = XX x XX ---> 100% XX progeny (S1)
S1 x 'male' = XX x XY ---> 50% XX; 50% XY

Sincerely,
Charles.
 
P

pinkus

Guest
maybe it's just that I'm XY, but i'd hate to think we could be eliminated. Reminds me of several arguments with some angry lesbians..."males are unneeded mutants!"

Just call me "Captain Dunsil"
 
charles- thanks again for your response - you make it sound quite straightforward!

i've been waiting for some more input from those that are against using fems for breeding.
It seems that whilst their are many farmers who have strong opinions against fems, its more of a 'feeling that it's bad' rather than anything that can be backed up by genetics or personal experience.

or perhaps i'm wrong? anyone care to chime in?
 
chem dog and the cindy 99 line by bros grimm was all started by seeds found in pot that was only growing female plants. so the are hermie seeds. alot of people have used and breed a bag seed the found just like the plants i mention above. Hermies is a natural state in cannabis. So to say any plant made by a hermie is bad. witch is how female seeds are made. then we would not have some of the dankest plants around. the hermie trait is not always dominate gene in ever offspring.


ITA
 
good point!

i wonder what kind of response DJ Short would get if he was starting out these days and posted a thread saying he intended to use hermaphroditic thai sativa as one of the building blocks of his flagship strain ;)
 
N

Nuglover

Guest
maybe it's just that I'm XY, but i'd hate to think we could be eliminated. Reminds me of several arguments with some angry lesbians..."males are unneeded mutants!"

Just call me "Captain Dunsil"
Were you aware that we all start out as female in the womb? Some turn male...some don't. Whether or not is determined by the sperm. And when arguing with angry lesbians you could always just use the" we're not mutants, we're just more evolved!" argument.LOL
 
IMO, and as Chuck has stated, there can be great advantages to using feminized seed stock for breeding. Of course first and foremost, IMO, would be to use only true breeding plants to begin with.

How much worry is put into finding true breeding traits of male plants? Hmmm....
But take two separate true breeding females, and force pollen from one or both to fertilize the other with, and steps previously needed to zero in on a trait, using the conventional male/fem method, can be skipped.
The beauty of the whole thing is being able to chemically force a plants behavior. Especially true breeding plants that will not hermie with light stress.
And even more especially, plants of the kindest variety that produces what we desire, and the way we desire it.

Btw, once you breed back to a male, you have your chromosome back.

*Edit...
Think of the implications of using femmed seeds for breeding auto-flower plants...
Correct me if wrong, but if I breed an auto fem with an auto male, I am going to have progeny that display the auto trait in a ratio of 50/50. This forces me to breed through another generation after selecting an auto from the group.
Now, if I force a female to pollen, I can skip the next progeny for fem auto seeds, because they will all have the auto trait, and will all be fem from the first round of breeding.
Yes?
 
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chem dog and the cindy 99 line by bros grimm was all started by seeds found in pot that was only growing female plants. so the are hermie seeds. alot of people have used and breed a bag seed the found just like the plants i mention above. Hermies is a natural state in cannabis. So to say any plant made by a hermie is bad. witch is how female seeds are made. then we would not have some of the dankest plants around. the hermie trait is not always dominate gene in ever offspring.


ITA
:anim_19:
 
first and foremost hoosier, you would need to know if the auto trait is XX, Xx, or xx. then you could figure out the phenotypic ratios.

i got a KKSC S1(femmed) from ograskal that i absolutely love and was also wondering the same question as andytoker.

what about crossing a S1 female to a S1 male?
 

xX Kid Twist Xx

Premium Member
Supporter
3,571
263
if the s1 male came from a s1 female then it would still be XX could the kids be male? can you get a male form selfing a plant or only females? technically when you self a plant your using a s1 male no?
 
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I truly believe the introduction of feminised plants into breeding will seriously raise hermaphodite tendancies, as well as reduce overall quality in every way.
By what genetic mechanism do you propose this will happen? I'd be interested to hear what you think might be going on. I had a debate with someone recently on this very topic and I have to say that I'm not sold on this being a possibility. But - my understanding of sex determination in dioecious species is limited. There might be something more complicated than the XY sex chromosome system in regards to sex determination in plants that I've never learned about.

I don't know what real results are indicating. Are people really experiencing a higher incidence of hermaphrodite plants originating from feminized seed? My experience with clones from feminized seeds is that they did not hermaphrodite.
 

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