Vaccinations we should have a choice

[chickenman]

My country, 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing:
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From every mountain side,
Let freedom ring.

What is liberty?

Webster's Dictionary defines Liberty as "the quality or state of being free," which means:

•"Freedom from physical restraint;"
•"Freedom from arbitrary or despotic control;"
•"The positive enjoyment of various social, political or economic rights and privileges;" and
•"The power of choice."
What is tyranny?

Tyranny is defined as "oppressive power" and "especially, oppressive power exerted by government;"

•"The office, authority and administration of a tyrant;"
•"A rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force;" or
•"An oppressive, harsh or unjust act."
The courageous men and women, who founded the United States of America and declared independence from tyranny on July 4, 1776, were escaping from the oppression of iron-fisted monarchies. They risked their lives to establish a nation that celebrates liberty, where citizens would be free from persecution for their religious beliefs and would not be under the thumb of an elitist aristocracy.

Moral Rights are Individual Liberties that Should Never Be Removed
In the first sentence of the U.S. Constitution, the founders of our nation pledged "to establish justice" and "to secure the Blessings of Liberty" for all citizens. If democracy is government by the people through elected representatives and majority rule, liberty is defined in the Declaration of Independence5 and the U.S. Constitution as a natural right belonging to everyone that should never be taken away by the majority.

Natural rights, which are known today as human or moral rights, are individual liberties that belong to all humans no matter where they live. The right to privacy and free expression in speech and press were defined in the Bill of Rights7 as individual liberties, which limit the power of government and prevent abuse of individuals and minorities.

Today, there is no greater threat to liberty in America than the government enforced use of pharmaceutical products, such as vaccines, sold by corporations for profit that can both harm individuals8, 9and can fail to work at all.

Our natural right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is being violated when government health officials enlist doctors and politicians to track down and coerce us into injecting ourselves and our children with biological products that carry significant health risks for some without our voluntary, informed consent. When Americans are threatened with loss of economic and societal privileges, such as being denied a public education, denied medical care, denied health insurance and denied the right to hold a job if we don't get every dose of every government mandated vaccine, there is no other word for this but tyranny.

The "community immunity" club being used today to take away civil liberties in the name of the greater good, conveniently fails to make a distinction between diseases. Hepatitis B is not polio and chickenpox is not smallpox but vaccine laws requiring mass use of dozens of doses of new vaccines treat all infectious diseases and vaccines the same way.

Current Vaccine Laws are an Uncontrolled Experiment
The large gaps in scientific knowledge about the damage that repeated vaccination from day of birth throughout life could be doing to our brains and immune systems has turned current vaccine laws into a forced, uncontrolled scientific experiment on the American population. The fact that some of us are at greater risk for having our health crippled or losing our lives to vaccines because of genetic and biological risk factors we inherited makes one-size-fits-all vaccine laws "cruel and inhuman in the last degree."
The fact that government operated electronic vaccine tracking systems are collecting medical data on us and sharing it with industry and vaccine developers without our informed consent, is a violation of our privacy.20 The fact that scores of new genetically engineered vaccines are being brought to market by a wealthy pharmaceutical industry25 shielded from civil liability26 is a corporate stockholder's dream and a health care consumer's worst nightmare.

The founders of our country could not have imagined this day would come in America when violation of the most important liberty, the right to self determination and the freedom to choose what we are willing to risk our lives or our children's lives for, would be taken away from us.

For if the State can tag, track down and force individuals to be injected with biologicals of known and unknown toxicity today, there will be no limit on which individual freedoms the State can take away in the name of the greater good tomorrow.

Force Attracts Low Morality
Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence said,

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

Albert Einstein, one of the world's greatest scientists, echoed Jefferson's defense of individual liberty, urging us to "Never do anything against conscience, even if the state demands it."28 A philosopher and humanitarian, Einstein insightfully observed that "Force always attracts men of low morality.

On this July 4th, I am celebrating the spirit, courage and common sense of the authors of the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution. They knew that individual liberties were the heart and soul of a democracy because individual liberties protect the people from governmental abuse of power.

Are you ready to stand up for the right to follow your conscience and choose the kind of preventive health options you want for yourself and your children, including the freedom to choose to use every government recommended vaccine, some vaccines, or no vaccines at all?

Sign up for NVIC's free Advocacy Portal at www.NVICAdvocacy.org and learn how you can protect health liberty in your state. Become a donor supporter of NVIC and protect the human rights of all Americans.

 

[chickenman]

I know Seamadien your a fan of vaccinations but dont you think we should at least have the choice of what goes into our bodies? Thats as basic as rights go when it comes down to it IMO

 

[Steel Erection]

We never finished the vaccinations for my first two children and our new baby will get no vaccinations at all. -SE

 

[Seamaiden]

I know Seamadien your a fan of vaccinations but dont you think we should at least have the choice of what goes into our bodies? Thats as basic as rights go when it comes down to it IMO

You're applying a blanket to me, and it not only doesn't fit but doesn't have a place. I'm a fan of prudence and disease prevention where it's effective and warranted. Based upon my experiences, I'm a fan of Parvo, rabies, and Giardia vaccines.

How do you think smallpox was eradicated? Honestly. On one hand we should have a choice, but on the other, tell that to a vectored disease. How do I have a choice as to whether or not I or my children are exposed when we have so many people trying to send their kids to public schools unvaccinated? How is that a choice for me or my loved ones, exactly?

Your liberty ends where mine begins.

If anyone plans on taking advantage of a public education (and I am of the opinion that we need to place a much stronger emphasis on public education, as I see us, as a nation, becoming more and more illiterate each day) and they don't want to have their kids vaccinated against deadly diseases such as whooping cough (aka pertussis, which is on the rise currently, as is TB by the by) then how does that allow a real choice for those who see the wisdom in that ounce of prevention?

I'm also the mother of an autistic adult, high-functioning, who was absolutely born that way, he wasn't made an autistic by any vaccinations or the like. (I suspect lead exposure during pregnancy as I worked at a thermography outfit.) I see most arguments against vaccination, especially when I compare them against the backdrop of history, as rather specious. I know that on most canna-forums it's quite hip to toss out the notion of vaccines entirely, but I'm a trend-bucker and have always forged my own path, popularity of a notion has nothing to do with it.

 

[vancerz]

a lot of half truths and out right lies with vaccinations and there effectiveness and the reduction in disease I blame mostly on the new concept of sterilization to prevent the spread, fact is most people who get infected by these "dangerous" virus got vaccinated against them first.

fact is there no evidence vaccinations work including smallpox.

"One of the worst smallpox epidemics of all time took place in England between 1870 and 1872 – nearly two decades after compulsory vaccination was introduced. After this evidence that smallpox vaccination didn’t work the people of Leicester in the English midlands refused to have the vaccine any more. When the next smallpox epidemic struck in the early 1890s the people of Leicester relied upon good sanitation and a system of quarantine. There was only one death from smallpox in Leicester during that epidemic. In contrast the citizens of other towns (who had been vaccinated) died in vast numbers."

this generation of over medicated over vaccinated children has lead us to have the most unhealthy generation of children ever seen in America.

I choose not to gamble with my 2 kids immune systems and there mind on unproven and dangerous vaccines loaded with heavy metals.

America is a republic that means 99 percent of the people cant rob the other 1 percent of there freedom to choose what is best for them and there kids....

^ and yes i know the irony of this statement

 

[Kief Stoned]

Alot of consp. theor.'s claim that the AIDS virus was intentionally put into the vaccinations of children that were black/hispanic and/or poor in the 70s as a form of genocide .

 

[Blaze]

fact is there no evidence vaccinations work including smallpox.

You are fucking kidding me right? Are you really that goddamn stupid? That is like saying that the sky is green or that the Earth rotates around the sun. Yep Small Pox and Polio just MAGICALLY vanished! It had nothing to do with vaccinations at all or the coordinated efforts of health officials around the world to eliminate them! A century worth of empirical evidence and scientific studies, plus the opinions of every single competent doctor, nurse, and health worker on the planet apparently mean nothing to you. All the doctors must be wrong, all the science must be wrong, all the text books must be wrong, everyone but you, who know absolutely nothing about medicine, must be wrong, right? Maybe if we wish REALLY REALLY hard AIDS and the common cold will magically vanish too!

All I can say is I sure feel sorry for your children being raised by such a dangerous, incompetent, and down right idiotic parent.

 

[Blaze]

Oh, and FYI here are the actual stats (you know, those pesky things called "facts") on how much reduction vaccines have had on preventable deaths:

Percentage of reduction of pre-vaccine era annual morbidity in the US compared to 2008 estimates:

Diphtheria: 100% reduction
Hepatitis A: 93% reduction
Measles: 99% reduction
Mumps: 99% reduction
Pertussis: 93% reduction
Polio: 100% reduction
Rubella: 99% reduction
Small Pox: 100% reduction
Tetanus: 98% reduction
Varicella: 89% reduction

I guess it must be pure coincidence that all those disease just HAPPENED to nearly vanish after the vaccines were developed according to you geniuses though....

 

[Kief Stoned]

uhhhhooooohh.. This thread is heading for trouble..

 

[kolah]

Yeah this topic is like politics and religion. not cool. It will get ugly.

I've never been vaxed, don't vax my animals but never push my opinions on others. I do not like anything being FORCED.

I am a retired chiropractor. I spent 12 years researching the pros and cons of vaxs.
Dr Sherri Tenpenny, DO covers it all in her books and lectures entitled "Vaccines, Benefits and Risks." She cites all her sources and puts everything in layman terms. Barbara Loe Fisher is a very well educated ex-nurse on the vaccine controversy. (and established the NVIC)
More and more MD's and Vets are questioning the validity and safety of vaccines and some of the brave ones completely oppose them altogether.

Vaccines are the scared cow of modern medicine.

A touchy subject, one I avoid discussing or debating.

 

[vancerz]

blaze, I feel the exact same about you, as you do about me so lets leave it at that.

this whole vaccine thing is not black in white, the reduction in infections that you listed other countries that don't vaccinate had a similar drops in them as well, theres too much to bring up about the whole subject to cover it in a single thread, let alone a comment, it all really is a massive subject on both sides.

I been in work in the medical field 7 years so far and it promotes vaccines so I know the pros as well as the cons, im no doctor not even a RN, but im not a complete idiot. I did my research as well as my wife who is also in the medical field for 5 years now I believe, I still follow news articles on the subject as do many others who care enough to review the "facts" and have came to similar conclusions.

this whole vaccine thing reminds me when doctors and there propaganda machines came out with studies telling people marijuana causes cancer, kills braincells and makes you go insane among other things and has zero medical benefits, or think about this real example taken from wikipedia (i know not a real source but reliable enough for this) "The 1976 swine flu outbreak, also known as the swine flu fiasco,[1] or the swine flu debacle, was a strain of H1N1 influenza virus that appeared in 1976. Infections were only detected from January 19 to February 9, and were not found outside Fort Dix.[2] The outbreak is most remembered for the mass immunization that it prompted in the United States. The strain itself killed one person and hospitalized 13.[citation needed] However, side-effects from the vaccine caused five hundred cases of Guillain–Barré syndrome and 25 deaths."

theres always a risk every single time you vaccinate just like there is an assumed risk when you dont, regardless......what ever you choose for you and your own I fully support it, its what makes this republic great is the fact that morons cant FORCE there koolaid drinking beliefs on others against there will...

 

[sky high]

Take em or not..... I could care less.

But if >something< happens, PLEASE pay your OWN medical bills and take responsibility for your decisions.

We are so free in this country that we have time to worry about shit like this and people STILL gripe and whine it ain't goood enough for em er someone is out to get em...LOL

 

[chickenman]

Alll respect and love to ya SM...Alls iam saying imo, we should be able to choose what we put into our bodies. I see your point about other kids who may become ill from non vacinated kids but i strongly feel if one was to get all reccomended vaccinations the combination causes many side effects later in life we dont realize. So big pharma wins again with more drugs prescribed in attempt to alleviate the unknowen side effects caused from multi vaccinations...I know lots of folks get flu shot and still get the flu. I resall a case of parvo and thet were vacinated as well. I believe in prevention thru nutrition. Iam convinced a diet of real food that not only tastes better than the processed preserved chemicaly laden diets most folks consume will prevent way better than a flu shot that I dont know whats in it, I know whats in my food cause I grow most of what i eat and know for the most part how and who grew the rest. I have not had a major cold or flu for many years, and despite 35 yrs of heavy drinking, after 10 yrs sober, a recent physical reveled incredable health, even liver is thriving. This is whats worked for me and Iam so thankful for my good health, loving wife, goats, chickens, food, flyfishing, great mj, so many good things to be thankful for and having good folks like you, even if we disagree, we respect each other... and I appreciate your opinions without any bashing going on something I refuse to do on here ...Lets all have a great day and if healthy be thankful, cause each days a gift lest we forget...

 

[sky high]

Respect. The way you are living reminds me of visiting Grandma on the farm as a kid. Fresh milk..butter we churned by hand..homemade ketchup...homemade bread.... cows, chickens, pigs.... wow....good memories.....

I feel guilty daily that I am sucked into the "machine". I go too the store and I'm happy i can buy my foood so easily..but like ya say...it's full of junk and just the overpackaging alone makes me feel like crap even before I eat it....

ya don't have a guest house me and the old lady can stay in...do ya? LOL.

"it's nature's way of telling you...something's wrong" >>>>>Randy C./Spirit

 

[chickenman]

One Particularly Egregious Example: Rubella Vaccine
The rubella virus used in making rubella vaccine was originally derived from tissues from the aborted fetus of a rubella virus-infected mother. Babies born to rubella-infected mothers are at risk for serious birth defects.

According to Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information Center:

"The rubella vaccine currently used in the U.S. and in most countries was developed after an American researcher at the Wistar Institute cultured rubella virus from a fetus aborted because the mother was infected with rubella. This vaccine is called RA 27/3 because the rubella virus was isolated from the 27th aborted fetus sent to the Wistar Institute in the 1964 rubella outbreak. Researchers were unable to culture rubella from the tissues of the first 26 fetuses sent to Wistar, which had been aborted by doctors because the mothers had rubella during pregnancy."

A recent study by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has led to a question of whether there is a correlation between the abrupt rise in American autism rates with the introduction of fetal cells for use in vaccines (1988). This correlation has prompted researchers to ask the question about how aborted fetal DNA could be causing, or contributing to, the development of autism disorders in children. Thus far, there have been no proposed theories of a mechanism. However, it's a significant correlation that should at least be investigated. If you care about what you put into your body, and into your child's body, and you are outraged by this information, you are not alone.

How can a person be pro-life and NOT object to the use of these vaccines?

The impact of the finding that many vaccines are derived from aborted fetal cell lines is potentially enormous, given the great number of people who define themselves as Pro Life. For someone who is Pro Life to discover that a vaccine contains the DNA from aborted fetuses is like a Muslim finding out that a vaccine is derived from pork.

I would anticipate that many of the people who object to use of aborted fetal tissues for scientific research are going to be shocked and outraged when they learn that their children have been secretly injected with vaccines containing DNA, proteins, or related cellular debris from cell cultures derived from aborted human fetuses.

This is not a small portion of the population!

The two largest religious preferences in the U.S. are Catholic and Evangelical, representing 50 percent of the population. And those are not the only two groups who typically share Pro Life views. Given these numbers, you could extrapolate that more than one of every two people receiving vaccines might have opted out of them based on religious beliefs alone, had they been given truthful and complete information about how the vaccines were produced.

The Catholic Church objects to "formal cooperation" with abortion. However, in terms of its vaccine policy, there are more gray areas than mandates.

The Vatican states it's your "grave responsibility" to use alternative vaccines when available, i.e., vaccines not derived from aborted human fetuses. It also states that those with moral problems should make conscientious objections. However, the Vatican dictates it's within your right to make your own choice about whether or not to use these vaccines. It takes the position that, in the absence of alternatives, the health of the population as a whole must be considered, stating these vaccines may be utilized "to avoid a serious risk not only for one's own children but also, and more specifically, for the health conditions of the population as a whole—especially for pregnant women."

For more details on the Catholic Church's stance on this issue, the National Catholic Bioethics Center has a section of their website devoted to Q & A about vaccines derived from fetal cells. If you are Catholic and confused about this issue, you may want to discuss it with your priest.

If you are Pro Life for religious or other reasons, you owe it to yourself to take a serious look at this information before consenting to be vaccinated. Catholics and others who share a Pro Life point of view may play an important role in the future of vaccine policy by pressuring the vaccine industry and policymakers to adopt alternative strategies for vaccine research and production.

Shocking Examples of Aborted Fetal Cells Used by the Food and Cosmetic Industry
With a little further probing, you'll discover the practice of using aborted fetal cell lines extends far beyond vaccines. Biotech companies are using these cell lines in the research and development of products ranging from soup to anti-aging skin creams. For example, a San Francisco cosmetics company, Neocutis Inc., acknowledges that the key ingredient in its anti-aging skin care line, PSP, was developed from an aborted and donated male fetus. The use of fetal tissue in anti-wrinkle creams certainly crosses moral and ethical boundaries for most consumers, especially when companies choose to HIDE this information. But it gets worse…

Cells from an aborted fetus may have been used to create flavor enhancers for your soup or soft drink. Yes, you read that right.

PepsiCo, Kraft Foods, and Nestle are reported to have partnered with a biotech firm called Senomyx, which uses human embryonic kidney cells taken from an electively aborted fetus (HEK 293) in their product testing to find flavors that will positively affect human taste receptors.

When this news leaked, Campbell soup responded to an outraged public by severing all ties with Senomyx. However, PepsiCo has maintained their relationship with the company, saying the collaboration is necessary for creating low-calorie, tasty products for their consumers.

REALLY? Must they really use human fetal cells just to make soda pop taste good?

This makes me wonder how many companies out there are engaging in such practices that we haven't yet discovered. If they've been doing this with vaccines, cosmetics and food, I wonder what else they might be doing

 

[chickenman]

Human fetal cell soda pop..... cant wait to try....

 

[amstercal]

For if the State can tag, track down and force individuals to be injected with biologicals of known and unknown toxicity today, there will be no limit on which individual freedoms the State can take away in the name of the greater good tomorrow.

Am I missing something? Where are vaccines forced other than the military? I agree it's all overly tracked and there's a tremendous amount of pressure on parents to vaccinate, but I've never heard of anyone being compelled against their will. I realize school districts may try, but the ones around here issue waivers if you push. Where do you live?

I have a little one going through the vaccines. Since he has a first cousin with aspberger's, it was of huge concern to me. However, no one ever tried to compel me. They just provided me with info. If your doctor is "forcing" you, you should switch doctors, immediately.

Sea, have you seen the studies lately about autism?



http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/09/studies-new-clues-to-the-genetic-roots-of-autism/

More and more evidence that vaccines are not the likely culprit.

 

[altimood]

I chose to vaccinate this plant with E20 when it was 4" tall.

Was it a good idea? Maybe. Maybe not. But I had a CHOICE. We all have choices to bitch or take action. The problem with this country is nobody takes action. We bitch about policy. We bitch about this. We bitch about that. But no one really does shit about it. It makes me laugh. Liberty? Its at your fingertips for the taking. Most people have it at their fingertips. You have to grab it if you want it. Talking about shit doesn't resolve anything. You have to do something about it.
Do I have all the answers? NOPE. But its high time folks talk about course of action instead of crying about problems. Not just for vaccinations, but for all the bullshit people are crying about up here in the land of the free. We'll see who steps up....

Where are you gonna take your stand? There's a lot (stands that is) to take these days in the name of liberty. I guess I'm taking mine with the tree in the above picture for now. Good luck with those vaccinations. Peace.

 

[kolah]

land of the free?

thats the illusion! LOL

 

[chickenman]

Hey All dont mean to preach just informing....Take it or leave it IMO the more you know the better and your free to decide.......BUT IAM ALLWAYS RIGHT DAMMIT Of course just kidding LOL