Water Chilling Q & A

[ttystikk]

There have been others, but I think it's time to build a new thread about water chilling as a viable, if not outright superior alternative to climate conditioning indoor gardening spaces to traditional AC approaches.

My own experience is this; basic AC only addresses temperature and does not regulate humidor well. While this is acceptable in an office environment, an indoor growing space is a completely different situation.

It is therefore my contention that about half of a typical indoor grow's cooling bill could be saved with the use of chilling. This savings can be increased with a heat pump, geothermal and certain other technologies beyond the scope of this thread.

I hope I didn't bore you, I'm trying to save you a fortune!

 

[rick ratlin]

Thanks for starting this up TTY! I just picked up a 1/4 HP Active Aqua chiller, got 2 Hydro innovation ice boxes, and 1 cool coil.

Gonna use these in veg. Room is 2x 250 watt hid air cooled, 1 T-5 200 watt, ballasts are in the room too. 4 x 40watt oscillating fans, 1x 6" inline fan in there as well. wattroom is 10'x10' Temp right now is 82-85 degrees F day and night.

I've only used a water chiller for a aero cloner, so this is definitely a step up for myself. I'm not even sure what type of water to run(r.o./tap/distilled.

Can I daisy chain all three pieces(coil, 2x ice boxes) in 1 run? I'd imagine i'd run the cold water through the cool coil first, then through the ice boxes. I'm thinking the complete tubing run will be about 20-25'

What's the minimum res size I should use? (I have plenty 27 gallon tuff boxes) I've got 185gph and 396gph water pumps that can run inline as a booster or submerged. I'm not sure how to get the right flow.

There are the details, any advice, tips, tricks, or pitfalls I should look out for? no detail is too small.
Thanks for the persistence on water chilling, I wouldn't have made this move without your insight.

 

[ttystikk]

I fear your 1/4 hp chiller will be way too small.

Rule number one about water chilling; excess capacity does not automatically mean higher bills or wasted power!

Get the biggest chiller you can.

 

[rick ratlin]

Yes, I agree it is going to be too small, but its a freebie from an old friend, so its going into use. However, it's main purpose is to help the a/c, which can easily cool the flower and veg from fall to spring, but it's just too hot this summer. I only need the temps down just a few degrees.

 

[ttystikk]

Avoid daisy chains, as they create lots of problems with differing heat loss. Try to run a manifold, better yet, with valves so that each circuit created can be handled separately from the main system. This provides for all sorts of advantages.

Definitely use a reservoir. Be sure it is well insulated. A tall barrel is better than a tub because it's easier to stash someplace cool and its easier to insulate. Generally, a bigger reservoir is better, up to 20 gallons per ton.

 

[ttystikk]

Yes, I agree it is going to be too small, but its a freebie from an old friend, so its going into use. However, it's main purpose is to help the a/c, which can easily cool the flower and veg from fall to spring, but it's just too hot this summer. I only need the temps down just a few degrees.

Whatever you can get that helps, I know that feeling very well. Be sure the chiller is not in or near the grow room. It needs to dump its heat someplace the AC doesn't have to move it again, or it becomes worse than useless.

 

[ftwendy]

Hey tty -- thanks for the new thread bro. Good idea.

What's the best way to use an existing residential geothermal setup in a growroom's cooling system?

 

[ttystikk]

Hey tty -- thanks for the new thread bro. Good idea.

What's the best way to use an existing residential geothermal setup in a growroom's cooling system?

First of all, reach around and give yourself a nice big pat on the back for getting one of the most advanced systems available!

In most homes, this setup would pump excess heat into the ground all summer, and pump it out and into the house all winter. In the case of your grow op, that direction is not likely to reverse with the seasons unless your op is very small.

The cold side of a heat pump works exactly like the water chiller it is; pump cold water to radiators where cooling is needed, then blow air through those radiators anytime things get warm.

The hot side of the heat pump makes hot water, refer to the manual for details, but the idea is to provide hot water for domestic use, baseboard style radiant heaters, piping under floors both indoors and even under patios, sidewalks and driveways, and my own pet idea; a water heated hot tub, that does double duty as a heat sink!

The excess heat is then sent through the geothermal piping to shed it before the cooled water is sent back to the heat pump for another cycle.

If this sounds like two separate water systems, you are thinking correctly; one each for hot and cold. I'll tell you right now, I want one in my dream home- only my "geothermal field" will be my driveway, sidewalks, hot tub, etc, etc!

 

[ftwendy]

Thanks man! Now I need to find out how well this system has been maintained, and if its an open or closed loop... there's plenty of groundwater around, so it may be open. Either way, I'm excited to learn about geo and water cooling in general. I'll keep updates coming in here..... good morning, ftw

 

[Seamaiden]

Get more pix and maybe some of woodsmaneh's stuff/info in here, and I'll sticky this shit.

 

[ttystikk]

Get more pix and maybe some of woodsmaneh's stuff/info in here, and I'll sticky this shit.

I have the pics. When I posted them elsewhere, they were ignored- so the strategy with this thread is to wait until someone asks a relevant question, such as about manifold as above, I'll write an explanation and only then include pics there.

Woods will be along soon enough with some input, and there are others here with water chilled gardens as well.

 

[ttystikk]

Get more pix and maybe some of woodsmaneh's stuff/info in here, and I'll sticky this shit.

If you wanted to make a change that would really help out with the website's organization, we need a top level equipment forum page. This would be for those of us who are making innovative gear- not strains, not teas, not one plant size vs. another.

I've built lights, RDWC, rotators, trellis and my own water chilled cooling system (which belongs in a subset of regiment; 'climate control equipment and approaches')

Break this into sub forums; lighting, hvac, hydro systems.

The problem otherwise is that I throw all my knowledge to the winds, because there is no place for other people to find it! I'm sick of that, my time is short. I won't stand to see it wasted.

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm not able to make fundamental changes to the site's design and layout, that's logic's and TECK's purview. I can sticky the shit outta threads, though! If you link to the thread where you put up your pix, that will make the whole sticky thing more complete(ly sticky). I think it's something worth discussing with logic, though, for sure.

I remember your very first thread on here, "Built my own light rotator! Wanna see?" or something like that. So cool.

 

[ttystikk]

I'm not able to make fundamental changes to the site's design and layout, that's logic's and TECK's purview. I can sticky the shit outta threads, though! If you link to the thread where you put up your pix, that will make the whole sticky thing more complete(ly sticky). I think it's something worth discussing with logic, though, for sure.

I remember your very first thread on here, "Built my own light rotator! Wanna see?" or something like that. So cool.

I'm not sure it was my first, but it was definitely the most popular! I've heard gripes about the farm's organization for years. I think the most glaring issue is that the equipment and installation threads are buried and have no place of their own.

I plan to start my own indoor gardening equipment company. I would like to have a clear section for all things equipment, from McGuyver specials to Current Culture. If I'm going to advertise here, I want my innovations to be accessible. It's overdue, and it's missed.

 

[seebobsled]

I'll bump
I run a chiller system and won't look back.
I D.I.Y. ed all exchangers and controllers. Hydro and chillers go hand n hand.

 

[Swany]

Great thread idea, I think I'll get sticky with it myself ;-}

I'm heading for chilling but not there yet. My first question involves rh control with chilling. How does that work? I don't plan to run an actual chiller, i'm going to pump cold water up from the creek and circulate that. If the chiller itself is used to remove moister from the air I guess I loose out on that. Could you give a general explanation Tyy or should I ask more detailed questions?

 

[seebobsled]

Great thread idea, I think I'll get sticky with it myself ;-}

I'm heading for chilling but not there yet. My first question involves rh control with chilling. How does that work? I don't plan to run an actual chiller, i'm going to pump cold water up from the creek and circulate that. If the chiller itself is used to remove moister from the air I guess I loose out on that. Could you give a general explanation Tyy or should I ask more detailed questions?

Your creek water temp needs to be below dew point in your room to get dehumidification on the heat exchanger. Also a air temperature needs 10 to 20 degree lower water temperature to achieve target room temperature.

 

[seebobsled]

Here's a few pictures 2 heat exchangers and my "no flow or overflow-no go " controller.

 

[ttystikk]

I'll bump
I run a chiller system and won't look back.
I D.I.Y. ed all exchangers and controllers. Hydro and chillers go hand n hand.

Yea, u remember what you did- could you share what you did HERE, one more time, in detail, then Seamaiden said she would sticky it.

You and I know the truth that this is just plain better than AC- even minisplit. Notes our chance to put our setup where our mouth is. I am also hoping to A. Learn new tips from you and others, and B. Teach everyone as much as I can about it.

Why would I do this? The power companies themselves say that nationwide, some 15% of all electricity generated for residential use goes to grow ops. If I save our bleeding edge indoor growing insiders energy, I'm saving my planet.

 

[Swany]

Your creek water temp needs to be below dew point in your room to get dehumidification on the heat exchanger. Also a air temperature needs 10 to 20 degree lower water temperature to achieve target room temperature.

The creek is cold, but I have not measured it yet. I'm fairly certain it's 60 or below which would give the the 20 degree differential if running CO2 at 80 F. Don't know if that would get me condensation however.

So rh control with a chiller set up is done with condensation. Is it as simple as putting a drip tray under the radiator and letting what ever water condenses fall into the tray and drain away?