Wavy, wrinkled, crinkly looking leaves.

[Ezdeezy89]

I'm having an issue that started out with some of my plants, but it seems to be progressing to others. Mainly one strain, white truffle, which I've never had issues with before.

Leaves that are higher up on some of my plants have started showing crinkly, wrinkled, wavy looking leaves. I run 650w LEDs that are only at 70% output(I'm vegging) and about 800 ppfd. Room temps are 82-85 with 68-74% humidity at any given time with CO2 at about 1000ppm. I'm running coco with about 30% runoff each feed(7 times a day, every 2 hours)

pH going in is always 5.5-5.8, and I tend to pH closer to 5.8. I've done slurry tests and I also have a bluelab pH rootzone testing probe. Highest one plant I tested was 6.0, the lowest was 5.6. I've had leaves do this before and be twisted up and whatnot, and it's usually attributed to pH problems, but everything is dialed in now so I feel I have to rule it out.

I do have a mild fungus gnat infestation, and once a week I'll feed with bti to kill the larvae and I have sprayed with green cleaner, pure crop etc., But I've never seen issues like this from the gnats Ppm going in is about 500. Plants are somewhat stunted as well. I can't figure out what's going on. Anyone dealt with this before?

 

[2Bad]

Post a pic of the whole plant if you can. And where was the leaf located? Are they all like this?

 

[Ezdeezy89]

This is probably the worst plant in the room. I just deleafed a couple days ago so anything lower was taken off, but it seems to be the newer growth/higher leaves. No not all the plants are like this. Doesn't seem to be a certain part of the room either. Mind you, they aren't all this bad, but I'm afraid we're getting this way with the others

 

[2Bad]

I'm assuming your automatic watering? I'm really not sure about this. I'm kinda learning myself. But are you lifting the pots at all and making sure your soils actually absorbing the water? I was thinking maybe hydrophobic.

 

[2Bad]

@mysticepipedon @freezeland2 @Aqua Man

 

[Ezdeezy89]

I'm assuming your automatic watering? I'm really not sure about this. I'm kinda learning myself. But are you lifting the pots at all and making sure your soils actually absorbing the water? I was thinking maybe hydrophobic.

Yeah It's on a timer. They're definitely getting the water they need, and they sit on drain tables so they aren't soaking in the runoff. Ppms are reading slightly higher than what's going in, which is typical when I check runoff ppm Looks like there's deficiencies of some sort creeping in, but the way the leaves look are weird, I've never seen any this bad. I pulled the plant out of the pot and the roots are nice and strong. No foul smell of root rot. I've dealt with it before in DWC so I'm familiar with how it looks/feels/smells.

 

[Aqua Man]

What media?

pot size?

watering frequency?

watering volume?

ppm and PH input and runoff? (actual numbers please?

light make and model?

light distance?

temp and humidity? (Day and night if possible)

have you seen any bugs?

the better info you give the more reliable and easier the diagnosis

 

[Ezdeezy89]

What media?

pot size?

watering frequency?

watering volume?

ppm and PH input and runoff? (actual numbers please?

light make and model?

light distance?

temp and humidity? (Day and night if possible)

have you seen any bugs?

the better info you give the more reliable and easier the diagnosis

My dude I answered damn near all of those in the initial post but I'll make it easier to read my bad didn't mean to come across as an ass

What media? Coco

pot size? 1 gallon

watering frequency? 7 times a day every two hours

watering volume? 30% runoff

ppm and PH input and runoff? (actual numbers please? 500/650

light make and model? Floraflex 645w led 800ppfd

light distance? 2-3 feet

temp and humidity? (Day and night if possible) 84 high 70%. Vpd 1.1ish

have you seen any bugs? Mild fungus gnats

 

[freezeland2]

have you seen any bugs?

the better info you give the more reliable and easier the diagnosis

That’s what I was gonna ask

 

[2Bad]

My dude I answered damn near all of those in the initial post but I'll make it easier to read

You got the coco god's attention. Got to do some work for him.

 

[freezeland2]

My dude I answered damn near all of those in the initial post but I'll make it easier to read my bad didn't mean to come across as an ass

What media? Coco

pot size? 1 gallon

watering frequency? 7 times a day every two hours

watering volume? 30% runoff

ppm and PH input and runoff? (actual numbers please? 500/650

light make and model? Floraflex 645w led 800ppfd

light distance? 2-3 feet

temp and humidity? (Day and night if possible) 84 high 70%. Vpd 1.1ish

have you seen any bugs? Mild fungus gnats

Have you scoped the underside of the leaves?

 

[Ezdeezy89]

Have you scoped the underside of the leaves?

Yeah I haven't seen anything looking thru jewelers loupe, I did have some thrips that came with the clones I got. I sprayed with 3 different brands a couple days apart, but that was weeks ago and I haven't seen any since.

 

[freezeland2]

Yeah I haven't seen anything looking thru jewelers loupe, I did have some thrips that came with the clones I got. I sprayed with 3 different brands a couple days apart, but that was weeks ago and I haven't seen any since.

@Aqua Man

 

[Aqua Man]

My dude I answered damn near all of those in the initial post but I'll make it easier to read my bad didn't mean to come across as an ass

What media? Coco

pot size? 1 gallon

watering frequency? 7 times a day every two hours

watering volume? 30% runoff

ppm and PH input and runoff? (actual numbers please? 500/650

light make and model? Floraflex 645w led 800ppfd

light distance? 2-3 feet

temp and humidity? (Day and night if possible) 84 high 70%. Vpd 1.1ish

have you seen any bugs? Mild fungus gnats

runoff 30% of what? How much are you putting in?

you ppfd is waaay to high for the health of those plants. What light cycle are you running? i would be dropping ppfd down to like 200-300 until they recover… if they do

slurry test is no good. Do you know the runoff PH. If not please check next feed.

if your seeing fungus gnats you have a bunch of larvae in there eating your roots. Treat with BTI for the larvae and yellow sticky pads to catch the adults.

wgat are your leaf temps? (if you have an IR temp gun)

lower your temps to 76-80f for now.

is this a sealed room or vented? Tent etc?

your VPD is likely off quite a bit. You have to take leaf temps into account. Its likely less than half what you think it is. Drop the humidity to about 55-60% with room temps i gave you.

there is a lot of work to be done here fixing things. And not just a single issue. If you want to work on it then read these to help you understand some of why and what i asking these questions for. These 2 you need to know and understand.

HOW TO WATER COCO FOR BEST RESULTS.

Ok writing this cause i see this issue often and rather have a thread to link than explain this each time. This is not my work but a collection of info from many members here and I have put into practice myself. So first off COCO is NOT soil. For best results we want to keep it saturated...

www.thcfarmer.com

VPD (vapor pressure deficit)

Ok i was gonna sit down and write out a whole article but i have been lazy so instead instead I'm going to copy paste because im lazy. This is not my work so let start. You may find this very long but its worth the read. Some may want to skip ahead. I have added here and there to what i feel is...

www.thcfarmer.com

 

[Ezdeezy89]

runoff 30% of what? How much are you putting in?

you ppfd is waaay to high for the health of those plants. What light cycle are you running? i would be dropping ppfd down to like 200-300 until they recover… if they do

slurry test is no good. Do you know the runoff PH. If not please check next feed.

if your seeing fungus gnats you have a bunch of larvae in there eating your roots. Treat with BTI for the larvae and yellow sticky pads to catch the adults.

wgat are your leaf temps? (if you have an IR temp gun)

lower your temps to 76-80f for now.

is this a sealed room or vented? Tent etc?

your VPD is likely off quite a bit. You have to take leaf temps into account. Its likely less than half what you think it is. Drop the humidity to about 55-60% with room temps i gave you.

there is a lot of work to be done here fixing things. And not just a single issue. If you want to work on it then read these to help you understand some of why and what i asking these questions for. These 2 you need to know and understand.

HOW TO WATER COCO FOR BEST RESULTS.

Ok writing this cause i see this issue often and rather have a thread to link than explain this each time. This is not my work but a collection of info from many members here and I have put into practice myself. So first off COCO is NOT soil. For best results we want to keep it saturated...

www.thcfarmer.com

VPD (vapor pressure deficit)

Ok i was gonna sit down and write out a whole article but i have been lazy so instead instead I'm going to copy paste because im lazy. This is not my work so let start. You may find this very long but its worth the read. Some may want to skip ahead. I have added here and there to what i feel is...

www.thcfarmer.com

My runoff is 30% of medium(1 gallon pot) throughout the course of the day (typically not this high, just trying to get a little more runoff to see if there's an issue in the medium).

Ppfd is probably high, just odd that I run it this high in late veg before I flip to 12/1300 but I do agree that it's likely that high and I've turned down the lights and temp as of yesterday.

Runoff is anywhere from 5.6-6.0 depending on the plant. I also have a bluelab probe that measures rootzone ph that is giving me the same readings.

I dose bti once a week.

I have a flir camera, leaf temps are 2 degrees lower than room temp.

Room is sealed with CO2.

I'm not sure how my vpd is less than half of 1.1 but 70 Rh/84 room temp/82 leaf surface temp comes to .98, which should be fine for veg right? Unless the calculator I use is wrong or something is misleading in my inputs.

Idk either way I appreciate the input. I'm hoping the lower ppfd and temps will help though. Would be ideal if that was the issue

 

[Ezdeezy89]

That vpd article is 🔥 great work

 

[Aqua Man]

My runoff is 30% of medium(1 gallon pot) throughout the course of the day (typically not this high, just trying to get a little more runoff to see if there's an issue in the medium).

Ppfd is probably high, just odd that I run it this high in late veg before I flip to 12/1300 but I do agree that it's likely that high and I've turned down the lights and temp as of yesterday.

Runoff is anywhere from 5.6-6.0 depending on the plant. I also have a bluelab probe that measures rootzone ph that is giving me the same readings.

I dose bti once a week.

I have a flir camera, leaf temps are 2 degrees lower than room temp.

Room is sealed with CO2.

I'm not sure how my vpd is less than half of 1.1 but 70 Rh/84 room temp/82 leaf surface temp comes to .98, which should be fine for veg right? Unless the calculator I use is wrong or something is misleading in my inputs.

Idk either way I appreciate the input. I'm hoping the lower ppfd and temps will help though. Would be ideal if that was the issue

LED is usually about 3-4f lower but can be as high as 10f if they are transpiring a lot with lots of air movement.

So your leaf temps are as high as 83f? thats a problem. They should be around 75-77f most strains show stress around 79-80f

in my 1 gal coco i was feeding 250 ml and looking for 25ml runoff. Dont need to measure every plant.

you adjust the feed frequency based on the runoff. Not sure if you have a timer capable of seconds or if your hand watering but 30% input is very high if its working for ya great but if you putting 30% in and getting 30% out there is a problem with uptake and judging by the plants thats possible.

 

[Aqua Man]

With 2f leaf temp difference its a sign transpiration is low and thats to be expected when leaves are rough and the plants struggling

 

[Aqua Man]

Another thing that can shock plants is temp difference between the media and feed. With high frequency feeding this is much more of an issue than other styles. Try to keep it within +/- 2f to be ideal.

just dropping things to see if anything catches your eye.
definately plant temps need to come down and I honestly feel there are root issues.

if you skip watering how long does it take for the pots to dry back until light? If you haven’t tried that. I would as it will give you a better idea of how much the plant is actually taking up.

 

[Ezdeezy89]

LED is usually about 3-4f lower but can be as high as 10f if they are transpiring a lot with lots of air movement.

So your leaf temps are as high as 83f? thats a problem. They should be around 75-77f most strains show stress around 79-80f

in my 1 gal coco i was feeding 250 ml and looking for 25ml runoff. Dont need to measure every plant.

you adjust the feed frequency based on the runoff. Not sure if you have a timer capable of seconds or if your hand watering but 30% input is very high if its working for ya great but if you putting 30% in and getting 30% out there is a problem with uptake and judging by the plants thats possible.

Yeah, I was under the impression that was normal, I had no idea surface temp should be that low.

Yeah I have a trolmaster connected to my pump, I can put it wherever.

I did notice the plants aren't losing much moisture in between feedings. Runoff typically occurs after the 3rd feeding. I may be overdoing it. Lowering the Rh will help the plant pull from the medium more right?

The suggestions are great, it's making sense coming from someone else lol I appreciate it.