Week 4 or 5 ish of flower and no bud devopment.DWC D2W

[Bdubs]

WHy advanced? Just put a tea spoon of it in water roots drink the water they go inside.many reaserch online showing it.same with trichoderma they stick to the outside of the root make a slime sheild.
Well they dont work just in veg and they make the plant suck more powerfully giving you bigger yields. Allso some bacteria works good in thw mix.there is some bacteria that will break down insoilible calcium from your water.... many benefits from going non sterile she can handle even higher temps with it as well

It is risky and allows you to toy with limits and adds more variables. Much like CO2 would be a leap for a newer grower. That is probably what I could compare it to, IMO.

There is something called the Dunning Effect. Most of us on the site here are at the top and working our way down the slope right now.

 

[Bdubs]

Most of us on the site here are at the top and working our way down the slope right now.

Thats me

 

[YBGTA]

Is there anything involved slowing flower like a russet or broad mites?

I haven't gotten that close to check, it could be gnats, what to look for with them?

 

[YBGTA]

Give it a good flush, and start back with your flower feed @50% of recommended ml per gallon. Always feed light you can add more but you can’t always take away haha. If you are DWC I’d say fill it with plain tap water, and let your plant eat the nutrients up in the actual roots and leaves, go back to your feeding schedule when things look better. I’ve never grown deep water culture so I could be wrong.

That’s a heavy nitrogen toxicity! You need to somehow flush out all the N and lower your feeding.

Hope this helps in someway! Happy growing!

Thanks, I have flushed for a day or so and have 50% strength with just pk in at thr moment and I feel like i see new pistils emerging

 

[YBGTA]

You can always force feed hydro high ppm if you do scheduled, every 4 weeks, 2day 50% “flush” and then go back to normal high ppm again. If done every 4 weeks it should keep the plant taking the nutrients. The flushing to keep salts from accumulating. Scheduled prevention vs waiting for creep to signal one is needed. Otherwise keep that ppm low for hydro. Half what soil could manage. 4-700ppm is about proper for max ppm for stress free growth. Higher than 700 and one may consider the 4 week flush interval to power the plant through intense growth without stunting on lockout.

Thank you for this view of like your way of thinking I'll remember this for future grows

 

[YBGTA]

Also, when you get above 700ppm in hydro, your roots are taking a beating on nutrient salts. Dead roots, discolored and unhealthy non succulent root color is dying roots. If you are running higher ppm in hydro, watch your roots. If they discolor and it isn’t water temps or Ph issue, the ppm may be burning roots…dehydrating the roots from the salt buildup and so they dry out and die turning brown and causing root rot. Dead roots in hydro = bad bacteria and root rot. Ph drops follow and will be noticed with roots darker color and or dying off. Beat to keep nutrients light and if you see root discoloration, check water temps, ph and ppm. Any PPM creep is the plant signaling she is rejecting a little something and is accumulating salts in roots. Just as leaf droop is general plant health, hydro gets roots and leafs to examine, don’t forget the roots, they talk to you in their color and health. Just cuz we want 1200ppm doesn’t mean they can take it. But we can force it successfully if done correctly and of course more work and effort to achieve…healthily.
Hydro prizes on growth rates, pushing too hard is counter productive to the only benefit hydro brings to your plants.

Hydro lacks mycorrhizae (plant health and better nutrient absorption, for soil) and because of that, hydro loses a main crutch plants in soil benefit from, beneficial fungus. Mycorrhiza is soils one up on hydro among other things…that assists in plant health.

Keep hydro nutrients on the lighter side, only what she wants, those leaf tips tell you to step it back. Just the tip, and I mean just the tip, not burnt tips, just a pinch of tip stress, coming to a needle point like the leaf tip is on a squeeze internally. If any leaf tips go beyond just the very tip, you need to back it down a hair until those tips stop burning or go back to normal. Burning isn’t forcing her to eat anything, it’s a signal she is rejecting and roots are taking damage from excessive nutrients. Leaf tips give you time to correct the nutrients. Get leaf tip burn and then reduce slightly when you are pushing in veg, seeking the proper max PPM she can handle. Then you can use that as a staple for max ppm in bloom phases. Remember you are going to drop nitrogen in flower which will substantially reduce ppm from nitrogen and the ppm will be at the same as before in growth due to increasing bloom nutrients, if done correctly you shouldn’t have a ppm dip upon flower flip. It should stay nearly flatlined between veg mix and bloom mix final PPMs. This is why I mention to feel the ppm max in veg before the flip. It isn’t what we want to do to the plant, it’s what does that plant need from me.
The more HST and training you plan to do to the plant, may help in deciding how strong of nutrient ppm you run or how aggressive your feed schedule is. More topping and mainlining or heavy defoliation and lollipoping, the more sessions you plan to perform HST should indicate how heavy your ppm targets are. And if you do a natural grow or only LST, PPMs need to be on the light side for the most growth rate and best results.

Thanks for the advice, some of it i have researched before, some new to me. I also have this other one that started to decline rather quickly over a week it seems, only a few minor tops but I have no clue other than it being a immobile nutrients deficiency since it's starting from thr top leafs, and judging by the pattern could it be a cal/mag def? Do I just need to up my dosage? I thought it could be a heat issue(curling upwards) but my lights seem not that close at all and the environment says around high 60s to mid 70s, or it could be my humidity since it's pretty high sitting between 60%-70% on average these past few weeks.

 

[YBGTA]

Saying mycos cant live in hydro ia like saying maycos die when you water the soil... as long as there is air in water they will live.as well as teichodermas but never mix them at the same time first mycos then a week or 2 after trichodermas

What is trichodermas?

WHy advanced? Just put a tea spoon of it in water roots drink the water they go inside.many reaserch online showing it.same with trichoderma they stick to the outside of the root make a slime sheild.
Well they dont work just in veg and they make the plant suck more powerfully giving you bigger yields. Allso some bacteria works good in thw mix.there is some bacteria that will break down insoilible calcium from your water.... many benefits from going non sterile she can handle even higher temps with it as well

Now see i had gotten hydrogaurd but stopped using because I was going sterile so why waste it. I only stopped using it cause when I first started my temps was too warm for my water and now I think that might be too cold all the time now. I'll check out trichoderma and some mycos brands

 

[Bdubs]

What is trichodermas?

Now see i had gotten hydrogaurd but stopped using because I was going sterile so why waste it. I only stopped using it cause when I first started my temps was too warm for my water and now I think that might be too cold all the time now. I'll check out trichoderma and some mycos brands

If you have some browning, Hydroguard helps a lot. But be aware, gypsum will form (brown flakes) and it is an accumulation of minerals. Which if left floating around can cause some other issues, if it means keeping some rot at bay, I use it if I see my roots discolored. It should relieve stress.

You mentioned it may be gnats. This is not good for hydro. T Drops or bacillus thuringiensis product to add to the water will eliminate gnats. BT needs to be administered every swap. It takes time for BT to work and it only works on the larvae. So you must infect the larvae to disrupt their cycle. But the larvae is what damages the plant, so BT will stop their progress and it can immediately relieve the plant of stress if it is out of hand (even a few gnats can destroy a plant).

 

[Bdubs]

Personally I would like to see more water splash droplets on the net cup.
This happens with nano air stones, micro sized air bubbles. Sure they give the best oxygen ratio. High air/oxygen prevents bad bacteria from stealing oxygen from the plant. They both need oxygen, increased air can help prevent the roots from suffocating from bacteria stealing oxygen.
But the issue is you get no splash. The net cup pebbles don’t get wet and the upper roots stay dry. This can cause some stress to the plant as some roots are staying too dry, the medium in the pebbles or roots in the pebbles can also dry out and rot due to being too dry just as soil going too long between watering can cause dry spots and root rot (or in hydro, water level too low and splash is too low).
Larger bubble air stones can help in getting splash up to the net cup. Nano stones just can’t splash no matter how hard you crank it up.

That would be phosphorus deficiency more than anything. But when we look at deficiencies first you do look to other factors. Light is big on this. Direct correlation of how much light and how much nutrients she needs. If light is proper, ph is stable or in range, then I would suspect she needs more of that food. But if she is locked out on it at the roots, that’s the other deal.

You won’t be able to get those leaves looking good again, they are fried. I would suspect nutrient lockout over not enough in the water. Given your leaf tips are burnt hard I would see how the flush works and not take any action on that signal. If your crisping and drying stops progression or spreading, then you can safely asses if it needs added phosphorus in the water or if it was just locked up and resume as normal.

 

[YBGTA]

Personally I would like to see more water splash droplets on the net cup.
This happens with nano air stones, micro sized air bubbles. Sure they give the best oxygen ratio. High air/oxygen prevents bad bacteria from stealing oxygen from the plant. They both need oxygen, increased air can help prevent the roots from suffocating from bacteria stealing oxygen.
But the issue is you get no splash. The net cup pebbles don’t get wet and the upper roots stay dry. This can cause some stress to the plant as some roots are staying too dry, the medium in the pebbles or roots in the pebbles can also dry out and rot due to being too dry just as soil going too long between watering can cause dry spots and root rot (or in hydro, water level too low and splash is too low).
Larger bubble air stones can help in getting splash up to the net cup. Nano stones just can’t splash no matter how hard you crank it up.

That would be phosphorus deficiency more than anything. But when we look at deficiencies first you do look to other factors. Light is big on this. Direct correlation of how much light and how much nutrients she needs. If light is proper, ph is stable or in range, then I would suspect she needs more of that food. But if she is locked out on it at the roots, that’s the other deal.

You won’t be able to get those leaves looking good again, they are fried. I would suspect nutrient lockout over not enough in the water. Given your leaf tips are burnt hard I would see how the flush works and not take any action on that signal. If your crisping and drying stops progression or spreading, then you can safely asses if it needs added phosphorus in the water or if it was just locked up and resume as normal.

My bad I meant to add that picture of the roots was right before a water change i usually go with the appropriate water level at what ever stage the roots are in of course, I'm wanting to defoliate a bit cause she is super bushy in the middle and was thinking of giving her a hydrogaurd bath ph'd for a day or so and then put her back in original bucket feed (already reduced by half from last week) till thos Monday for a fresh new batch.

This is where I normally have my water level, I find advanced nutrients foams alot in dwc, not a fan since flosting dead roots stick to the sides as the water goes down.

 

[Bdubs]

Just a Me thing- fade is normal in flower yeah, but does it need to fade, no. When my plants fade in color, early to mid flower I make sure to reduce light intensity. I get more intensity because I use multiple lights in the room. Fade to me is not desirable during the growth phases. I don’t want to see fade until I start nutrient reductions for late bloom. If I see fade in those earlier weeks 1-5, I reduce light intensity. Not only does it assist in temp control to target lower temps after week 6, but it also gives her a boost to maturing On Time. It signals a light change to DLI that will tell her winter is closer than she thought and will switch gears toward maturing. I don’t mess with changing up nutrients here and there on them to correct fade, I reduce intensity. The fade happens because she doesn’t have enough nitrogen to replenish from what the light demands of chlorophyll production. (As long as calmag is in check (which she uses the most calmag in weeks 4-6 and then wants less, which is your late bloom feed ). Abruptly giving more nitrogen in flower is detrimental, always feed that amount of nitrogen or less, never increase nitro in flower if you can help it. So if you fade in flower “early” reduce light intensity.

This could be controversial and some may disagree about reducing light intensity can be the answer. Some say you should never reduce the intensity. If you’re not performing bell lighting or following DLI….one problem that can arise is prolonged flowering and a delay of maturing.
Reducing light intensity as the grow goes, off plant stress signals, can help you maintain consistent plant development and increased productions for your plants.

This is how I do it if I see my girls fading before I want them to. The goal is to have them fade late, early fade is stress.

 

[YBGTA]

Just a Me thing- fade is normal in flower yeah, but does it need to fade, no. When my plants fade in color, early to mid flower I make sure to reduce light intensity. I get more intensity because I use multiple lights in the room. Fade to me is not desirable during the growth phases. I don’t want to see fade until I start nutrient reductions for late bloom. If I see fade in those earlier weeks 1-5, I reduce light intensity. Not only does it assist in temp control to target lower temps after week 6, but it also gives her a boost to maturing On Time. It signals a light change to DLI that will tell her winter is closer than she thought and will switch gears toward maturing. I don’t mess with changing up nutrients here and there on them to correct fade, I reduce intensity. The fade happens because she doesn’t have enough nitrogen to replenish from what the light demands of chlorophyll production. (As long as calmag is in check (which she uses the most calmag in weeks 4-6 and then wants less, which is your late bloom feed ). Abruptly giving more nitrogen in flower is detrimental, always feed that amount of nitrogen or less, never increase nitro in flower if you can help it. So if you fade in flower “early” reduce light intensity.

This could be controversial and some may disagree about reducing light intensity can be the answer. Some say you should never reduce the intensity. If you’re not performing bell lighting or following DLI….one problem that can arise is prolonged flowering and a delay of maturing.
Reducing light intensity as the grow goes, off plant stress signals, can help you maintain consistent plant development and increased productions for your plants.

This is how I do it if I see my girls fading before I want them to. The goal is to have them fade late, early fade is stress.

Awesome thanks, I'll try and lower my lights to around 75-50% and see how it reacts to the change over the next week, what would you say is a good distance for them to be at? I have 1 ts1000(150w 2x2),HLG 3000K (260w 2x4) and a ts3000(450w 4x4) they are about 18-21" away at the moment. I also forgot I have the photone app and till I can get a decent real light reader I was using this so I'll keep the ppfd around the usual mid flower ppfd range to help dial in the intensity %.

 

[Bboy791]

Good phd Flush then leave for a day then feed proper ppm proper ph and start testing ph u put in and h cmn out and ppm going in and cmn out google how to check ppm ec and ph levels as run off what you read will tell u whats wrong ive used advanced nutrients for years in the past and like most nutes they last u longer than they state tbey give u optimal ranges for perfect conditions etc u dnt need so much though ppm and ph if u get that right theyl do great good luck dude

 

[Bdubs]

Awesome thanks, I'll try and lower my lights to around 75-50% and see how it reacts to the change over the next week, what would you say is a good distance for them to be at? I have 1 ts1000(150w 2x2),HLG 3000K (260w 2x4) and a ts3000(450w 4x4) they are about 18-21" away at the moment. I also forgot I have the photone app and till I can get a decent real light reader I was using this so I'll keep the ppfd around the usual mid flower ppfd range to help dial in the intensity %.

Because you use multiple lights in the same area/room, your light intensity overall is substantially increased. Running 50% on all three could even give 1400ppfd. When you use multiple lights they emit more light diodes, increasing the intensity the plant sees. So it will need to be something where you can never trust your dials you must trust your light meter.

You will be forced to run lower intensity and therefore achieve a different light spectrum. Whereas 85-100% is optimal for flower spectrum, with 3 lights 65% may be acceptable.

 

[Bdubs]

So your intensity dial, ppfd charts on the lights are out the window when you incorporate multiple lights in the same room.

 

[YBGTA]

Good phd Flush then leave for a day then feed proper ppm proper ph and start testing ph u put in and h cmn out and ppm going in and cmn out google how to check ppm ec and ph levels as run off what you read will tell u whats wrong ive used advanced nutrients for years in the past and like most nutes they last u longer than they state tbey give u optimal ranges for perfect conditions etc u dnt need so much though ppm and ph if u get that right theyl do great good luck dude

Yeah I'm finding out with every attempt what brands are stronger than others, and many say you get better as you keep growing.

 

[YBGTA]

Because you use multiple lights in the same area/room, your light intensity overall is substantially increased. Running 50% on all three could even give 1400ppfd. When you use multiple lights they emit more light diodes, increasing the intensity the plant sees. So it will need to be something where you can never trust your dials you must trust your light meter.

You will be forced to run lower intensity and therefore achieve a different light spectrum. Whereas 85-100% is optimal for flower spectrum, with 3 lights 65% may be acceptable.

So your intensity dial, ppfd charts on the lights are out the window when you incorporate multiple lights in the same room.

Right, okay so I'll mess with lighting and flush for a good set of hours and check back to see if she improves, appreciate the quick response.

 

[Bdubs]

Yeah I'm finding out with every attempt what brands are stronger than others, and many say you get better as you keep growing.

yes sir because most end up using meters, following VPD, DLI, bell lighting and incorporate light limit rule into their process after a while of growing. When once before those words meant work, they now know it means quality and quantity to pay heed. Bro science is just playing around cuz yah bored, not because you don’t give a crap. There is a difference. The growers I have met who have the laid back “don’t make it hard growing weed” mentality, they throw their weed in the trash when I come over.

 

[Bdubs]

Yo you do have a nice area though. Plants are not bad man. Hydro is a trip let me tel you. So many variables it can make your brain fee like it’s on squeeze.

 

[YBGTA]

Yo you do have a nice area though. Plants are not bad man. Hydro is a trip let me tel you. So many variables it can make your brain fee like it’s on squeeze.

Thanks man i really appreciate that, I'm finding that out as this is my 2nd attempt(which is way better than the first lol)here recently as well ive been leaning into the coco coir medium lately, I have 4 going right now in 1 gal fabric bags and they're doing decent, about 3 1/2 ft tall at the moment. I want to trellis and up my harvest rate so this upcoming next grow i have set limits to veg before I flip and hopefully all goes good, all will be coco coir 100% most likely.