Welp. Time to hang it up

I've had battles with RA's and this sounds different. Are you seeing the white chalky stuff on the surface of the soil? when you water do you see crawlers moving up the stem and sides of the pot? Any fliers?

Any way of getting pics of a bud dissected or split in half to see what the inside looks like?
No white chalky stuff. No black soot. No movement on top of soil
 
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Any chance it's the light? I switched to a Hortilux and noticed that the bulb's output was a lot less than my typical MH that I used prior. I also use Promix and have grown for decades for personal use, but despite the great reputation, I found the Hortilux Eye Blue to be less satisfactory than other bulbs, despite their better color spectrum. FWIW, if a plant can't use a part of the spectrum, then that light is wasted. Hortilux provides a very level amount of light across the spectrum, but a considerable amount of it is in the non-PAR regions instead of having spikes in the PAR values that the plants could use better.
 
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I’ve had what I am positive we’re bulb mites in the soil. The growth of the entire plant is stunted, not just the density of be buds. I after that bulb mite incident I switched to coco coir and hadn’t had issues since. I used to get smaller airy buds until I added more lights. I couldn’t believe the difference more lights made to the size of the buds! I also switched nutrient lines at about the same time so it could have been a combo of both changes...
 
Any chance it's the light? I switched to a Hortilux and noticed that the bulb's output was a lot less than my typical MH that I used prior. I also use Promix and have grown for decades for personal use, but despite the great reputation, I found the Hortilux Eye Blue to be less satisfactory than other bulbs, despite their better color spectrum. FWIW, if a plant can't use a part of the spectrum, then that light is wasted. Hortilux provides a very level amount of light across the spectrum, but a considerable amount of it is in the non-PAR regions instead of having spikes in the PAR values that the plants could use better.

Thanks for the info! Pretty sure not the lights. I’ve only used Hortilux for like the past years sprinkled in with some ushios in my early days.

I either should let it sit dormant for a long while or just give up. I hate the fact that I let something beat. But I tried for over a year
 
I’ve had what I am positive we’re bulb mites in the soil. The growth of the entire plant is stunted, not just the density of be buds. I after that bulb mite incident I switched to coco coir and hadn’t had issues since. I used to get smaller airy buds until I added more lights. I couldn’t believe the difference more lights made to the size of the buds! I also switched nutrient lines at about the same time so it could have been a combo of both changes...

My situation doesn’t sound like that one bit. Glad to hear you overcame them!!! Anything in the soil that gave it way? That they were bulb mites?
 
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Notice this big bud never stuck together. It’s the like the meat that was supposed to bring it all together was never there. So instead of a nice top piece it ended up being a few hollow smaller pieces.

It’s not like these were individual buds. This was supposed to be one big top piece. It’s been going on for a year now.
I’m not sure but I think it might have to do with heat. I hope ya figure this out man unlucky
 
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I don't know man. The pic of the bud you showed doesn't look "hollow" at all. It looks like an average bud. Maybe not the tightest around, but decent.

Most pests I've heard of leave tell tale signs that are easy to identify. I've never heard of one that attacks your roots and leave the flowers "hollow".

From the pic of the bud you showed, it looks like it may be a bit on the airy side. But not really. Ive seen worse for sale in dispensaries. From what I see, a bit of colder temps at the end and maybe check your par output (or get new lights), should solve your problem.

You sound like your dead set on giving up. So maybe that's what you should do...
I dont see why that would be an option. But from what you've been saying, it sounds like youve already made up your mind and you're just looking for reasons to validate your choice.

If it were me, I would figure it out. Stopping wouldn't be an option, since even if the yield was lower than I normally get, it would still cost me way more to buy my own than grow it.

Good luck, stick with it, you'll figure it out.
 
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Some background.

Been doing this for years plus and normally will produce high quality buds that yield very well. I’ve had experimented with numerous techniques and have battled every pest imaginable I thought.

So over a year ago, a friend of mine told me about his problem with RAs. I had zero experience with them. Did not even think he passed them off to me when I grabbed some cuts/and was helping him out. So shortly after I noticed a bunch of “gnats” hovering around my air cooled hoods trying to get to the light it seemed. Did a little research and found out these were adult flyers. Ended up drenching them with promise a few times and the harvest ended up pretty decent with a slight regression in overall quality of product. I just assumed my friends cuts were not good.

My next round, I decided to be proactive and use bontiguard in veg back to back feedings. Didn’t see many flyers at all this time but my ladies suffered in the end result. Right before harvest they looked actually good but did not feel dense. Then I cut and hung them. Yield and quality were greatly diminished. Not even sure if I seen them in the roots. Spent hours looking for them.

Shut down for 2 months. Sterilized everything. Started back up. This time I went to battle using P. Mites, beneficial nematodes, sticky traps, and caps beenies every third feeding. Almost time to harvest and buds are looking good AGAIN but not dense again. Been running CO2 the whole flower stage. Here are some pics prior to harvest.

View attachment 877730View attachment 877731

During the drying process they began to shrink more than usual. And my final product suffered again. Looks decent but no meat on the bones. Like it literally feels hollow. I’ve grown for many years and usually produce a gram for every watt. And now I can’t get even close. After a bad year plus I’ve decided to shut down bc I can’t afford it anymore. But I’m so perplexed that “something” beat me that I can’t identify. I’ve searched hours upon hours in my soil for RAs and can’t find nothing. During the flowering stage I had other growers come look at my plants and all were blown away at how luscious and healthy they looked.

Any thoughts? I don’t wanna even wanna try to solve the problem at this point. I just wanna know what it is. I’ve searched every grow forum and

Still RAs?
A virus?
Broad mites (monitored for those) never had them
Thrips? No signs of them
Spidermites? I know them well. No signs
No pm

Just green luscious plants that don’t produce.
Dont know what caps beenies are but it sounds like your problem started when you used pesticides, maybe killed your beneficial microbes too. Just a guess
 
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My situation doesn’t sound like that one bit. Glad to hear you overcame them!!! Anything in the soil that gave it way? That they were bulb mites?
I am not sure if they came from the soil I bought or these organic bloom spikes I wanted to try out. I first saw spring tails and that prompted me to look at the soil further. Got my scope and thats when I saw the mites. Def not root aphids and that’s what led me to identify them as bulb mites. They matched all the images I found online and through extension websites. I happened to be growing autos at the the time and one auto was seriously stunted and the others seemed to be okay. After that grow, I switched to coco coir since it’s more inhospitable to soil pests. I never reuse my fabric pots either anymore. In the past I would reuse if they were still in good shape. I also add a 1/4 teaspoon of elemental sulfur to one gallon of water (along with my nutes) once a week as part of my IPM (integrated pest management). It’s also good for enhancing terpenes. Sulfur is the main ingredients in terpene enhancers that you buy and it’s good for plant growth and structure.
 
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Also something as simple as your pH being off just a little bit could prevent uptake of macro nutrients postassium and phosphate as well as micronutrients. That’s why I never stick to one pH, ever. For coco I keep my pH between 5.8 and 6.3. For soil, I think I used to keep my pH between 6.2 and 6.8. It was different each time I watered/fed. IMO, it works as a fail safe incase your pH pen is off or if your plant like a different pH than what you always set it at. Make sense?
 
I don't know man. The pic of the bud you showed doesn't look "hollow" at all. It looks like an average bud. Maybe not the tightest around, but decent.

Most pests I've heard of leave tell tale signs that are easy to identify. I've never heard of one that attacks your roots and leave the flowers "hollow".

From the pic of the bud you showed, it looks like it may be a bit on the airy side. But not really. Ive seen worse for sale in dispensaries. From what I see, a bit of colder temps at the end and maybe check your par output (or get new lights), should solve your problem.

You sound like your dead set on giving up. So maybe that's what you should do...
I dont see why that would be an option. But from what you've been saying, it sounds like youve already made up your mind and you're just looking for reasons to validate your choice.

If it were me, I would figure it out. Stopping wouldn't be an option, since even if the yield was lower than I normally get, it would still cost me way more to buy my own than grow it.

Good luck, stick with it, you'll figure it out.

Appreciate the response. Here is a pic of some gelato that I’ve grown multiple times. And this is from a totally diff room about but same place.

Notice the the bud never came together. From a distance it may even look good. I’ve grown this flavor multiple times and something isn’t right. I don’t wanna call it quits. But it’s financially draining me.

821770F0-8357-40AC-BE23-B6EAC444E2DE.jpeg
20B9B882-06EF-4E42-840F-3D1AB982CBB3.jpeg
 
Also something as simple as your pH being off just a little bit could prevent uptake of macro nutrients postassium and phosphate as well as micronutrients. That’s why I never stick to one pH, ever. For coco I keep my pH between 5.8 and 6.3. For soil, I think I used to keep my pH between 6.2 and 6.8. It was different each time I watered/fed. IMO, it works as a fail safe incase your pH pen is off or if your plant like a different pH than what you always set it at. Make sense?
Appreciate the wealth of knowledge. I was very keen on keeping my ph btw 5.9-6.2 using (soil-less) pro mix. I really think was RAs. Freaking sucks cuz I never seen one. But I had them prior this grow and that’s the only thing I think coulda survived my sanitation process of two months. Sucks big time
 
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I run multiple strains. All of them I’m familiar with. I’m 90 percent sure it’s not RAs. I’ve searched diligently in the soil and can’t find one them. It has to be something else.

My setup is fairly simple. I run air cooled hoods with 600 watt hortliux bulbs that I replace every two runs. CO2 burner (4 valve) that is light sensored btw 1200-1500 pms.

Smart gallon pots 15 gallon with pro mix. My veg line is emarald harvest with cal mag/and or silica. Before flower i do a flush and run advanced nutrients. I’ve been using caps beenies every week for my tea. Both foliar and root pack. Quite expensive.

Besides the flyers over a year ago I never seen a root aphid in the soil. Plants are vigorous and luscious, no stunting. They’re ready for a feeding every third day. For this much damage and harm I’d imagine they’d be everywhere. Literally my yields have dropped by more than half and if you walked in my room before harvest you’d think I’m about to crush it. There’s just no meat to the buds. They look beautiful before harvest.

Has anyone else experienced this?
I just finished a grow and I have a thread going on about using a 10K bulb and having an issue with smaller plants, despite growing the same strain for decades. I was going to swap it out when I discovered that instead of using the 10K bulb, or the regular 4K MH bulb, I had put a Hortilux Eye Blue into the socket. I also had issues early in veg with spider mites, so I attributed the shorter plant to the mites, but now I'm suspecting the Hortilux. It produces about 25% less light than my regular bulbs. I really hate to say that the Eye Blue 1000w bulb was the reason, but so far, that is the only common thread that I have with smaller size plants. I haven't dried or cut them yet, and they are a Sativa so I won't get nugget buds off of them anyhow, but they are smaller than they used to be.
Another issue that I remember from long ago was clone degradation. Despite clones being copies, they seem to decline in vigor over the years and sometimes benefit from newer stock. I love Promix and have used it since the early 80s, but I haven't seen the decline that you have seen, although I use a very simple process without much added other than compost/manure, wood ashes, and some timed release prills. Jacks 20-20-20 is main veg food, bloom formula for flowering. Same process forever, but the Hortilux made a difference. If you have a photometer, check your output to make sure it isn't degrading.
 
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I really, truely dont think that is RA damage. I battled them for a while and the signs are seriously chlorotic leaves and small buds, along with white chalky crap on the soil surface. One way to rule it out is use merit 75 in veg, two applications 2 weeks apart. That would guarantee the problem isnt root aphids.

You are 100% sure your temps were on point and there were no light leaks?
 
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I just finished a grow and I have a thread going on about using a 10K bulb and having an issue with smaller plants, despite growing the same strain for decades. I was going to swap it out when I discovered that instead of using the 10K bulb, or the regular 4K MH bulb, I had put a Hortilux Eye Blue into the socket. I also had issues early in veg with spider mites, so I attributed the shorter plant to the mites, but now I'm suspecting the Hortilux. It produces about 25% less light than my regular bulbs. I really hate to say that the Eye Blue 1000w bulb was the reason, but so far, that is the only common thread that I have with smaller size plants. I haven't dried or cut them yet, and they are a Sativa so I won't get nugget buds off of them anyhow, but they are smaller than they used to be.
Another issue that I remember from long ago was clone degradation. Despite clones being copies, they seem to decline in vigor over the years and sometimes benefit from newer stock. I love Promix and have used it since the early 80s, but I haven't seen the decline that you have seen, although I use a very simple process without much added other than compost/manure, wood ashes, and some timed release prills. Jacks 20-20-20 is main veg food, bloom formula for flowering. Same process forever, but the Hortilux made a difference. If you have a photometer, check your output to make sure it isn't degrading. Is there any chance that your CO2 burner is producing CO? Low levels can cause decreased vigor. A longshot, but something else to think about.
 
I really, truely dont think that is RA damage. I battled them for a while and the signs are seriously chlorotic leaves and small buds, along with white chalky crap on the soil surface. One way to rule it out is use merit 75 in veg, two applications 2 weeks apart. That would guarantee the problem isnt root aphids.

You are 100% sure your temps were on point and there were no light leaks?
What up dirtbag. Yes everything was sound in terms of environment. I learned a long time ago environment is essential and the first step to getting a good grow going. Humidity checked. Temp checked. Ari flow checked. New bulbs checked. Sealed cracks checked. Over a foot of distance from canopy to light checked. Air cooled hoods checked.

The plants looked great. The bud actually finished. Normally w a light leak.. you’d see deformities or reveg etc.

It was a pest. Which one that’s up for debate
 
I just finished a grow and I have a thread going on about using a 10K bulb and having an issue with smaller plants, despite growing the same strain for decades. I was going to swap it out when I discovered that instead of using the 10K bulb, or the regular 4K MH bulb, I had put a Hortilux Eye Blue into the socket. I also had issues early in veg with spider mites, so I attributed the shorter plant to the mites, but now I'm suspecting the Hortilux. It produces about 25% less light than my regular bulbs. I really hate to say that the Eye Blue 1000w bulb was the reason, but so far, that is the only common thread that I have with smaller size plants. I haven't dried or cut them yet, and they are a Sativa so I won't get nugget buds off of them anyhow, but they are smaller than they used to be.
Another issue that I remember from long ago was clone degradation. Despite clones being copies, they seem to decline in vigor over the years and sometimes benefit from newer stock. I love Promix and have used it since the early 80s, but I haven't seen the decline that you have seen, although I use a very simple process without much added other than compost/manure, wood ashes, and some timed release prills. Jacks 20-20-20 is main veg food, bloom formula for flowering. Same process forever, but the Hortilux made a difference. If you have a photometer, check your output to make sure it isn't degrading.
That horlitux eye blue? Is that one that is roughly around 200 plus dollars. You can use it thru veg and flower? I’m not familiar w it. I normally use the regular blue light for veg and sway in the hps the second week of flower to try to avoid a big stretch.
 
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That horlitux eye blue? Is that one that is roughly around 200 plus dollars. You can use it thru veg and flower? I’m not familiar w it. I normally use the regular blue light for veg and sway in the hps the second week of flower to try to avoid a big stretch.
I grow in Promix, like you. I bought a Hortilux bulb last season and started to use it this season for veg growth, as it had great light specs. I think the preferred light spectrum comes at a cost, though as the light's output was 20,000 lumens less than the regular ~4K MH that I had used before. A 6K bulb next to it was notably brighter, and verified by a photometer. The Eye-Blue is a premium bulb but it is different than the regular Hortilux line... I don't know if their outputs are the same as most other similar bulbs as I've never used them, only the Eye Blue. I think the Eye Blue would be a preferred light source if either a smaller space or multiple bulbs were used.
In my experience, lower light levels invariably lead to smaller or looser buds. Since the strain is the same, I would suspect either clone fatigue or light issues. I use a combo of a Sylvania MS-1000 (it has some extra red in it to supplement the high blue levels) and a HPS with good results, but after reading a study comparing THC levels from HPS VS LED lighting, I am going to try using a 10K finishing bulb this run. I thought I had a 10K in place, but I discovered that I was actually using the Eye Blue Hortilux for the entire season at one end of the room. The plants were much shorter than they usually were and were notably shorter than a clone that was grown under more of the regular MH lights.
I know what I said is confusing with all of the bulb swaps and mixups, but the summary is that I used a 1000w Eye Blue Hortilux by mistake this season, thinking it was a roughly 4K bulb. My estimated yield from the plants that were getting most of their light from the Hortilux bulb were considerably shorter and didn't seem as heavy. I haven't dried them yet to see what the final yield is, but they are Sativa and don't make hard nuggets under any conditions. I have grown the same strain for decades and I had just made a post about the results from the 10K bulb after seeing a decreased sized plant after so many years of consistent results.
I decided to try a new 10000K 1000watt Metal Halide light for a grow
 
I'm curious about the ballasts. It seems everything else has been addressed, unless I missed it. Might be worth checking into, if everything started degrading at the same time with no other explanation. I know that generally speaking, ballasts either work or don't, but you never know!
 

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