What’s a basic NPK ratio for all stages of growth that’s better than no fertilization at all?

[oldskol4evr]

Now that Michigan has legalized recreational marijuana, I am trying my hand at growing some plants exclusively for personal consumption. I started my seeds (Colorado Bubba) via wetted, paper towel germination, planted seedlings in small paper cups, then transplanted into bigger pots of decent medium when they were about 3” tall. After 2 months of doing nothing but basic hydration ( top & bottom watering), they are about 2’ tall. Because of the atypical weather in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, they have yet to reveal their sex, but I’m being patient. Having a basic certificate in Introduction to Horticulture, I know my chances at a better product should include fertilization. I know that there are several schools of thought concerning fertilization (e.g., at various stages of growth, etc.), but I am looking for a basic NPK ratio that is suitable for all stages. This is not because I’m lazy and looking for the easy way out, but rather because I don’t have the time to invest that career growers obviously do. As aforementioned, I am merely interested in producing a decent product for personal consumption with the exception of treating family & friends to a decent buzz. So, that being said in almost book length (lol), do you have any suggestions and, if so, providing a trusty purchasing source would be a plus. TIA

you have a horticulture degree right ,then you already know that the only way to achieve what your loking for is from tissue test along with bray testing,the olsen test is much better but both have same thing,one done with chemicals other not,what you need to do is send in a sample and see exactlly what you do have and go from there,the test are for every nutrient micro and macro plus organic matter,living in michagan and all the snow you all have im sure any thing you put in probally run right off,are you digging your amends in about 8 to 12 inch deep?
you can build your own soil were the lack of time doesnt allow much time,amend your soil friend and water only,i have too i grow medicine for me and veggies for 7 im over whelmed with work hahahah so water only,it can be done,but check whats under your foot first ,more times than not you have ideal soil right in your yard full of live and most important organic matter,even if you wanted to take inside and tent grow with it ,it can be done,ph first,npk values next,soil report will break it down by 100 acre you have to do the math from there,with that report you will give the soil what it needs instead of what you think it needs,when done water only

 

[Migrower]

you have a horticulture degree right ,then you already know that the only way to achieve what your loking for is from tissue test along with bray testing,the olsen test is much better but both have same thing,one done with chemicals other not,what you need to do is send in a sample and see exactlly what you do have and go from there,the test are for every nutrient micro and macro plus organic matter,living in michagan and all the snow you all have im sure any thing you put in probally run right off,are you digging your amends in about 8 to 12 inch deep?
you can build your own soil were the lack of time doesnt allow much time,amend your soil friend and water only,i have too i grow medicine for me and veggies for 7 im over whelmed with work hahahah so water only,it can be done,but check whats under your foot first ,more times than not you have ideal soil right in your yard full of live and most important organic matter,even if you wanted to take inside and tent grow with it ,it can be done,ph first,npk values next,soil report will break it down by 100 acre you have to do the math from there,with that report you will give the soil what it needs instead of what you think it needs,when done water only

I believe he said he has (a introduction to horticulture “certificate “ This is not a degree in horticulture. It is actually a very thorough class taught throughout Michigan with the curriculum put together by one of the best agricultural schools in the nation MSU. While it is a great class by far it is not a degree and even with the core completed and all the subtle mental classes completed with certification.It is not a degree. The difference I believe since I have both is about 50k. Though these tests are not covered in the core . He should know by earning that certificate what he should generally be doing. All macro and micro elements are covered. @Archie did you takes notes. Look back on em all

 

[oldskol4evr]

I believe he said he has (a introduction to horticulture “certificate “ This is not a degree in horticulture. It is actually a very thorough class taught throughout Michigan with the curriculum put together by one of the best agricultural schools in the nation MSU. While it is a great class by far it is not a degree and even with the core completed and all the subtle mental classes completed with certification.It is not a degree. The difference I believe since I have both is about 50k. Though these tests are not covered in the core . He should know by earning that certificate what he should generally be doing. All macro and micro elements are covered. @Archie did you takes notes. Look back on em all

see there im no scientist hahahahh degreed or not anyone looking for the water method only should use the statment above ,right?i think you agree

 

[visajoe1]

if just going with one nutrient in soil, an organic 1-1-1 will suffice.

most important item with cannabis feeding/watering is PH. in soil your PH should be around 6.5, outside of this the plant will struggle to access nutrients it needs causing deficiencies and potential growth problems. General Hydroponics makes an affordable kit with PH up/down and test solution for about $15.

Good luck!

 

[oldskol4evr]

if just going with one nutrient in soil, an organic 1-1-1 will suffice.

most important item with cannabis feeding/watering is PH. in soil your PH should be around 6.5, outside of this the plant will struggle to access nutrients it needs causing deficiencies and potential growth problems. General Hydroponics makes an affordable kit with PH up/down and test solution for about $15.

Good luck!

they also make a NPK test kit for npk and ph testing 12 bucks amazon,i get your drift with the fert,1-1-1,but why give what not needed,no really check it out if you are locked why would you add same thing that locked it up,not in this case ,but say a sick plant,if every thing moves towards a p or k lockout isnt adding it back in just adding more of what did it?solution is dont add more of nothing ,check ph range,if ph is were it needs to be,im going with 6.5 on all the plants i grow veggie or medicine,not many plant grow very well at 7 in my opinion ,the sweet spot is 6.5,if the ph is right then the little test of npk would tell you what you have over abundance of,say phosphrus,why add anything that has it you dig what im saying

 

[420.hydro]

Many, many growers use 1-1-1 all the way through. (Example, Grow More - Sea Grow 16-16-16. Jack's Classic 20-20-20. MiracleGro Tomato 18-18-21).

Keep in mind that, after you do a simple ratio for awhile, you can customize the ratio very simply (without getting into franchised multi-bottle "lineups."). For example, you can mix MiracleGro All Purpose (24-8-16, or a ratio of 3-1-2) with an equal amount of Tomato to have a ratio 1.62-1-1.42. That's a decent veg ratio.

In flower, you can mix MiracleGro Bloom Booster (15-30-15, or ratio 1-2-1) to an equal amount of Tomato. That's ratio 1-1.45-1.09. That's pretty good for mid flower.

I don't think varying the ratio does much. I'm just saying, you can experiment this way without getting into a proprietary schedule. I have a spreadsheet which makes it easy (and safe) to mix things together. I can give it to you if you were interested in doing that. You can use things like fish emulsion to boost N in veg (the soil microbes love that stuff). Or, bat guano in flower to raise P. It doesn't have to be any particular product.

Hey AZ 2000
I'd be interested in taking a look at that spreadsheet...???? I'm looking to get away from a nute line...probably a bad time to switch since i'm wk 5 of flower but im almost out of canna & cx hort nutes also. thanks!!

 

[az2000]

Hey AZ 2000
I'd be interested in taking a look at that spreadsheet...???? I'm looking to get away from a nute line...probably a bad time to switch since i'm wk 5 of flower but im almost out of canna & cx hort nutes also. thanks!!

The spreadsheet is here. (<<link). Look at the README.pdf first. There are three examples. Once you understand how to do those three things (1. add a product; 2. resolve an existing schedule into NPK ratio & PPM; 3. create an NPK ratio using other products), it's very easy to use. You don't have to look at much of the spreadsheet. Just the cells with red backgrounds. Like a "dashboard."

There is a subdirectory containing some products I've captured the information for. Your products probably aren't in there. But, some products might be fun to play with. If you go back a directory you'll find "schedules" that I unwound into NPK ratios. That might give you ideas about how to organize what you do. (If you add products, and unwind a schedule, you could give me that info and I can add it. Maybe it would be useful to others.).

 

[az2000]

the difference between hydro vs soil nutes is true soil that has a clay content needs more P which is why soil formulas often have a higher P ratio.

That explanation came at a good time. I started a test grow using Kellogg Palm & Cactus potting mix (<<link) & MiracleGro Tomato (18-18-21). It's only been 8 days, but I haven't been thrilled. Seems starved for N. I used Tomato in a light soil before, and it too seemed mildly light on N for the first 2-3 weeks. But, this one seems considerably more.

I've been leaning toward feeding stronger (believing there's no nutrients in the cactus potting mix). I was also thinking of using MG All Purpose (24-8-16, ratio 3-1-2. Mixing one gram of All Purpose to one gram of Tomato creates a nice 1.62-1-1.42 ratio, at the same strength I fed Tomato in the past.). Being just a seedling (2-3 days ago, anyway), feeding strong made me nervous. I could feed lighter and get more N to the plan with All Purpose by itself.

So, I've been weighing that topics, trying not to act like a newbie, changing too many things too quickly, feeding too much, burning plants, etc. But, I'm increasingly leaning toward the 3-1-2 ratio. The cactus potting mix is essentially soilless. Sand and small wood chips. Not much typical organic matter to be "soil." I was thinking 3-1-2 would be too much N. I can never get to that ratio using my lightly soiled peat and perlite. But, now your explanation makes me think Tomato's 1-1-1.2 ratio might be too high in P since there's no clay/soil to interfere(?) with the P's availability. I'm probably going to roll the dice and use 3-1-2 by itself (not mix it with Tomato to get a more suitable ratio, by my standards).

I always wondered why 3-1-2 & 1-3-2 are popular hydro targets, but not really doable in soil. (To me, 1-3-2 is bloom-booster ratio. I only do that 1-2 times toward the end.).

 

[az2000]

transplanted into bigger pots of decent medium when they were about 3” tall. After 2 months of doing nothing but basic hydration ( top & bottom watering), they are about 2’ tall.

What medium did you use? To go 2 months without feeding, it must have been pretty good. Usually those soils burn, or become depleted by now. People tend to feed those soils to soon (and burn). Or, not prepare to feed (and then panic as the plant starts showing deficiencies). Personally, I like a light soil without much in it, and feed every watering. But, that's all I've ever done (besides soilless with hydro nutrients every watering, which is essentially the same thing. I switched to a light soil and soil nutes fed every watering).

If that soil was a truly living, composted, complete soil (I'm assuming it was if it lasted this long, but didn't burn the young plants), maybe you should be looking at "teas," "innoculants." That's what organic soil growers do. I don't think they get into NPK ratio because the soil has adequate amounts of everything, and the plant interacts with the microbes to supply what's needed? It's not like "force feeding" (which is more like what I think I do, supplying a diet each feeding.).

 

[Archie]

What medium did you use? To go 2 months without feeding, it must have been pretty good. Usually those soils burn, or become depleted by now. People tend to feed those soils to soon (and burn). Or, not prepare to feed (and then panic as the plant starts showing deficiencies). Personally, I like a light soil without much in it, and feed every watering. But, that's all I've ever done (besides soilless with hydro nutrients every watering, which is essentially the same thing. I switched to a light soil and soil nutes fed every watering).

If that soil was a truly living, composted, complete soil (I'm assuming it was if it lasted this long, but didn't burn the young plants), maybe you should be looking at "teas," "innoculants." That's what organic soil growers do. I don't think they get into NPK ratio because the soil has adequate amounts of everything, and the plant interacts with the microbes to supply what's needed? It's not like "force feeding" (which is more like what I think I do, supplying a diet each feeding.).

Thanks for the input! You’re not going to believe this, but I used basic potting soil from Dollar General...I know, sounds ludicrous...lol. I was just telling my wife that if I’d have forked out a few more bucks and bought the bags pre-fertilized, I might have been better for it. As aforementioned, I do have a simple certificate in Intro Horticulture from like 12 yrs. ago, so I actually remembered that too much of the wrong fertilizer can burn seedlings up. If I’m doing anything outside of the norm, it’s that I hydrate them with only rainwater, but not necessarily by choice. I live about 400 yds from Lake Superior, one of the largest salt-free lakes in the US. Unfortunately, my well only produces salt water, if you can believe that. It’s common up here. We soften the water to rid it of excessive iron and calcium, etc., but there’s no getting rid of the salt, so we get our drinking water from a local artesian well...best stuff ever, bar none! Anyway, my attempt at a first harvest isn’t necessarily haphazard, but rather intentionally simple and effortless so as to not be consumed by it while everything else in my life suffers a deficit...the curse of having severe, diagnosed OCD...ugh! Again, thanks for your input. If I have some smokable success with this harvest, I’ll probably try an indoor harvest thru the winter months. A side note: it occurred to me that we have an abundance of Canadian Geese up here, which means they produce tons of vegetative dung. I’m going to collect some to try in a future harvest...hope it’s something I can eventually brag about...lol.

 

[az2000]

You’re not going to believe this, but I used basic potting soil from Dollar General...

I googled and found "TrueLiving Outdoors - Professional Potting Mix - With fertilizer - Feeds up to 4 months."

$3 USD for 3.5 gallons? That stuff?

That's awesome. I'm totally into (reproducible) examples of growing cheap. Too often, new growers have to buy big-name stuff, multiple bottles; they'd supplement rainwater with "calmag" (which may be wise. Water from the soil picks up minerals rainwater doesn't.). If you look at most mad-scientist grows, you wouldn't get the impression that all it takes is a trip to Dollar General with $3, and pour water for 3-4 months.

I may try that, just to be another example that it works. As I mentioned before, I'm averse to pre-nuted soils. To me, it's easier/clearer to be in control. I see too many people those soils don't seem to work for. Or, there's bad quality control (suddenly grows go bad and the new bag of soil is believed to be put together wrong.). But, $3 to grow a 3gal pot?

 

[Archie]

I googled and found "TrueLiving Outdoors - Professional Potting Mix - With fertilizer - Feeds up to 4 months."

View attachment 889449​

$3 USD for 3.5 gallons? That stuff?

That's awesome. I'm totally into (reproducible) examples of growing cheap. Too often, new growers have to buy big-name stuff, multiple bottles; they'd supplement rainwater with "calmag" (which may be wise. Water from the soil picks up minerals rainwater doesn't.). If you look at most mad-scientist grows, you wouldn't get the impression that all it takes is a trip to Dollar General with $3, and pour water for 3-4 months.

I may try that, just to be another example that it works. As I mentioned before, I'm averse to pre-nuted soils. To me, it's easier/clearer to be in control. I see too many people those soils don't seem to work for. Or, there's bad quality control (suddenly grows go bad and the new bag of soil is believed to be put together wrong.). But, $3 to grow a 3gal pot?

Nope, they had that kind, but I chose the All Purpose stuff in the yellow bag. I’ll try my luck at attaching a pic below...

 

[Archie]

My tomato and sugar and mag fert all season...View attachment 889233

Wow, I’m impressed with how well those are flowering, if that’s what it’s called, but yet they don’t seem to be very tall. I too have my first grow all in one big pot (9 plants/12 gal. pot), which I did merely to simplify this first time. The tallest of them is now nearing 3’ and I think most of them are beginning to flower, which is to say the leaf structure is smaller and seem to be far more dense in the middle. I have yet to find a male as indicated by balls, but I am seeing fine hairs starting to accumulate around these tighter clusters, which I’m thinking will eventually be tight buds??? I know to watch for hermes, too. Anyway, I like what you’ve accomplished and will follow your procedure come the next grow. I have already purchased a concentrated liquid, organic 2-2-2 fertilizer, and have fed them once already at a 1-1-1 dilution. I chose this ratio based on the most basic formula that can be easily adjusted. I do believe that at my next feeding I am going to include the epsom/sugar diet you use with your TT. What I most wonder about your current crop is how it is that they seem so short yet so full of flowers/buds? I’m familiar with the topping method of stunting height and promoting girth, but it looks like you’ve got more going on than that...in other words, it looks like you’ve found a way to produce more of “the goods” in a minimal amount of space and without hardly any waste on the stems. If you feel so inclined, please feel free to elaborate. Thank you!

 

[az2000]

The tallest of them is now nearing 3’ and I think most of them are beginning to flower, which is to say the leaf structure is smaller and seem to be far more dense in the middle.

Can you take a photo of yours? I'd like to see what Dollar General potting soil does.

I am going to include the epsom/sugar diet you use with your TT.

IMO, 1 tsp/gal sugar sounds like too much to me. I have read that sugar can create a hypertonic condition, suck water out of the plant. I give a pinch of sugar per gallon just to offset the effect of chlorine in the tap water, help the soil microbes a little. It has been my impression that much more than that would be too much. I've never tried it. It may work wonders.

 

[Archie]

Can you take a photo of yours? I'd like to see what Dollar General potting soil does.



IMO, 1 tsp/gal sugar sounds like too much to me. I have read that sugar can create a hypertonic condition, suck water out of the plant. I give a pinch of sugar per gallon just to offset the effect of chlorine in the tap water, help the soil microbes a little. It has been my impression that much more than that would be too much. I've never tried it. It may work wonders.

Here’s a few pics...

 

[shaganja]

Now that Michigan has legalized recreational marijuana, I am trying my hand at growing some plants exclusively for personal consumption. I started my seeds (Colorado Bubba) via wetted, paper towel germination, planted seedlings in small paper cups, then transplanted into bigger pots of decent medium when they were about 3” tall. After 2 months of doing nothing but basic hydration ( top & bottom watering), they are about 2’ tall. Because of the atypical weather in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, they have yet to reveal their sex, but I’m being patient. Having a basic certificate in Introduction to Horticulture, I know my chances at a better product should include fertilization. I know that there are several schools of thought concerning fertilization (e.g., at various stages of growth, etc.), but I am looking for a basic NPK ratio that is suitable for all stages. This is not because I’m lazy and looking for the easy way out, but rather because I don’t have the time to invest that career growers obviously do. As aforementioned, I am merely interested in producing a decent product for personal consumption with the exception of treating family & friends to a decent buzz. So, that being said in almost book length (lol), do you have any suggestions and, if so, providing a trusty purchasing source would be a plus. TIA

I'm in the u.p. all plants are showing sex now. Unless you are doing land sativas

 

[Archie]

I'm in the u.p. all plants are showing sex now. Unless you are doing land sativas

Hey there fellow Yooper! I’m not sure what a land sativa is...I only know that the seeds are from from a strain called Colorado Bubba, acquired here in the U.P. from a friend’s personal harvest.

 

[shaganja]

Hey there fellow Yooper! I’m not sure what a land sativa is...I only know that the seeds are from from a strain called Colorado Bubba, acquired here in the U.P. from a friend’s personal harvest.

Landrace sativa.

 

[Archie]

To all above...it should also be noted that I live in a heavily wooded area, so unless I put my plants out on the road going East & West, I’m lucky to get 6 hrs. of direct sunlight, and that is quickly diminishing as the days grow shorter. This is the best I can do for outdoor growing, which is for sure better than what I would have been dealing with if I had not had to fall some 14 trees last summer for fear that they would eventually end up on our house. Poplar, Birch, and pine trees are aplenty here, and being so dense, they grow extremely tall in competition for sunlight, which makes their tops especially heavy and subject to being uprooted during heavy winds off of Lake Superior. I’m of the opinion that that’s why my plants are so tall...it goes with the territory. I’m thinking indoor grows might serve me best...lol.

 

[420.hydro]

Hey Archie
The girls look good....i'm kinda curious about the number of plants you have in one pot. If it was me I'd get bigger pots,1 for each 5 gal and transplant them ASAP. Each plant will get about 2"-3" in dia and you should be ready to get them indoors before frost. also the sunlight has started to diminish which triggers things within the plant...unless you know about a new technique or something??? also just my 2 cents