What are the Cons for using Peat and Perlite?

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WarpFactor8

WarpFactor8

It's the only thing I've ever used. Can't think of any cons, but maybe I'm missing something? I can think of cons with other medias without using them. That's why I chose peat and perlite.
 
WarpFactor8

WarpFactor8

Good video. Thanks.

The sustainability issue is not an issue to me. I chose peat over coco because peat can be watered like dirt, every three days. Coco needs daily watering. I wouldn't enjoy watering that often.

Both of them are more appealing to me than dirt because the media can be sterilized. Never having to deal with bugs is a big plus.
 
growsince79

growsince79

Good video. Thanks.

The sustainability issue is not an issue to me. I chose peat over coco because peat can be watered like dirt, every three days. Coco needs daily watering. I wouldn't enjoy watering that often.

Both of them are more appealing to me than dirt because the media can be sterilized. Never having to deal with bugs is a big plus.
Check out Mr Cannuck on youtube. He waters coco like soil. I guess it works either way. Cocoloco is another great prduct you can water like soil.
 
redshift75

redshift75

Good video. Thanks.

The sustainability issue is not an issue to me. I chose peat over coco because peat can be watered like dirt, every three days. Coco needs daily watering. I wouldn't enjoy watering that often.

Both of them are more appealing to me than dirt because the media can be sterilized. Never having to deal with bugs is a big plus.
you can sterilize all media to some extent. for the purpose of bugs or fungi. Some diseases can only be rid of from cooked soil. I hired a company to sterilize my soil when had it delivered. So semi good reason but not one id personally put my weight in as something that matters big picture. its too late in the season to cook soil outdoors now. But i can cook most my soil in a sun setup for my pots.
 
WarpFactor8

WarpFactor8

Sustainability of peat would be an issue to me if I
Check out Mr Cannuck on youtube. He waters coco like soil. I guess it works either way. Cocoloco is another great prduct you can water like soil.
Maybe it works for him, but I've seen many examples of noobs watering coco like soil and running into a lot of issues. I'm not willing to risk a crop if the only benefit is sustainability. I use two bags of peat a year. If I was runnning a cannabis farm, I'd be more inclined to factor sustainability. Beyond that, I don't see any advantage to watering coco like dirt. There is a minor advantage of being able to water it twice a day in terms of growth and yield, but not enough for me to care enough to switch to coco. I don't need more yield.
 
redshift75

redshift75

How are you going to sterilize something like FoxFarms Ocean Forest?
Same way you sterilize most soil or the way they sterilized it. But my method would be with steam. Thats kind of the basis for high heat composting that makes most of our soil sterilized at least during that portion of the process. where most your contaminants come after the cooking packing/transit, etc. Same way you end up with sterilized manure. You can even microwave it if you want your house to smell like crap and take all day doing a plate at a time. Lots of ways to pick that apple.


ive sterilized way crazier soil then the ocean forest. Ive sterilized straight rancid poo. But most people opt for the most basic approach and just compost. But they also tend to add lots of diseases to their compost in the process unknowingly. But if done right. You get almost same effect. With only a few really being bothersome in the compost category IMO.
 
growsince79

growsince79

Sustainability of peat would be an issue to me if I


Maybe it works for him, but I've seen many examples of noobs watering coco like soil and running into a lot of issues. I'm not willing to risk a crop if the only benefit is sustainability. I use two bags of peat a year. If I was runnning a cannabis farm, I'd be more inclined to factor sustainability. Beyond that, I don't see any advantage to watering coco like dirt. There is a minor advantage of being able to water it twice a day in terms of growth and yield, but not enough for me to care enough to switch to coco. I don't need more yield.
If you run coco with bottled nutes it's watered as you would growing hydro in rocks. With organics you water as you would soil. It takes a bit longer, but it works.
 
cemchris

cemchris

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You don't have to water coco everyday in big ass pots.

Perlite can lead to more frequent waterings sometimes if you consider that a con. Peat's only real con is the PH of it minus the sourcing of it.
 
WarpFactor8

WarpFactor8

The pH of the peat I use is usually 6 out of the bag. Perfect for the media. Haven't had any pH issues. Runoff is usually 5.8-6.2 pH.
 
WarpFactor8

WarpFactor8

The only issue I've had is the PPM of the runoff can get too high sometimes despite watering to 25% runoff. I just have to check the PPM and occasionally dial back the nutes or do a light flush. Not sure if coco is the same?
 
redshift75

redshift75

That kills all the bacteria. What is going to break down the worm castings, etc?
Considering the context of the original response this seems to be a contentious response. But im assuming you want a real answer, so will explain it as such. Hopefully it explains why it appears that way at face value by the time i finish. Dont take this the wrong way. Im just trying to spread more uniform knowledge then have a new beginner think only those are sterile mediums and that would be furthest thing from accurate. The goal here is to ensure people arent mislead, not in any way be negative to you or your position. So i will apologize in advance as i write this if any portion comes across that way in written context. As not my intent.


You add the good bacteria back in. Like you probably already do in the form of some commercial product. Thats probably the easiest thing to do in the entire equation. Which is the entire point of doing it. Kill it all and add the good. Thats the beauty of bacteria and fungi being asexual. Only need to inoculate it to encourage growth.

That is the difference between pasteurization(135-140F) and sterilization(180F). where pasteurization leaves some good microbes, Which is the basis for compost and its sterilization process with temps ranging from 135-170F. ***pasteurization is also known to leave nasty microbes as well and is only used on good soil where you want to eliminate the lower end of the spectrum. If you face say verticillium wilt you have to do 2+ hours at 180 degrees i believe. So pasteurization is largely a form of sterilization for healthy soil.

That is why when you sterilize you have to add the good microbes in or you create a medium for the bad to take over from seed or water contamination. If left untreated. But the goal is to sterilize to ensure all those good ones you have take over. Where the amendments can modify the microbe community composition and as a result, enhance the competition and/or antagonism among the microbes, leading to a decrease in plant pathogens activity.

This is why you sterilize then amend+plant.


In the most basic sense its as simple as just adding one or a few compost starter mixes back in and watch em go!


when speaking to sterilization and soil blends in the broad sense.
Not everything you use you want to compost before blending into the mix. Sterilization of certain mediums allows for faster mixing and usage of soil blends where you can use a sterile medium added to organic compost to go alot further(think - compost + manure blends). Foregoing the need to compost all of the medium, creating a longer working life. Helping to ensure reduced contamination, while giving one the ability to produce a healthier soil, with more nutritional value. The wrong mix of manure and you will find it will take nitrogen from your soil vs add it. Like if it has lots of bedding. Then there is the weed seeds its full of. Way too many reasons to list mainly because.....


At face value.... None of that matters in response to the phrase "Both of them are more appealing to me than dirt because the media can be sterilized." when they all can be sterilized. What does the microbes matter if you want to use a medium because it has no microbes? is the question i would ask. You tend to use them because they are sterilized and promote good 'microbe' growth. When all they do to sterilize coco is cook it at 180 degrees. So the same reasons you prefer those mediums, are the same standards i apply to any and all soil. Is the most basic answer to your question.

What it sounds like you are inferring is that you prefer them(as well as most who make the argument for them) because they come already sterilized because you dont want to sterilize your soil. Since they all can be sterilized. & Most should be sterilized in the rawest most unknown form.


Hopefully that explains why you can sterilize all mediums, why its ok, why you should do it, Why one is not better than the other simply because it has been sterilized. All of those mediums have their place, but i can assure you none of the reasons they are what they are has to do with sterilization. Maybe more to the high saprophytic capacity or other things. The fact it has more ability to home good microbes than bad vs say manure. But outright sterilization for me isnt even on the pro/con list for any medium. Simply because they all can be sterilized. But one should never confuse it having been sterilized at some point as being sterilized by the time you plan to use it. Doesnt work that way. Much like if you took a syringe out of the pack and left it on a counter. It was sterilized but is no longer going to be sterile. One cant assume after that coco traveled 4000km it has remained sterile in non sterile environments. Unless you sterilized it.


Im a firm believer in if you arent doing everything sterile you can only make attempts at sterility. Which tends to be more a lie we tell ourselves then actually sterile by the standards used at the highest levels.



I actually have 2 old ovens outside i use to cook my soil for pots. Hooked em up to propane tanks and bake em all. got them free on the side of the road. I use the bottom of a 55 gallon drum i cut off and can fit about 5cu ft per oven. but when i need to do a greenhouse or more than an acre. I call in the steamer.


Im actually working with the guy now to see if we can prepare fields using steam and not having to til. So far our testing has show great results. Could be on the track of preparing fields for no til, with no tilling.


*** means edits
 
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WarpFactor8

WarpFactor8

Of course you can sterilize dirt. You can sterilize anything. I'm saying it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay for a tried and true blend of beneficial microbes like FFOF or FFHF has then kill them and buy some more. Not sure why you wrote a novel about this, but I'm not arguing here. I just think it makes more sense to start with the most inert media if you are going to sterilize the media and see no advantage to using dirt.
 
redshift75

redshift75

Of course you can sterilize dirt. You can sterilize anything. I'm saying it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay for a tried and true blend of beneficial microbes like FFOF or FFHF has then kill them and buy some more. Not sure why you wrote a novel about this, but I'm not arguing here. I just think it makes more sense to start with the most inert media if you are going to sterilize the media and see no advantage to using dirt.
So you were being contentious. Thought so because who would ever say i use a medium that can be sterilized then argues about why would you sterilize. then tries to pretend they knew it could be sterilized all along.


I will also write a novel because nothing is worse then people spouting opinions while sharing no real tangible information on it why something is better. when its 100% false information. See I started to correct you and you dug this hole where you never made a point of fact once.


I honestly have to ask because you have made 2 contradictory statements.

"Both of them are more appealing to me than dirt because the media can be sterilized." or is it " Of course you can sterilize dirt. You can sterilize anything "


IM out though and dont care about a response mostly because the entire statement is you professing that you dont understand any of it. Yet will refuse to try to understand any of it.

I will add how laughable a situation it is to call ff a tried and true method and to say why would any one ever need to sterilize a bag. When they have admitted to infestations and even added Hypoaspis Miles for infestations. But yeah you are 100% right why would anyone ever in the history of cannabis need to sanitize those tried and true methods. That have never once ever had anything inside them. Not a single post on the internet or video by prominent growers ever touched on that subject.....
 
cemchris

cemchris

Staff member
Supporter
The pH of the peat I use is usually 6 out of the bag. Perfect for the media. Haven't had any pH issues. Runoff is usually 5.8-6.2 pH.
Key term "Out of the bag"

That is because it's already limed and treated. PH of peat naturally is usually around 4.
 
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