What helps makes a special strain.

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MIMedGrower

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Given the overwhelming choices that growers have to pick from in the post-legalization era it should follow that more variation will occur in the results. There is a correlation in dog breeding; the labradoodle was bred so that allergic blind people could have a hypoallergenic dog. This answers a specific need and the breed is popular. Many people won't/can't wait for full term photoperiod plants so they select autoflowering strains. Specific strains do different things and people describe highs and smells differently. Used to be Mr Coffee and Chock full of Nuts was exotic as coffee got and now.....



there sure are way more choices. I try to avoid new stuff for proven.
 
Frankster

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Reading though this is certainly interesting to say the least, everyone seems to have a strong opinion about what methods work best for them in finding soime of the better strains, or what works for them. I guess I agree with Mimed on much of what he's stated. I tend to think much of the newer stuff is just that newer stuff, and the older stuff is much more reliable in the results department. I'm not opposed to trying new things, but I've likely purchased a few thousand dollars in seeds over the past 5-7 years, and some of the best stuff I've come across was some of the cheapest, sometimes obscure places you would expect, costing me very little.

I certainly don't trust the so called "master breeders" out there anymore. What I have often got from them were either average/subpar genetics, someone's leftovers, or whatever. I've certainly got a few good doing this, but it's been hit and miss.

However, most anything old school that I've come across, regardless of source is virtually always solid, even from the more obscure sources. I just think it takes a lot of generation to work out many of the problems related to some of these newer strains. I think people sometimes get a bit too ambitious in what there mixing together. Crossing a newer strain with a newer strain IMO is just begging for problems. For me, many of the old school indicas show much higher stability, and consistency than anything else I've grown.
 
Dirtbag

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Reading though this is certainly interesting to say the least, everyone seems to have a strong opinion about what methods work best for them in finding soime of the better strains, or what works for them. I guess I agree with Mimed on much of what he's stated. I tend to think much of the newer stuff is just that newer stuff, and the older stuff is much more reliable in the results department. I'm not opposed to trying new things, but I've likely purchased a few thousand dollars in seeds over the past 5-7 years, and some of the best stuff I've come across was some of the cheapest, sometimes obscure places you would expect, costing me very little.

I certainly don't trust the so called "master breeders" out there anymore. What I have often got from them were either average/subpar genetics, someone's leftovers, or whatever. I've certainly got a few good doing this, but it's been hit and miss.

However, most anything old school that I've come across, regardless of source is virtually always solid, even from the more obscure sources. I just think it takes a lot of generation to work out many of the problems related to some of these newer strains. I think people sometimes get a bit too ambitious in what there mixing together. Crossing a newer strain with a newer strain IMO is just begging for problems. For me, many of the old school indicas show much higher stability, and consistency than anything else I've grown.

So what you are saying is that there are average or subpar genetics out there that, even in the hands of a good grower and good environment, would produce mediochre marijuana?
 
Anthem

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It seems as if we have not considered all of the options in this conversation. If genetics did not play such a great roll in the final product why is the clone market as it is. You have people on this site and other places getting $ 200 to $ 1000 for clones. Some go for so much at $ 10,000. If you could product great smoke from mediocre seeds why would someone pay these prices for top self genetics?
 
gorillaglueaaron

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It seems as if we have not considered all of the options in this conversation. If genetics did not play such a great roll in the final product why is the clone market as it is. You have people on this site and other places getting $ 200 to $ 1000 for clones. Some go for so much at $ 10,000. If you could product great smoke from mediocre seeds why would someone pay these prices for top self genetics?
Ok I'm not saying genetics has no effect but I'm saying the other ones are more important. People spend much more than $200-$1000 on lighting and environment.
 
MIMedGrower

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It seems as if we have not considered all of the options in this conversation. If genetics did not play such a great roll in the final product why is the clone market as it is. You have people on this site and other places getting $ 200 to $ 1000 for clones. Some go for so much at $ 10,000. If you could product great smoke from mediocre seeds why would someone pay these prices for top self genetics?


Hype and retail competition. I have not smoked any new clone only weed that made me happy like the Escd sour diesel cut. I blow away my friends clone only dispensary weed with seed plants all the time. He even smokes my stash over his.


so much hype.
 
BodaciousG

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Yup, stable clone only forum cuts. Who found them, experienced growers or inexperienced growers? How many seeds were popped before a superior cut was found. When I get genetics, I look for good genetics. If you pay that much for a clone, you better know how to grow. My first legal medical grow (inexperienced) was hydro and I grew swampys Free Leonard. Came out good and could have been better. Switched to soil and did better. Got reverse osmosis and weed tasted even better. All the time changing small things in my room to make it a better environment. Stable Genetics are certainly key, I don’t think anyone means to make bad beans and wants them all to be great. You have got to grow them out and see what you have, not sell them untested and wait for someone to buy them grow them and get bad reviews because that person had a a light leak in flower or the plants were over fertilized and taste bad.

There is probably a gem in there somewhere. Just need to find it.

What makes a special strain? if it is proven and someone else wants it.
 
Anthem

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Ok I'm not saying genetics has no effect but I'm saying the other ones are more important. People spend much more than $200-$1000 on lighting and environment.
I am not aware of a single light that costs $ 10,000. as I stated above. But someone will pay $ 10,000 for a clone to make thousands of plants.
I believe the original Post was what makes a special strain. And the disagreement is coming in the form of genetics or grower/environment. I have asked this question once and I will post it again. Lets take a plant that while it had just about every box checked it lacked potency, Purple Punch. How are you going to influence the plant by grow style or environment to increase potency? I am under the impression that the plants genetic make up will only allow it to reach a certain THC potential and all of the grow experience in the world will only push the plant to its maximum genetic expression. Where as @Dirtbag mentioned and I support the idea that a young grower can take great genetics in a so so environment and make dank weed. Secondly, I am not sure where I saw it but I believe you mentioned having trouble with some hot strains and then you tried growing Gorilla Glue and you had great success. Gorilla Glue is something that has great genetics. Additionally, there would be absolutely no reason for a breeders to breed based on seeds being seeds and genetics only play a small role in the overall quality. Finally, why would breeders crack thousands of seeds just to get that one special plant if genetics did not play such an important role in overall final product.
You can only bring the plant/strain to its maximum genetic potential. All the voodoo nutrients in the world or custom LED's are not going to allow the plant to reach beyond its maximum genetic potential. It is no different than saying you are going to take a child from parents with a genetic predisposition for being 5'6" tall and grow that child into a 7'0" starting NBA center.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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I am not aware of a single light that costs $ 10,000. as I stated above. But someone will pay $ 10,000 for a clone to make thousands of plants.
I believe the original Post was what makes a special strain. And the disagreement is coming in the form of genetics or grower/environment. I have asked this question once and I will post it again. Lets take a plant that while it had just about every box checked it lacked potency, Purple Punch. How are you going to influence the plant by grow style or environment to increase potency? I am under the impression that the plants genetic make up will only allow it to reach a certain THC potential and all of the grow experience in the world will only push the plant to its maximum genetic expression. Where as @Dirtbag mentioned and I support the idea that a young grower can take great genetics in a so so environment and make dank weed. Secondly, I am not sure where I saw it but I believe you mentioned having trouble with some hot strains and then you tried growing Gorilla Glue and you had great success. Gorilla Glue is something that has great genetics. Additionally, there would be absolutely no reason for a breeders to breed based on seeds being seeds and genetics only play a small role in the overall quality. Finally, why would breeders crack thousands of seeds just to get that one special plant if genetics did not play such an important role in overall final product.
You can only bring the plant/strain to its maximum genetic potential. All the voodoo nutrients in the world or custom LED's are not going to allow the plant to reach beyond its maximum genetic potential. It is no different than saying you are going to take a child from parents with a genetic predisposition for being 5'6" tall and grow that child into a 7'0" starting NBA center.


dont you see you are justifying what im saying about the crappy clone only’s. How can a “special” plant be not potent?

its all just marketing.

As far as getting more out of a poor plant. Why bother? It shouldnt be in the market. Better to just plant a new seed. With a good grow it could come out better than the clone easy.
 
Anthem

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I am going to ask one more question. How did we get from 8 percent THC to 32 plus percent THC. Did the sun be brighter? Did growers get better? Did selective breeding provide plants with genetics that can reach a higher THC content.
 
MIMedGrower

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I am going to ask one more question. How did we get from 8 percent THC to 32 plus percent THC. Did the sun be brighter? Did growers get better? Did selective breeding provide plants with genetics that can reach a higher THC content.


I want to know why 30% weed sucks so bad. When i entered in to this discussion i did not take into account how crappy the industry has become.

When i hit even a dab of current weed i immediately crave good flower instead.


weed used to be happy and uplifting and well, great. :-)

Now its mostly flat and boring and sleepy. Shame.
 
Anthem

Anthem

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I want to know why 30% weed sucks so bad. When i entered in to this discussion i did not take into account how crappy the industry has become.

When i hit even a dab of current weed i immediately crave good flower instead.


weed used to be happy and uplifting and well, great. :-)

Now its mostly flat and boring and sleepy. Shame.
You are trying to use a tactic to get around the question. While maybe you have not had much luck with 30 percent THC perhaps others have. To use the idea that the grower and the environment is what creates great smoke goes completely against the laws of nature. Survival of the fittest. The Plant is organic and nature will always prevail, even in this crazy world.
 
Dirtbag

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dont you see you are justifying what im saying about the crappy clone only’s. How can a “special” plant be not potent?

its all just marketing.

As far as getting more out of a poor plant. Why bother? It shouldnt be in the market. Better to just plant a new seed. With a good grow it could come out better than the clone easy.

Was this ever really about clones vs seeds though?

It was more about whats more important to create a great strain, genetics vs grower vs environment. Not whether seeds are better than hyped clones.

And everything youre saying kinda backs up my position that the genetics are the most important. Otherwise it can be grown by the most talented grower in the most high end facility, and still fall short of what you or I can produce at home with quality genetics.
 
Anthem

Anthem

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I want to know why 30% weed sucks so bad. When i entered in to this discussion i did not take into account how crappy the industry has become.

When i hit even a dab of current weed i immediately crave good flower instead.


weed used to be happy and uplifting and well, great. :-)

Now its mostly flat and boring and sleepy. Shame.
I find the cookies and cakes strains to be uplifting and a good happy buzz.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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Was this ever really about clones vs seeds though?

It was more about whats more important to create a great strain, genetics vs grower vs environment. Not whether seeds are better than hyped clones.

And everything youre saying kinda backs up my position that the genetics are the most important. Otherwise it can be grown by the most talented grower in the most high end facility, and still fall short of what you or I can produce at home with quality genetics.


I was talking about getting the most out of a plant. And i brought up cuts because you and i could grow the same cut and one could be much better than the other.

I believe as a general rule (and again i have not grown any what you call subpar genetics) the grow determines the results more than the genetics. I sure have had a seed mill bred plant come out better than a blue lemon thai. Good genetics are not a guarantee of success


Give a real sour diesel clone to 6 growers and see how different the final product can be.


i also think chasing new genetics is akin to chasing the dragon. I see no real improvement in genetics in 20 years. Only thc is higher because of greed in the new market. Weed was better before we needed to test that. And now apparently there are many bad seeds sold.

I agree to disagree because bad seeds should not have been sold in the first place.

been smoking over 35 years now. I liked some better than others but i have never seen bad well grown weed.
 
Dirtbag

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nothing like a good old jack herrer or power plant for example. So flat and staticky. (If thats a word)
You really do like your Sativas MiMed. And honestly finding plants with the true sativa buzz in new genetics is getting more difficult as plants get over hybridized, which is probably why you dont like much newer stuff. And its true that sadly bag appeal, or more appropriately being photogenic for insta pics is the main thing people seem to breed for these days. Which just proliferates bad genetics that look good. Its a classic Hollywood story.
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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You are trying to use a tactic to get around the question. While maybe you have not had much luck with 30 percent THC perhaps others have. To use the idea that the grower and the environment is what creates great smoke goes completely against the laws of nature. Survival of the fittest. The Plant is organic and nature will always prevail, even in this crazy world.


Have you ever had a bad plant and know for sure it was not grower error? And i dont mean a freak plant. I mean from a seed you purchased.
 
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