What helps makes a special strain.

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Dirtbag

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I was talking about getting the most out of a plant. And i brought up cuts because you and i could grow the same cut and one could be much better than the other.

I believe as a general rule (and again i have not grown any what you call subpar genetics) the grow determines the results more than the genetics. I sure have had a seed mill bred plant come out better than a blue lemon thai. Good genetics are not a guarantee of success


Give a real sour diesel clone to 6 growers and see how different the final product can be.


i also think chasing new genetics is akin to chasing the dragon. I see no real improvement in genetics in 20 years. Only thc is higher because of greed in the new market. Weed was better before we needed to test that. And now apparently there are many bad seeds sold.

I agree to disagree because bad seeds should not have been sold in the first place.

been smoking over 35 years now. I liked some better than others but i have never seen bad well grown weed.
Yeah we will have to agree to disgree on this one. Ive definitely seen excellent growers in amazing rooms grow shitty weed to perfection.
 
MIMedGrower

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You really do like your Sativas MiMed. And honestly finding plants with the true sativa buzz in new genetics is getting more difficult as plants get over hybridized, which is probably why you dont like much newer stuff. And its true that sadly bag appeal, or more appropriately being photogenic for insta pics is the main thing people seem to breed for these days. Which just proliferates bad genetics that look good. Its a classic Hollywood story.


i like a good indica too. And i prefer hybrids leaning to sativa so i get a good medical quality body buzz too.

deadhead og has been closest to perfect for me.

but i want variety all the time too.
 
Frankster

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LOL, your attempt to discredit what he's stating is so transparent. It's a lot of "what if's" Why would a "great grower" grow a "shit stain"? Wouldn't be much of a great grower, would he?

Lot's of hypothetical here.

Isn't that exactly how a "real" new strain is made? From a average landrace combined with a really great cultivar?
 
Dirtbag

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LOL, your attempt to discredit what he's stating is so transparent. It's a lot of "what if's" Why would a "great grower" grow a "shit stain"? Wouldn't be much of a great grower, would he?

Lot's of hypothetical here.

Lol really? Wow. Im not trying to discredit anyone, im standing behind my position that genetics are the most important variable.

I dont know why nobody seems to get it but meh, whatever. Im done defending my position on it.
 
BodaciousG

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What makes a special strain?
If it is proven and someone else wants it. Special
You made it and it fits your needs. Super Special
You made it, it's proven, you stand behind it and someone else wants it. Extra Special

All the other stuff helps.

Just to mention, I have noticed strains being renamed here in MI and called things they are not. I heard from a guy the other day that green crack is now a high CBD strain. I was fortunate in having a friend who paid a lot for forum cut clones 5 years ago and I got the trickle down effect. My garden was like a strain bank at one time. Only forum cuts I have left now are Blue Dream, Cherry Pie, Cannatonic 4, Elmer's Glue, 9# Hammer and Jesus OG. Wish I had that damn Chem Dawg back.
 
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Anthem

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Have you ever had a bad plant and know for sure it was not grower error? And i dont mean a freak plant. I mean from a seed you purchased.
I am afraid I have MiMedGrower. I popped some Dr. Gonzo stuff from DVG because I was stupid and thought he had great stuff. I put all 12 into water and paper towels. I think I got like 6 to sprout and 3 females. I flowered them and they just sucked. Small ass buds that just did not produce well. I do not think it was something I did that influenced the grow because I had them growing with other plants and the rest turned out and the stuff sold in a few days.
I believe part of why this discussion has different opinions may have to do with personnel preference. You mentioned Jack H. or whatever that stuff is called. I cannot stand those kind of strains way to speedy, makes me think I am on speed.
 
MIMedGrower

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Lol no im saying a great grower with a great grow grew a genetically inferior plant to perfection, and it was still shitty weed that nobody wanted to smoke.


oh sorry. Can you yell me an example of a strain or breeder this bad?
 
Frankster

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You made your position clear from the beginning. That's what I don't understand. Isn't anyone else entitled to their own position also?

I'm not even saying your wrong or right, it's just a position, that's all. It's an opinion.
 
MIMedGrower

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I am afraid I have MiMedGrower. I popped some Dr. Gonzo stuff from DVG because I was stupid and thought he had great stuff. I put all 12 into water and paper towels. I think I got like 6 to sprout and 3 females. I flowered them and they just sucked. Small ass buds that just did not produce well. I do not think it was something I did that influenced the grow because I had them growing with other plants and the rest turned out and the stuff sold in a few days.
I believe part of why this discussion has different opinions may have to do with personnel preference. You mentioned Jack H. or whatever that stuff is called. I cannot stand those kind of strains way to speedy, makes me think I am on speed.


I agree. I said strain choice should be separate. But we all go off on tangents.

And i have never heard of dr. Gonzo and dont know dvg. I bet with strainly so popular a lot of bad seeds and cuts are getting out now that i am realizing the scope of the market.
 
MIMedGrower

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You made your position clear from the beginning. That's what I don't understand. Isn't anyone else entitled to their own position also?

I'm not even saying your wrong or right, it's just a position, that's all. It's an opinion.


we have all gone deeper into this discussion. I didnt get the feeling there was a fight.
 
Frankster

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I guess what I"m saying is this, that cannabis strains are highly subjective, and left to be interpreted by the end user. Personally, I smoke some strains that I know other people won't touch, like some of the heavy indicas I smoke. I like the earthy tones, others don't. I think there great strains, other people think there shit.

Some like it sweet, other's just care about intensity, or focused on the head or body high that it produces. There are simply so many "subjective" components when your talking about strains.

Then, some of those strains have so many different objective qualities also, such as ease of growth, indoor or outdoor capacity, growing 20 foot high, or 1 1/2 foot high, or are extremely difficult to cultivate, but have some sort of quality about them, that people are willing to go to any extent to cultivate.

So many difference, so many qualities, and everyone has a different opinion about "ideal"
 
Anthem

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I guess what I"m saying is this, that cannabis strains are highly subjective, and left to be interpreted by the end user. Personally, I smoke some strains that I know other people won't touch, like some of the heavy indicas I smoke. I like the earthy tones, others don't. I think there great strains, other people think there shit.

Some like it sweet, other's just care about intensity, or focused on the head or body high that it produces.
I believe the focus of the discussion is does genetics or grower/environment make the end product what it is.
 
Frankster

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What? We're trying to prove our view. What's wrong with that?

I don't think anything can be proved here, beyond the shadow of a doubt, it's all pretty much subjective for the most part, I believe. However, If it was just about "genetics", there would only be one (or a few) strains out there everyone would be smoking, but that's not the case at all. There's over 10,000 known cultivars.

over 10,000 of them, and I bet most of them aren't "shit strains" (but again, this is opinion, and others will likely disagree).

So many times, I've grown a strain and said "hmmp" then put it down unimpressed. Gone about things and a year or so later grown the (same) seeds in another run, and bam! Knocked it out of the park, with the same seed stock, only to be highly impressed with the results. That's got to mean something, and if others have experienced the same thing, it almost certainly does.

How many times have you got seeds from a grower and the plant didn't turn out even remotely like the plant you thought you were buying?

Either a reputable person sold me crap, or I somehow my condition were different, or my ability level was lacking. Sometimes, I just have to face the facts, and a little self introspection is not necessary a bad thing. I don't have an aversion to being wrong sometimes, nor with admitting when it happens.

But I do have an aversion to doing something wrong over and over again. I seek to learn from my mistakes, instead of projecting it onto something else.
 
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gorillaglueaaron

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I think the problem with this discussion is there are so many variables to each side. If you go to the extreme and find the best and worst of each variable then obviously environment is #1 because you can grow with bad genetics but you cant grow with 1 ppf but nobody is going to grow without a light. If you have a 30% thc plant and an 8% thc plant with the same environment then obviously the 30% one will do better. There are just too many variables to consider and even if you knew all the variables, then you still can't argue that one is more important than the other because they all do different things.
 
gorillaglueaaron

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I don't think anything can be proved here, beyond the shadow of a doubt, it's all pretty much subjective for the most part, I believe. Or there would likely only be one strain out there everyone would be smoking.
You're arguing your point as well. So are we not allowed our opinion? No, we are, we're both just arguing our side.
 
BodaciousG

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To many choices, not enough time.

When THC went from 8% to 32%? Some was better than others. Then we started growing our own and learned that culling the males made a big difference and the bud also tasted a lot better without the seeds and dirt. Making those beans through genetic manipulation made the THC go even higher. Mexican dirt weed sprayed with paraquat, Those were the days.
 
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