What is wrong with my plants?

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VapeIt

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I was given these plants 3 weeks ago.
What have I done wrong?

They are vegging under a Floro Grow Light.
They are in 1.5g white buckets.
I transplanted the 6 days ago into fresh coco.
I am using House & Garden - Coco A&B and Roots Excelurater.
I water them 1 cup everyday. Water PH is 5.8.

First pic is 2 weeks ago. Next 2 pics are from today.

Thanks for any help.
 
What is wrong with my plants
What is wrong with my plants 2
What is wrong with my plants 3
V

VapeIt

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Thanks for the help. I don't think they could be over watered. I do not get any runoff and the coco is pretty dry.

I use the 7mil per gal of A and B mix. 1mil Roots.
Should I use just water every other day?

I forgot to mention that the first pic is from over a week ago. The next 2 pics are from today.

Thanks you.
 
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farmerjohn

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Progressive nutrient burn! Totally cut the fertilizer until new growth does not show signs of leaf tip burning. Just to be sure, double check heat, distance from lights, etc., in case there are other factors acerbating the chemical burn. When it is safe to restart fertilizing, begin with 1/4 the amount you were using & gradually build up to recommended dosage.
 
xX Kid Twist Xx

xX Kid Twist Xx

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its a mG deficency are you using cal-mag? if not pick some up and add it into your program.
 
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VapeIt

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Thanks guys,
Kid Twist - I am just using the 3 things I listed. I will look for CalMag. Will some Epsom salt work for a day or two until I get to the Hydro shop?

FarmerJohn - They are @ 2ft tall now. I am using the Cana A&B at the rate on their chart. Should I just use plain PH'd RO water for a few days?

I think light distance is good, I am worried that I do not have enough light. Temp is 70-80. Humidity 50-70%.

Thanks again.
 
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farmerjohn

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If I had a nickel for every time cal-mag was suggested as a remedy, I wouldn't need to grow! How can every plant with a problem be magnesium deficient? Now, don't get me wrong, twist may even be right, since the problem appears to be magnifying as time goes by. So, scraping a few slivers of magnesium into the soil or as twist suggests, adding some cal-mag, probably won't hurt. Might even help. It's just the photos suggest to me fert burn. So what ever you do, stop fertilizing @ least one of the plants & see what happens. If it is mG deficient, my suggestion will do nothing & the symptoms will progress. If it isn't mG deficient, adding cal-mag will do nothing to solve the problem.
 
Camdawg

Camdawg

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the leaves don't appear to be folding upwards as with a Mg deficiency so i think you've got an overfert problem. most high end nute charts are too hot for most strains(not all nutes not all strains) youre using a floresent so light burn is all but out of the question.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Thanks for the help. I don't think they could be over watered. I do not get any runoff and the coco is pretty dry.
Betcha you've got a build-up of nutes causing a lock-out. This is why so many experienced growers really like to water/feed until they get at least 20% run-off. They look either burned, or nute-locked to me. I think I have some photos of some girls from a couple of years ago that look a lot like that, but damn if I can remember how I worked it out. They were in soil, too, rather different beast.
I use the 7mil per gal of A and B mix. 1mil Roots.
Should I use just water every other day?

I forgot to mention that the first pic is from over a week ago. The next 2 pics are from today.

Thanks you.

Progressive nutrient burn! Totally cut the fertilizer until new growth does not show signs of leaf tip burning. Just to be sure, double check heat, distance from lights, etc., in case there are other factors acerbating the chemical burn. When it is safe to restart fertilizing, begin with 1/4 the amount you were using & gradually build up to recommended dosage.
Totally cut it in coco? Hmm...

VapeIt, I've got a couple of questions for you.

First is do you check and adjust the pH of your mix? If not, again, with coco you must or you'll quickly get lockouts, etcetera. Primo pH for coco is 5.8-6.2, and most folks like to keep it at an even 6.0 for peace of mind and ease of use.

Second is, is there a reason why you don't feed to the point of at least some run-off?

If you're letting the coco dry out completely between feedings/waterings, and you're not feeding/watering to the point of run-off, my guess, based on very limited experience, is that you've got a build-up of nutrients in the media. Personally, I would recommend a flush with RO water one day, then start feeding again with lower dosing rates (for instance, if you use 5ml/1tsp of Canna A, then cut it down to 2.5ml/1/2tsp.

I am completely unfamiliar with the Canna line, but if I recall I believe that others have said it does not require supplementation with calcium & magnesium. That said, you should know that coco has some interesting properties that create a situation where the coco itself locks onto calcium and magnesium in a manner such that the plant can't use it. This is why coco growers are always on about Ca/Mg.

The other bit, which I cannot explain very well, is that this can create problems with phosphorous (P) overload or lock-out, and that's the problem I'm thinking you have, not Ca or Mg.

And, all of that said, you should know that I personally am not 100% positive that that's the problem you're having here (the phosphorous bit). I *am* positive that you have to begin checking, and adjusting if necessary, the pH of your feed, and if you're not using reverse osmosis (RO) or other low TDS water, you will find it necessary after this grow. I know I did.
 
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farmerjohn

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I think we have a solution for this now. Thanks to Seamaiden's input. I have never grown in coco, always in soil or mother earth, so have no insight into coco related problems. Using my eyes, I see a progressively accelerating nutrient burn pattern emerging. The remedy appears to be stop fertilizing & take to heart the maiden's suggestion about runoff & RO water. I think if you cease the ferts & monitor runoff to get a further hint of what is happening deep in the coco, these plants will recover, in time. I also think if you continue the nutrient schedule you have run up to this point, you will lose the plants. Once ferts are halted, new growth should not show leaf tip discoloration. At least, as soon as any excess has been purged from the medium.
 
xX Kid Twist Xx

xX Kid Twist Xx

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look in the 1st pic theres is barley any tip burn on the leaves. if it was to much you would see alot of burnt tips. also the last pics of the leaves show heavy purple stems and lighter coloring of the leaves caused by the plant pulling nutes out of the leaves. you don't usually get purple stems from toxin a plant out. and if it is caused by to much P, then the addition of cal-mag will offset this.

do what you want. just take one plant and add cal-mag to it and see how it responds if you are worried.

you will not hurt a plant by adding cal-mag
 
M

MyRelief

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my .01

Additionally, did the coco actually dry out between a watering...if so, any amount of fertz hitting those dry root ends (can) meaning not every time but possible to burn like that. I had that same stuff you got...played with it and then tried this on purpose to another one just entering veg state from cutting and bamm it burned like that....minimal nutes but the dry coco just didnt buffer like maybe soil does.

dry coco medium and liquid fertz = bleach in the eyes.

and yes you can burn leafs with fluro's..done it one too many timez...that I find more strain dependent as some are more resiient while others are sensitive little girls crying like babies. some will just grow right up into those tubes while I know blackberry was one that just scorched sometimes even just right up close.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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Great find, Kid! A foliar of Epsoms would be my method of choice for working with a Mg deficiency.
 
V

VapeIt

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Thanks for all the info and help.
I am sure there is more info that I have not given that would help you all out even more.

I have several strains that make up these 24 plants. I am sure that I have more than just one problem in the garden. These photos may not have been from the same plants or strain and not all the plants are showing this,

Kid Twist - I had a LOT of leaves look like what you linked to last week. That was before I transplanted. The top new growth seems to be fine. I will add 1 tsp Epson salt to PH water today.

My Relief - The Coco does not seem to be drying out between waterings, I can feel moisture an inch or 2 down. I am using 1 cup of water a day in 1.5g buckets.

Seamaiden - Water/nutes are RO water and PH's to 5.8. I lowered that to 5.5 for the last 2 feedings, but will up it to 6.0 from today. I thought if I watered until runoff that that would be too much water.nutes. I will try it from today.

FarmerJohn, Seamaiden, Chemdog - I will cut the nutes in 1/2 of what the label says from Monday.


Many of the leaves tips are curling up. What causes that?
Can too much water (not nutes) cause them to droop like they would with not enough water?
I have put them in a readygro coco that calls for once a day watering - not the 3x day coco.

Solution so far: I skipped 1 day of water/food. I will water only today (with a little Epson salt) and start using 1/2 the nutes from Monday. I am also thinking about switching to nutes only every other day/watering.

Thanks for all the help. I hope I didn't miss anything.
 
V

VapeIt

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More pics from yesterday.

leaf on the right is a view from the bottom. It's hard to tell in the pic, but it has basically folded downward along the ridge.

Than you.
 
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xX Kid Twist Xx

xX Kid Twist Xx

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cool bro good luck. what you wrote in the last post from all the info you collected in this thread you should have no problems in the future. since you are using r/o water i would get a cal-mag supplement, it will help you with cal-mag and iron since your r/o system filters that out. botanicare's is what i use their cal-mag +.
 
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farmerjohn

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Hopefully all this will lead you to a solution to your problem, vape. Plz let us all know how it is going & what you ultimately think solves the crisis.

Side note to Kid Twist. Plz pardon the tenor of my previous post concerning cal/mag. Being a soil farmer, I have no basis in coco & often forget that those two additives are frequently missing in a coco setup, which may account for so many problems farmers using that medium must wrestle with. With soil, you rarely see either deficiency & for those of us wise enuff to use Peter's products, especially Bloom Buster, you will never have to deal with it! If, in fact, our maligned farmer vape, has a mG or calcium deficiency, then consider this a full blown apology.

However, being the stubborn old goat, that I am, I was glad to hear vape has decided to cut back on the fertilizer. This action will not harm the plants, regardless of the basis of his problem. Over fertilization may well be a contributing factor in the many symptoms he is experiencing @ the present time. In my experience, Mary Jane always tells us when she is lacking nutrients, with plenty of time to correct the situation. On the other hand, she will scream bloody murder, curl up & die, when we are over feeding her to the point of toxicity or lock-out. Often with no more than a few symptoms appearing. Once we reach that point, we can only cut the ferts & play the waiting game, as we wait for the systems to clear out the overload of expensive fertilizer. @ best we get new growth that is healthy. @ worst, we lose the plant(s). Never wanting to see any farmer's hard labor end up in crop losses, I jumped on the "cut the ferts" bandwagon, as per my usual. In all of botany, there may be no more over fertilized plant, than marijuana! Sometimes, one would think we are growing orchids!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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It was a heck of a concept for me to wrap my own head around, farmerjohn. I thought since the well water I have is high in both carbonate and general hardness that I likely had enough of each element. Then I learned just that one bit about coco and how it can upset the balance and how soil really does "buffer" things and that they're different, then my head got a little more wrapped.

This is easily as exacting as keeping miniature reef aquaria.
 
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farmerjohn

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lol Touche! I tried some on my gout & I'll be damned if it didn't clear it up in a coupla hours! I'll just never truly understand the needs of those farmers growing in coco puffs! I did a run in Count Chocula, 'cause right on the label it said, magnesium, calcium, iron, hell, I think it had some bat guano in it, if memory serves!

Seriously, my condolences for having to water 17 times a day, fertilize to the point of run-off being classified as nuclear waste material & having to eat soggy cereal for weeks after harvest! Us soilees, just don't know how ez we have it! 'course ur nugs are potentially bigger & badder, which is a great trade off.

Now really seriously. Good luck with the cal/maging, vape. If you could find it in your heart to under fertilize @ least one of the ladies for a few days, I'd consider it a personal favor. No cal/mag for her, either. Just until ur sure.
 

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