What nutrients to run with coco to get those huge buds?

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JohnnyScience

What nutes? Using RO water, Botanicare coco, Airpots on top feed

I need some help figuring out exactly what nutes I'll need.

Here is what I'm going to run:

RO water
Botanicare brick coco
25% perlite mixed in (not sure which brand yet?)
3.4g air pots
Top feed watering system (not sure how or what system exactly if anyone can suggest that'd be great. I've read that blumats is a really good system but some people also had problems with it)

So what nutes are needed?

I know you normally have to run Cal/Mag+ When using RO, but do any of these coco specific A&B nutes such as Canna coco and H&G coco already have added cal/mag in their coco mix?

I understand that the Cal/mag PLUS by Botanicare has the addiction of iron, so it would be beneficial in using this nute, but if Canna coco A & B has higher levels of cal/mag then adding cal/mag + would cause issues with cation exchange.

So what's the verdict with Canna coco A&B when using it with Botanicare coco and RO water?

I've also read that Botanicare using a bad pesticide in their cal/mag solution, is this true and if so what would be a better brand of cal/mag+ ?

Also, at what point is Epsom salt figured into this equation? If I don't use cal/mag+ or regardless if I do run it or not I must run Epsom?

And I've seen people mention Mykos is great for coco, what is this mad how does it help?

Thanks.
 
dankworth

dankworth

5 tbls/100 gals! NOT 5 tbls/gal! Sorry!

If you buy Botanicare's CNS-17 line for soil/coco, and use RO water, and add the correct amount of magnesium sulfate(epsom salts) you should not have any nutrient deficiencies.
There was a dude around like a year and a half ago by the name of fatman. He was rather smart, but lacking in social skills. Anyway, he pointed out the need to tailor the NPK values to the medium, and whether or not you recirculate. I saw the wisdom of his argument, and ended up switching to coco drain-to-waste. I saw that he recommended a 3-1-2 formula for veg and a 2-2-3 for flowering.
So I had Botanicare Cal-Mag and Advanced 3-part. I hand-calculated how to get within 1-10% of fatman's values with those four products.
It rocked! It was awesome! for Chocolope(pretty sativa dominant) and Chemo x OG kush(indica dominant). The Chocolope just needed less food, but the same ratios.
I added 1 ml/gal of Dyna-Gro Pro-tekt(potassium silicate) all through veg and flower. You HAVE to use silicates. Use whatever brand you like, but use some form of silicate. It helps so much with yield.
And use the MOAB/hammerhead combo. Last 2 weeks of feeding, cut base nute ppms in 1/2, and add 2.5 ml/gal of hammerhead, and 5 tbls/100 gal of Mother of All Blooms. Look it up, it came from Greenthumbdanny. Best PK boost there is. Then flush for two weeks.
I later realized that my awesome formula from fatman was just Botanicare's CNS-17 line. And like 1/3 of the cost per gallon that I was paying doing it my way.

Start your res with the silicate. Be sure to add epsom salts second(1-2 grams/gallon depending on size of plants), and make sure the salts are well diluted. You will want to shake the CNS-17 well, and dilute it a lot before adding to the res third. Make sure it is well mixed. Do not rush these parts. If you rush it you may cause nutrient lockup in the res and therefore deficiencies in your plant.
Feed the veg formula through wk 1 of flower. Week 2 do 1/2 veg and 1/2 flower food. Then only flower food until time for the PK boost in last 2 weeks of feeding.
If you see cal deficiencies it means that you either need to get more runoff, or you need to calibrate your ph meter, but in general you can fix deficiencies in coco by feeding at a higher strength.
Those airpots are cool. I made a ghetto version of them. They work well.
And you can add flavor and aroma with hydrolysates(fish or vegetable)
And EWC teas are cheap, and awesome. Some peeps have claimed they picked up an extra 1/4 pound a light with teas.
This has been my experience. I can state for a fact that this formula absolutely works for the 2 cultivars stated. I believe it would work well for others. It is also very cost efficient. It has all of what you need, and none of what you don't need.
You will produce banging meds with this formula.
If you want to start simple with the hippie additives, use Floralicious Plus @ 1ml/gallon.
Oh and use Drip Clean from house and garden. It will keep you from salt accumulation and lockout. You can get away with less runoff and be fine if you run Drip Clean. You should google it. It is very important with coco.
Hope this helps.
Oh and the Mykos thing? Beneficial organisms. If you want the best ratio of active ingredient(spore count) per dollar, look up Capulator and his bennies on this site. By far the best value per dollar. Especially if you brew them into teas. The beneficial bacteria and fungi will colonize your rootzone and make your plant kick more ass. You will veg faster and flower more successfully.
Because we get paid to flower, not to veg. So knocking one week off your veg time with bennies really pays off on an annual basis.
 
M

mrduke

I'm running botanicares pure pro bloom soil its a 1 part and is doing great i add cal mag at 4ml /g havent finished a run yet this is my first go with it I add koolbloom for final 5 weeks then flush. flood drain in 2 gal pots not a prblem. everyone say it hard to run f&d with coco but it supper easy i just flush each plant when i replace the res. i pump about a gallon or so thru each pot then it goes in to the res and i fill up the rest then add nuts to reach 1200 ppm and oof she goes till next week. works like a charm 3 cycles 3different nute line no problems.
 
Illmind

Illmind

dankworth, nice post buddy. anybody that names a thread 'what nutrients to run with coco to get those huge buds' is lacking experience and imo u could have purest nutes and best yielding clone alive but without experience it means nothing. post a few grow logs so people can c what u working with. for all we know your using a 150w hps in a 12x14 basement. nutes are a fraction of whats needed. i c ppl who use lucas formula with no additives grow better then someone with 1,000$ worth of shit. u want big buds a 600w and or 1k is a must. it can be achieved with under that but the density is extremely noticable. instead of sitting around waiting for the magic recipe make your own or use someone elses. there a lot of ppl threads that grow coco n post their feeds. browse and expirement. once u find the right plant, dial environment, dial feeds, and air tight every detail shit hums. but there is tons of work needed to get there. u get what u put in. dankworth hit u with some good advice start there
 
deep buddy

deep buddy

canna on canna

i use canna coco A and B dripped on canna coco w/ no cut. i use the whole line at much lower than suggested strength. i swapped hyrgrozyme for the cannazyme. i never go more than 7 mls a gallon on my base nutes i do add 3 mls or so of cal-mag plus and the 1 ml a gal pro tekt. i had alot of trouble when i didnt add the cal-mag plus. some peeps say they dont use cal mag w/ the canna base but for me its a mandatory. hope that helps. you just have to follow the curve with the coco. once you get it locked in youll love it.
 
F

FastForward

I'm the same as Deep Buddy - full range of Canna (at listed strengths). If you have soft water, you will need to use Cal Mag as it is formulated for hard european water. I've got dirty european water so I don't need to.

The secret to growing big buds in coco is this:

TREAT COCO LIKE SOIL AND YOU WILL GET SOIL-LIKE RESULTS...

...BUT TREAT COCO LIKE HYDRO AND YOU WILL GET HYDRO-LIKE RESULTS.


The very bottom line is that it comes down to frequency of feeding. The more you feed in flower, generally speaking, the more buds. When you feed you draw air and nutes into the rootzone, which is what they love. Understandably most people who handwater coco don't feed more than once daily...but in mid flower they love it especially. You should aim to feed vegging stuff every other day, and flowering stuff daily at least. Forget a wet-dry cycle. Never let your pots dry out or get too light.

Hope this helps

FF
 
dankworth

dankworth

These guys all have awesome points. You absolutely need 600w-1k, 1k preferred, for the bigass buds.
They pointed out environment. Creating an optimized environment has more to do with yield than probably anything else. Give them the best day of summer every day, or as close to it as you can get, and your yield shoots way up. And keep your nighttime temps from being too cold. This is a big one for yield.
And read all the coco threads you can. There is always something new to learn from people here. Be sure to ask questions.
Oh and watch out for humidity with those big colas. Be sure they don't get exposed to too much humidity, or bud rot could become a concern. Always seems to want to hit the biggest, most prizewinningest colas unless humidity has been managed well for the last 1/2 of flower.
 
SweetTooth

SweetTooth

I'm the same as Deep Buddy - full range of Canna (at listed strengths). If you have soft water, you will need to use Cal Mag as it is formulated for hard european water. I've got dirty european water so I don't need to.

The secret to growing big buds in coco is this:

TREAT COCO LIKE SOIL AND YOU WILL GET SOIL-LIKE RESULTS...

...BUT TREAT COCO LIKE HYDRO AND YOU WILL GET HYDRO-LIKE RESULTS.


The very bottom line is that it comes down to frequency of feeding. The more you feed in flower, generally speaking, the more buds. When you feed you draw air and nutes into the rootzone, which is what they love. Understandably most people who handwater coco don't feed more than once daily...but in mid flower they love it especially. You should aim to feed vegging stuff every other day, and flowering stuff daily at least. Forget a wet-dry cycle. Never let your pots dry out or get too light.

Hope this helps

FF

Thats the best coco advice I have read on this site! +rep
 
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