What PH for HGV Nutrient Salts?

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Thats to much credit my friend, I'm not a expert on HGV or Athena, but I know some guys running it and killing it with it, so I've been trying to learn as much as I can from them about it, even though I always mixed my own I've been on the jacks side of ratio's but I find Athena very intriguing. HGV is basically the same , but this is really the way I see it there is a couple way to skin a cat, each has it own way and methods and is done a little differently but in the end both gets you to the same place.
Think you understate you knowledge there but nothing wrong with being humble
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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why are they doing that in the first place, the motive to have way more K than N?
well I don't have all the answers thats for sure but, in flower a wider K to N will cause the plants to finish quicker the bigger the ratio the faster finishing to a point, also I don't have the data but told by a guy that does, a wider K to N ratio will produce bigger heavier bud, overall more weight as opposed a tighter K to N ratio it wouldn't give you as much weight but better cannabinoids etc.
 
M

markcannabinhumanoid

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Thats to much credit my friend, I'm not a expert on HGV or Athena, but I know some guys running it and killing it with it, so I've been trying to learn as much as I can from them about it, even though I always mixed my own I've been on the jacks side of ratio's but I find Athena/HGV very intriguing. HGV is basically the same , but this is really the way I see it there is a couple way to skin a cat, each has it own way and methods and is done a little differently but in the end both gets you to the same place.
Hey man, just for want to get to the bottom of a question going around in my head. I have two buddies who advise me on what schedule to use and how to grow. I am using HGV salts with Coco, 1700e LEDs, EC 3.0 and PH 5.7. One buddy suggested me to water at 6.2-6.5, the other one says that if I go above 5.8, the salts would cause the roots to burn and it could probably kill my plants over time. Now I don't know which one is true and I couldn't find any answers on the internet. But as I'm finding out, maybe I'm giving too much nutrient for my plants, and that's possibly stunting their growth and browning the large leaves at the top of my plants. Any piece of advice would be appreciated.
 
N1ghtL1ght

N1ghtL1ght

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well I don't have all the answers thats for sure but, in flower a wider K to N will cause the plants to finish quicker the bigger the ratio the faster finishing to a point, also I don't have the data but told by a guy that does, a wider K to N ratio will produce bigger heavier bud, overall more weight as opposed a tighter K to N ratio it wouldn't give you as much weight but better cannabinoids etc.
thanks!
I've started fiddling around with Bor now too and bought an organic-mineralic powder containing Colemanite (+some other organic derivates) and increased my soil to min. of 20mg/l B. I could see a slight tipburn in fresh soil but it's not drastic and goes away after some time. It's kind of yellow instead of the typically whitish colour and I wonder if it's even Bor related? Maybe S? (I changed a few ingredients).
Did your collegue that experimented with high B dosages got to see any early warning signs when transitioning into a toxicity?
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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thanks!
I've started fiddling around with Bor now too and bought an organic-mineralic powder containing Colemanite (+some other organic derivates) and increased my soil to min. of 20mg/l B. I could see a slight tipburn in fresh soil but it's not drastic and goes away after some time. It's kind of yellow instead of the typically whitish colour and I wonder if it's even Bor related? Maybe S? (I changed a few ingredients).
Did your collegue that experimented with high B dosages got to see any early warning signs when transitioning into a toxicity?
I never did any testing B in soil or organics it was all in hydro or some rockwool, way back when we was doing that our b applications was based around plant needs, so basically there didn't seem to be a big need for extra b during most of veg but at transition where there is higher Ca needs and going into flower/stretch where there is a lot of new growth bud set etc we would increase B and that would carry into early flower for bud growth, the other guys I knew doing it were more extreme then us, now there is many variables in this and back then we was running a lot different nutrient ratios then of today, I can't say for how its going to work in organics but I think you should be safe with a 2-3 ppm bump, when I was in sunshine not that long ago I did one time bumps 5ppm of B at flip and never seen any tox. I can't remember off the top of my head for sure I'd have to go check my stuff but I think it goes the higher N in the solution the less B can be used the lower the N the more B can be used. I think thats how it goes
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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Hey man, just for want to get to the bottom of a question going around in my head. I have two buddies who advise me on what schedule to use and how to grow. I am using HGV salts with Coco, 1700e LEDs, EC 3.0 and PH 5.7. One buddy suggested me to water at 6.2-6.5, the other one says that if I go above 5.8, the salts would cause the roots to burn and it could probably kill my plants over time. Now I don't know which one is true and I couldn't find any answers on the internet. But as I'm finding out, maybe I'm giving too much nutrient for my plants, and that's possibly stunting their growth and browning the large leaves at the top of my plants. Any piece of advice would be appreciated.
Ok there is so many variables that nothing is really absolute, are either one of your buddies running the same light and setup as you ? and are they growing in coco , coco can have it own issues especially if its not buffered correctly but your in flower right ? my question would be are you sure your getting enough runoff to control EC in medium and are you controlling dry backs properly, and have you checked root zone PH. Honestly your nutes could have been locked up or under fed without being there or seeing it its hard to say. are your root healthy, what about the rooms environment? your buddies are telling you 2 different things because there rooms may seem the same but be a lot different, no what I mean. make sure all your basics are covered plenty runoff, EC out PH in and out, make sure environment is as good as its going to be temps, RH etc all that stuff, if all those are good then look at EC because 3.0 is not set in stone. how far a long in the grow are you ?
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

529
143
Hey man, just for want to get to the bottom of a question going around in my head. I have two buddies who advise me on what schedule to use and how to grow. I am using HGV salts with Coco, 1700e LEDs, EC 3.0 and PH 5.7. One buddy suggested me to water at 6.2-6.5, the other one says that if I go above 5.8, the salts would cause the roots to burn and it could probably kill my plants over time. Now I don't know which one is true and I couldn't find any answers on the internet. But as I'm finding out, maybe I'm giving too much nutrient for my plants, and that's possibly stunting their growth and browning the large leaves at the top of my plants. Any piece of advice would be appreciated.
Have you seen this https://hydrobuilder.com/media/pdf/instructions/hgv-dosage-and-feed-rates.pdf
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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maybe I'm giving too much nutrient for my plants, and that's possibly stunting their growth and browning the large leaves at the top of my plants
you say large leaves on top, are the leaves on the upper part of the plant any different from the leaves say 6 or 7 nodes down. and do you have purple petioles. To much Ca should give you shorter fatter blades, where K is the opposite.
 
M

markcannabinhumanoid

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Ok there is so many variables that nothing is really absolute, are either one of your buddies running the same light and setup as you ? and are they growing in coco , coco can have it own issues especially if its not buffered correctly but your in flower right ? my question would be are you sure your getting enough runoff to control EC in medium and are you controlling dry backs properly, and have you checked root zone PH. Honestly your nutes could have been locked up or under fed without being there or seeing it its hard to say. are your root healthy, what about the rooms environment? your buddies are telling you 2 different things because there rooms may seem the same but be a lot different, no what I mean. make sure all your basics are covered plenty runoff, EC out PH in and out, make sure environment is as good as its going to be temps, RH etc all that stuff, if all those are good then look at EC because 3.0 is not set in stone. how far a long in the grow are you ?
One is running LEDs, other is on. They both grow in coco and use HGV. I am in in week 5 of flower, I'm using white 5 gallon pots and usually my pots are completely dry next day after watering. I have checked root ph and its around 5.1/5.2, which my buddies says is perfect. Yeah I'm also thinking I might have locked them up, because I could have had excess Phosphorus and Potassium and ended up with all kinds of deficiencies. My buds actually blossomed pretty late, around mid week 3. Since then, half have been growing at a decent pace, the other half are stunted and still look like week 2-3 buds. I have no idea about root health or how to check it. My room environment is 75/76 degrees, Humidity at 53%, Co2 at 1500. Yeah, my buddies are definitely telling me 2 completely different things, and I don't know which is true. One claims I will kill my plants if I go above 5.9 PH and the other suggests my problems are caused by not watering around 6.2-6.5. My runoff seems okay, so yeah, thats leaves the EC, which may be too high.
 
M

markcannabinhumanoid

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you say large leaves on top, are the leaves on the upper part of the plant any different from the leaves say 6 or 7 nodes down. and do you have purple petioles. To much Ca should give you shorter fatter blades, where K is the opposite.
Yeah so the top leaves have yellow/purple and are dying. The bottom leaves don't look as bad, but I'm seeing pointy tips on the newer leaves. And yes, the petioles are also purple on the bad leaves. I think more likely K excess since I have thin blade leaves at the tips.
 
M

markcannabinhumanoid

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To determine how much base and growth formula or base and bloom formula you will need to achieve YOUR target EC level, start with 1 gallon of the irrigated water.
Thats not the issue though. I'm talking about PH used with HGV salts. Not my EC. I can lower my EC.
 
Dr.Green55

Dr.Green55

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I am in in week 5 of flower, I'm using white 5 gallon pots and usually my pots are completely dry next day after watering. I
ok so irrigation frequency is an issue, i'd bet length of irrigation is to , in part thats why you have 5.1 ph in root zone. You can't let your medium go completely dry, cooc should be irrigated multiple time a day, the length of irrigation or runoff flushes your medium, prevents a build up of salts maintains root zone PH and give your plant enough water as well. basically root zone balance, and the 5.1 PH is a result of that, As far as PH you should get that back between 5.5 and 6 if you go over 6 your not going to kill your plants but I think the sweet spot will be in the 5.5 to 6 range
Room temps should come up to 80 anyhow , whats your leaf temps, the guys I know with Athena running 3.5 EC have Humidity coming into flower 67-70 and dropping of to 50-55% the towards then end and it its no good to run 1500 Co2 thats not the weak point, you need to get everything in check first,
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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How i irrigate coco. This is also why i feel if your irrigation frequency is good you really need not run such a high EC because they have everything available at all times. Granted you still would need to account for the nutrient ratios. Personally with a 3 part like say jacks i found 800ppm to be all thats needed with high transpiration rates under LED. If you add more additives then your pom will be higher.

Its sooo common for growers to water less frequently and see issue in early to mid flower because of this. When EC and PH coning out are more than about 10% ish difference of whats going in thats telling of exactly this…

Soil is not the same as coco

 
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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I should add once you have this down you can further manipulate the dry back for drought stress if you are into crop steering as many are these days
 
Aqua Man

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Ill leave this one too for the OP. Understanding the principles at play is important to understand what may be similar or different than another grower so you can soot them and account for it.

 
M

markcannabinhumanoid

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How i irrigate coco. This is also why i feel if your irrigation frequency is good you really need not run such a high EC because they have everything available at all times. Granted you still would need to account for the nutrient ratios. Personally with a 3 part like say jacks i found 800ppm to be all thats needed with high transpiration rates under LED. If you add more additives then your pom will be higher.

Its sooo common for growers to water less frequently and see issue in early to mid flower because of this. When EC and PH coning out are more than about 10% ish difference of whats going in thats telling of exactly this…

Soil is not the same as coco

For irrigation are you suggesting flushing in between feeds? I feed every two days, and yes my pots are very dry the next day. You think that's causing drought stress? Interesting, maybe I'm under-watering, the pots get very slight runoff, even though I water a solid 8 seconds for 5 gallon, and the bottom through the drain holes I can see that most of the sediment is dry.
 
Aqua Man

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For irrigation are you suggesting flushing in between feeds? I feed every two days, and yes my pots are very dry the next day. You think that's causing drought stress? Interesting, maybe I'm under-watering, the pots get very slight runoff, even though I water a solid 8 seconds for 5 gallon, and the bottom through the drain holes I can see that most of the sediment is dry.
Dis you read the article i posted? Im all for helping but i cant help much if you dont read what i write.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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For irrigation are you suggesting flushing in between feeds? I feed every two days, and yes my pots are very dry the next day. You think that's causing drought stress? Interesting, maybe I'm under-watering, the pots get very slight runoff, even though I water a solid 8 seconds for 5 gallon, and the bottom through the drain holes I can see that most of the sediment is dry.
Go back and read them… all the answers are in the coco one. If you have questions after i have no problem trying to answer then for you. But i wrote thise so i dont have to type it all out every time someone has this ussue
 

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