What really burns biscuits, BAD INFO!

  • Thread starter Kalcu
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I see it time and time, then again as always people consider their information valid since it's a 'total opinion'.

I will start with the easiest and most common 'cannabis' error. I used this mistake for a long time myself and it's no big deal. But a phenotype is an environmentally influenced difference. Say with clones grown by separate people but the same exact genetic specimen. These same clones that have not gone through flowering or hermi on someone before passing, while your best bud didn't get that age of clone...or say some buds that purple up next to the cool intake (that one plant that got purple).

A GENOTYPE, is the unique genetic traits among a generation with the same parents. I have made a strong note to myself, to no longer use phenotype to express what are indeed genotypes.

Which brings the second batch of burnt biscuits:mad0233: There are no GENOTYPES that are totally one parent or the other. It's wrong and misleading to say you found the 'favored' parent totally in the next generation. That would be impossible and very difficult within even a back crossing program that went through a thousand plants for ten generations with DNA examinations to confirm the selected parents.

A lot of seed ads use these wrong terms, crosses are like shuffling a deck. You get a totally random new genetic SEQUENCE, it's really simple stuff but it irks me! It's false information and it makes me think that people are afraid to be made fun of so wrong information becomes 'acceptable'.

One a personal note, I get sick of seeing these clone only's. What made these forums so great other than the excellent horticulture info specific for this favored plant....was so much information on so many SEED strains. When it comes to putting down anywhere from 30 to 200 or possible several hundred if an auction, ya wanna know the breeders history, batch information and most of all, peoples RESULTS with genotypes as well as things to worry about (why not to put this plant outside or not a great gal for the hydro!).

:icon_animal26: Not to really 'freak anyone out', but it seems that it is just bad taste to go carrying about this hobby with terms that felt good to learn but BONK!

As well as that F5's or how ever far down are not a problem, unless you didn't notice traits....you were all about that 'pheno' which yes is a wrong term for genotype...that isn't exactly Purple Urkle but shows 'traits' more on that side....it's not trustworthy information to say it is the parent mostly but not exactly what traits. Anyhow a lot of selecting for future generations of 'inbreeding', can really weed out bad genes...things that were not nice to see, if the gene pool is large enough or someone can mark DNA for this plant.

I mostly just feel like chatting and, most of these pages are quite similar so I just look for facts and the mood is usually the same. If it's a grow journal, it's all about the strain (boring anymore for having so many clone only's that don't really change other than phenotypes or some bad batch). As well as nutrients used, ratio's, blah blah blah some new 'fancy' light or equipment.

Fact is this hobby gets old to read SOBER:sign0065:, I do miss seeing more seed grows...and ya they are a pain in that ass. Another thing, is that FEMs are not missing anything in their smoke...they have a slight tendancy to hermi and that depends on how bad they were stressed...it's probably good to condition plants to the chemical or method used to fem...why, because DNA does condition itself, that is why fem seeds RISK making new seeds...there is a bit of information passed along that hermi did occur so that is a risk with future seeds...but plants conditioned, well think of feming a mom then using her clones time and time again and the mom always makes some seeds...I'd bet it wouldn't shock her as much...like not just dousing her with some silver solution, but easing her into it...fact is it is a risk with fem seeds to breed and they might show that hermi trait as people do warn about...but the smoke is not inferior or 'lacking'...you can't sense DNA in the smoke, I don't care how cool or delusional of a pot smoker you are, it's not science.

Anyhow, argue, post information that burns your biscuits or just rant and rave for a fun thread. It's just that some information passes like the golden ticket and it's just not that valid...or to much trouble to say it the way it really is!:winking0067:

So basically there is information post 'mother' birth about her environment that is passed on, this is a 'test' unless it reoccurs every generation...that is what is called a mutation (not really freak plants, as we commonly use the term). A good understanding of what the term phenotype really means, is a clone outdoors verses indoors...vast differences. It's just good to use the valid terms, since phenotype refers to what you do with the genetics verses what the genetics are! Which is why I feel it's so important for people to really watch out for saying look I find the full blueberry genotype that was crossed with three different plants....it's not going to happen unless it's an F10 and probably not going to happen with peoples expectations yielding more results than what are actually present.

With inbreeding, a loss of 'hybrid vigor' can occur, but the truth is with a inbreeding program....start with larger numbers and remember that ever generation you grow from those seeds....need to be marked and recorded, and don't settle for that plant that was not showing more progress than decline because you put so much energy into it. It's really great that with so many people tinkering around, that seeds still have a place. With so many people growing beans, it's a good time to bring up another misleading fact if not used correctly. That would be that seeds make your plant less potent, this is true but not if it's a bottom bud with a tiny paint brush for say 10 or 20 maybe even 30 seeds in a plant that isn't only having 10 or 20 bud sites (which does have a lot more calyxes). But with people not misleading about their genotypes used and grown out to see just what traits their parents were hiding or exactly how strong the genetic sequence for traits were.

It seems that purple genes are mostly a sequence, that is why some plants show a little purple, then other plants can show a lot of purple as well as if it's the leaf or the calyxes that change color..as well as how deep of a purple, as pink and blue are not far away on respectfully.

I think that is about it, people to complain about a seed pack but it's hard to ignore a real keeper plant...that is a good one to find some pollen from a well grown out source...the truth is with an F1, that F2 or any hybrid of second generation...is going to show those traits that you didn't want to see or an 'equal chance' the traits that you were surprised and prefer seeing.

With the fems passing on information to some genotypes that a hermi was developed as that was how they were born....it brings up a good fact that isn't often equally translated to similar situations....that would be, breeding outdoors will pass on information about your environmental....so making crosses outdoors or indoors over many generations becomes transparent. It seems it doesn't usually make sense to new growers, why there are 'indoor' or 'outdoor' plants...they do accustom and they do so quickly...these plants especially with indoors, have life cycles of two months if a SOG and the usual one year if outdoors.

I know that these forums usually have a feeling of 'being within the 'dark society''. But fact is it's good to use valid information, it seems that there are back slides in progress due to people not knowing simple biology. It's not a sure shot that the sexy mother clone is going to have great children....I went through a pack of OG Kush S1 and found all sorts of traits that were hiding. Good god, the plants with INdica leafs formed the most SAtiva buds...then the plant with the most sativa leafs, had some dense crystal madness!

It would be nice but I am not volunteering, to release a blueberry IBL (someone other than DJ or friend who charges more than 30 bucks)...I think Cannacopia shows what a good F1 can do for 30 bucks....The only reason DP has problems is that they don't record their breeding...it seems they don't keep track of generations...you can still increase 'hybrid vigor' with inbreeding....what do you think ganja did in a valley that didn't see any other influences...other than inbreeding?

I have some beans and going to do outdoor, as I just play around way to much with them indoors. Some good INdica plants, but mostly fem as it's a long process of way to many numbers and that obsession, total freaking obsession with finding that genotype. there are two different forms of hermaphrodites, the banana which isn't a big deal and then the freaking bud sites of total male and total female sex traits...that is a 'real hermi'....little banana's don't do much but they do cause alarm and even the best genetics at the end show a banana or two...not huge clumps of balls.

It's just winter and I haven't started the outdoor plants vegging yet. I had some nice beans and freaked out about bad soil, I didn't get my mixture made...was dealing with some other issues of the utmost priority. Lost some nice freaking genetics so I figured that some fems take the number hunt down to one of each strain (seven going out)...the holes are not filled in, I didn't want to do that in the fall with good soil that will just leach out all of those nutrients...they will be about 3 months old going out and with these cool CFL 125 watters they don't stretch with a close light.

Also thinking about spending 100 bucks on a very cool LED 13 watt, for a night light that is more pleasant in a room. I don't have many standard seeds, which feels like something is lacking...fact is I gotta watch out for any crosses and yep buying fems still makes me want to preserve traits from those to do projects..that will surely IBL traits somewhere around the line...I know an IBL says more than it has to be, it just means more than one generation inbreed with any ancestor...not exactly perfectly uniform genotypes.

It's just such a huge deal to go through a ten pack and with land race fems you know there are no hidden surprises...with these freaking F1 fems it's a problem, you are going to find traits that are absurd if it was an Indica sativa F1...but a lot of strains that are hybrids are not F1's.

I've spent more money on genetics in the past than bud recovered, these forums overload with information and the air that it is a privilege. I feel better about outdoors, not trying to go for a pound a plant...honestly a QP is more of a guerrilla yield but yes a pound isn't that bad but damn, that looks like a tree not a camo plant.

I have to go a ways on 'foot' for these too, at least a mile it's probably more like three just to get there...it's hidden pretty well but man when it comes to eyes in the sky that is the 'fear'. Anyhow they are mostly land race fems, Pakistan Vally (which I only read one positive grow report and some bad talkers with nothing more than a negative response)....X-18 Fem, ya I know should of picked up the standard but not searching before even finding a hope of putting on outside....Matanuska Tundra which has Kazakhstan and would be great to put some DC, Hindu Kush, DC x Nepal, Afghani or Shiva Shanti pollen onto...as those are the only seeds I have left that could be males but not working those or even a few of the standard beans until next winter....after seeing what the clones of the fems do outdoors.

Also a fem of Mazar Kush, Purple Wreck which I am curious exactly how that deck of genotypes was shuffled.....I've seen more train wreck shaped plants and more Purple Urkle traits but fact is it could be anywhere in between...I rarely hear about genetic sequences that pass in bunches...such as red hair genes with humans passes with a low IQ, it doesn't work that way!

A homegrown Fantaseed Afghani fem, have a few Sensi Afghani #1 but that is mostly to see how the females compare as well as hopefully a male...I do hope for a keeper male with standard beans...but not as much as I also know that it's not a do or die situation with F1 genetics...they lurk if you are willing to search in any number required to find that sequence that doesn't have negative recessive traits...well negative for our interest.

Oh a fem of Greenhouse seeds Bubba kush which has to be more stable than the OG Kush selfed...I heard bad things about Greenhouse seeds and especially their Bubba, which honestly I never saw any grow pics..ever, it seems it has to be a shuffle somewhere and not as many vastly different genotypes than the OG...the OG was a kush probably Hindu with a Lemon Thai which are very different parents....with the bubba it's bubble gum and Hindu Kush which are very stable and quite similar..so probably not as chaotic of a shuffling. This one is the real risk for mold outside, never saw any form of bubba ever survive...probably rather it this with some HK pollen somewhere down the line...see what develops.

Got a bunch of freebie fems, can't wait to try some of these out. Blue Hash being one, might even buy a pack of these some day....never really liked how blueberry is so Sativa and yet people try and say that it's mostly indica and that is just untrue...the Indica buds are a rare genotype, most are very sativa. I'd say it's at least 80 Sativa as far as genotype statistics but even the sativa buds show some mystery indica features that are not that noticeable for being indica traits...just shorter flowering time and not as stretchy.

Ya it's a long post, it seems if it's not pictures it's not to interesting.:no Just so bored, would be harvesting if I didn't whack the plants but man a frustrating issue makes throwing them out feel good for awhile to get a clean start on something that actually yields...I only have 500 watts of CFL's...five 125 watters...both cool and warm bulbs. With these lights, you odn't want so much as one mistake or it's a huge difference.

I lost a lot of good genetics and mostly felt bad about losing the original blueberry which I had 4 left after some disaster...figured if it's the pheno hunt might as well just buy another pack...felt bad about the Bubba Kush x DC too....but the Govt Mule smelled the most wonderful and over powered ever plant in veg..it was a strong fruity bubble gum...as I hear that Pacific G13 is basically a bubble gum cross...might even be with the real G13 clone which was just an indica with a strong taste but not the most rank smell in the bags I got..just a good bud and not totally different...and ya it was a good nug, it was a college that had a lot of 'real deals'. Lost the Agent Orange too which had a great germination ratio, had horrible with the bubba x DC and blueberry...a problem with mold due to grower error, added something that was not a good idea that early...a real lose of cash, not a proud moment! Just glad that DJ isn't out of blueberry, just the 'sativa' male..which isn't a big deal for an indica lover, a Sativa just will not survive out here...it's not a ripe plant if it does. I like my sativa's but anything that isn't done and well done by the end of October is seriously a risk! I mean that with a sativa it's going to be a huge yield and I'm not able to take all of a large grow back in a weather crisis.

Basically I am bored and getting over a lot of the 'kid shit' for growing weed..that doesn't help the actual process....a lot of facts have been observed by me over the years, since 2001 and I haven't grown anything to have a stash..ran into genotypes and didn't go for that yield as I never did find that hydro clone....it's a long process to find that keeper as well as even more to stabilize a strain just for your hydro needs.

You never want to ad molasses early around germination, I had some polymer plugs in the soil with seeds...grew mold badly! Lost a lot of money in that but lessons learned are worth that all mighty dollar. I wouldn't even add catalyst early, I have learned that it's better to mix a good soil than want to stock up when the plant starts germinating..or hopes to!

Losing Agent Orange was a real bitch, there were differences in fragrance early on in veg with a rub...definitely one that was a rank stank orange...probably buy this one back...I honestly want to have Mountain strains from India stabilize good outdoor traits with resin plants....Agent Orange has sativa features but there is a more rare block head dominate genotype...it seems that when SAtiva traits come they usually do a lot!

I just don't have the time for Sativa plants, I'm all for sativa potency with Indica growth diameters and timing. I am a bit worried about the DC and DC x Nepal beans I got from THC bay, they are premature to say the least..just not green and white, a little bit and I mean just a tad of marble showing...these were early picked beans and need protected or grown out soon...I just don't. have the time yet. Guess I could start these but I'm not going to the hardware store for some Uncle Malcom's just yet...not this many bags, and not this time of year...I know that has to look really really bad, not something I need anyone to know about.:character0095:

Rolln J

good rant - one question though - why the hell are you reading the forums sober?


good rant - one question though - why the hell are you reading the forums sober?

no weed, it's a bitch but honestly it's helped clear house. I went through some hard times and it seems 'friends' ran like the plague was coming.

Basically they were not friends, they were people that used me for the ONLY DUDE with an apartment...it seems these didn't move out until their mid twenties...then turned to total dips, NARCS....and the ones that didn't narc, chose ground....not my side, in fact one tried to play that game, but he didn't even give me a nug...and I gave this dude shelter and a lot of weed...not a little bit and I didn't give problems about hash on a pipe...this dude was a bitch and still didn't put much on...I always thought with company why not more!

I was a lovely friend but these are bitches, the one last mentioned smuggles glass around...but won't grow weed 'because it's illegal'...ya right, like waiting until it's legal is a good idea..dumbie!

I've been researching this subject for years, so I have only smoked ONCE in the past year and it was a 10 bag of schwagg for 20 bucks and not even good schwagg...from an 18 year old kid that thought it was good pot, man even for a 13 year old it wasn't....and when I was 18 I was getting college nugs from a State University.

Ya, the so called friend wasn't to nice about one of our old buds...getting me in trouble over a girl and man you don't turn in someone for growing weed...over a damn girl...it's not good, the charge drops but the inspiration on my side just isn't!

Well, he kicked me a hit of paper and well I know a bit taboo for some grow forums...but he is the kind that carries it all the time to play with it and show 'that I possess' which is really dumb...it's a good way to stir up problems with the politics of that industry gone poo poo..Pickard isn't out of prison and not looking like some Delta force is breaking him out!

Well he plays with it and doesn't keep it in the freezer, so it wasn't that potent and lame! I just realized how much these people sucked, they needed to hit the curb a decade ago.

I just gotta fill holes this spring and start some veg plants soon. So being sober helps that as well as the budget to get projects much delayed into progress.. Just a bitch about the beans I lost, don't have the time for a while....but it's a problem when they are in limited supply.

Genetics I'd like to see:

Blueberry with any plant from the mountains of Asia (no Chinese, but Pakistani, Hindu Kush with almost DC leafs or DC, Uzbekistan or Kyrgyzstan area including that area that that Tundra plant has origins from (brrr freezing area's).

I am not really into the tropical sativa's, I don't live in a warm climate. You can't be sure when the frost comes around here, it's been a good year this past one but I don't have the measures to risk a sativa.

I'd like to see blueberry in that but with strong indica shape...as well as agent orange stick around...some of those DC crosses like Govt mule hang around and drop price....or whatever, probably do a blue satellite on my mind for a sativa, it seems some have grown that outside, I know blueberry lives but....kinda iffy on some genotypes and the search is a bitch!

It's like you have the space and with this, well it's best to have clones...but man the TEMPTATION, they really need addiction programs for seed hunters...these are not for yielding crops, they do get something but as far as finding that genotype it's search...then you wonder about well if I flower with the cool bulb I get more females..but I want a male and I don't want to flower with the warm bulbs (for sex determination the stretch) and risk all or mostly males...probably makes sense to have one light be a freaking warm bulb for the plants...but then that gets me obsessed about risk as risk does that, about what if these plants selected for that bulb were mostly genetically female.

Because they do know that sex is very much inspired by environment for these plants, nutrient and light composition can encourage more females or more males...which makes me wonder about just how to control everything...it's not something were people well, want to lose anything based on a choice...it's a real problem, it's illegal and we don't live long enough to really search out every possible sequence of cannabis.

There are many variations, so that is why I stick to Indica...not much time for sativa searches to find that group that does well outdoors or even one.

Ya, this interest brings out my personal foibles. It does to many people from what I have read, well it's all about timing and budget....kinda wanna get some other projects going...but the thing is I still want some more plants for good males and can't turn down a hot milf plant..or milf, but anyway wouldn't mind getting back into the hydro....for some clones....a nice 600 or 1000 watter, in a good tent...well that gets pricey with all that is required...a PPM TDS constant monitor not just a pen, an RO system, a bubbler and several stones...it's a must for me, as well as fan and a scrubber (can make that one cheap).

Just glad I am not to old and honestly, getting caught doesn't bother me, I can do the time but it's a pain in that ass to buy things back...it's no good...it wouldn't be bad if I still had income doing time and didn't lose my property that they claim is illegal..like it's immoral or something?

It's not hard to spend five grand on stuff for 'immoral' hobbies...that honestly man, don't come quickly.


Premium Member
Nice read bro>>>Keep it flowing




Just burned dude, winter cabin fever kicking in...really could of used that harvest and subsequent beans, but got some nice fems or maybe we find out they are not so nice...but anyways, being really stoned with winter burn out doesn't help that long work to get holes filled and mixed.

Then again toking with the laziest of stoners, who well I am sure you all get sick of this...but people giving facts on growing cannabis that never tried to or read through the MASS information that exists.....because they know they are not even able to visualize themselves doing the work..a lot of bad info exists on the streets and 'creeps' in on these forums.

We live a lot by those that proved their talk, with pictures and that says everything. People confuse trusting their word with being 'cool' or 'in' and things are never that simple. I know enough to know that I am prone to error from time to time, but weed is a plant and best to keep it simple...it's realistic there!

I have visualized every step for out door and had a lot of fragile experiences...indoors the visualizing gets well anxious if it's built up over time gathering supplies...getting used to phobia's about risk and then some really bad influence from spending a lot on genetics and fertilizer..which is not cheap.

Used to be that I couldn't wait for a harvest and it's just not going to flower indoors well starving the plant with sour emotions...rather have outdoor plants that well I get out and feel good getting out to check up on...then having head stash to grow indoors, they grow MUCH BETTER with a head stash...I don't buy that bull that sober grower has 'better vibes' to grow better weed.

Fact is cannabis helps the pineal glands 'siezure' activity, which makes trembling hands that don't care for fragile plants well...and I have 'micro' equipment at the moment...but a full spare bedroom....there are no high limits, well not much of a limit and it's mostly just the CFL's and not cheap ones...with lower lumens and more lights I cover more area for more numbers...just one gallon pots...probably six for breeding projects next winter.

With that money could of been a 1000 watter, but then add the darn exhaust and of course that 1000 watter looks better with a hydro unit and I hate hearing about 'dro' it doesn't mean any better of a bud.

The problem with society about illegal interests, is that any information is 'legal' among people inspired.

Smoking a blunt of schwagg doesn't make you a stoner, it makes you a shame!:winking0067:

For me good weed is a bare essential, but the laws won't have it that way...not in these parts. They are very much against anything in nature that serves a purpose. Mostly since they don't know these area's of thought, cannabis is very strong in the mega-cognition realm (knowing about knowing and people generally lack in that department).

People carry on like as long as the group has the same delirium and defends their BS that it doesn't matter what is known about their knowing...Governments live off of it these attitudes.

Cannabis also is important with personal decelerations that exclude short term memory (where fear exists the most as well as other apprehensions in the fantasy mind and by no means is fantasy less real, it must attach to existence and usually does).....so that is why people don't like pot, people realize things due to the long term memory forming decelerations (self honesty). It's seen as a social problem, it's all about herd instincts and that is real trouble to me if they point the finger and stone me!


Some more thoughts, it seems an F3 is where a breeding project is really showing the parental heritage....at F1 errors are obvious and probably few at this point unless a major fault occurred or just unseen hidden genetics. An F1 shows your range of genotypes and possible phenotypes if some cuts were tested out in different conditions before seeding or after to reassure that there were no faults for the breeding project. At an F2 you get to see what has hidden and narrow your traits down even more and it's always about selection and F2 requires high numbers to see the vast differences...I know, there is hardly any middle ground but those are usually the keeper and become clone only's all to often for my personal realm of taste. At the F2 the differences are more mild, unless the F1's were chosen for their expressed traits and still had very different package unfolding in the subsequent F2's. So F3's really show the make or break, that is where some parents don't make it...where if factoring was used to cross parents and keep every parent separated and every generation after separated. So as not to use more than one dad for a mom and really mess up just what that dad had that wasn't good...from a dad that did. It's the thing about 'litter's, never heard cannabis that but there is probably a biology term for plants having more than one seed. When breeding animals, you don't want to confuse heritage or breed just hoping that the runt has some sort of trait worth passing on...and if you do, keep that birth marked so as to remember it's past heritage and that those genes lurk. It seems that growers like RM have a lot of genotypes to go through, then with a home breeder you have more generations to work through..given you searched out enough in the early generations to see where a line shows weakness...if it comes in the later generations, it came from somewhere.

I have 30 one gallon pots, for 5 CFL's and of course a veg space for mums and clones. That is not a lot to go through as far as revealing seed stock, but it's not bad for a home grower. I was using smaller pots with the earlier seed selection, I had 56, these were smaller than one gallon and could of got an ounce under a nice light if they were all female or at least a quarter (more realistic and yes the variation make it way to much of a problem, with bigger plants, not such a problem as far as nutrient differences and other things that don't create uniformity). Got to caught up in the seed hunt, it's EASY reading these forums you bastards (joking and all respect intended). It's a bad idea in my book to breed with young plants flowered early, they pass on such information and probably why 'hybrid vigor' is lost or other adaptations. Plants adjust to their environment and pass on this information a lot with a lot more power than people realize and quickly for biological time but not stoner time.

It's that coin toss between growing for production of bud and for seed, it seems the seed thing seemed like a good way to save money and produce things....I would rather risk a bad IBL, than losing a strain...but that isn't such a good idea anymore to get well over my head and lose the strain and the intended products.

It seems anyway that an IBL can still be saved, as long as the traits desired were just arraigned badly and not lost....cause if it's just how the genetics are sequenced, they can be re-sequenced if they are around in your selection. Say you have ten plants, and they all have one feature you want and then five or ten you don't...it's not long until you start seeing hope in a future generations of darn close to just what you wanted...then finally finding that.

I see things like rare genotypes and man that does sell packages of beans, but there is a lot of force for people to push beans out on a keeper plant they found...variation gets to be a problem...it's like almost every pack has a vision of how it can be worked and not what it is sold as, but kinda close there it had something desirable in the sale but not exactly 'mine'.

There isn't much point in buying white widow to rework, it seems it's done! I have never seen such consistent plants as white widow and it was good but I messed it up! The one thing about land race is it is consistent, stabilized, with hybrids, man, traits start to pop up and it's a logistical mess...really makes space not for making bud but for that 'someday' kind of thing...and rather just work back on the bud making, I was doing that but then reading about doing that got all into the seeds...oh lord the strains and their admiration!

I grew out so many beans, it got easy to throw these last ones away..really wish I didn't but they all looked so good and I am telling myself not buying anymore until these get worked...then I can ease in a pack or two...it turns into a fetish! Then a security nightmare to not be able to see myself making some further generations to preserve the line...I worry about these not being sold anymore or a satisfying replacement..nothing worse than settling for an axillary option...that isn't that same exact strain, or even better.

Looking back some strains are lost, probably around but new things have an image (mystery). Some strains back from the OG days, when I was just starting to cruise around and read about these things. I couldn't see myself back then growing some nice plants outdoors, but today it's so much easier to visualize.

I can think of many breeding projects worth while, that I rarely see anyone show and it's rare...I saw a blueberry x DC and a blueberry x hindu kush....the blueberry x DC looked great, the blueberry x Hindu Kush well might not have been the best selection of Hindu Kush....there were some pictures floating around of someones freebie Hindu Kush grow that was EXCELLENT, I mean nice sharp leafs, not to many but it had that original kush appeal...not huge calyxes as that is what cali kush plants show off except for the Pure Kush, those have some leaf appeal (a sure sign for an outdoor grower that they won't freeze, but yes mold is a concern). It's obvious with cold hardy plants how they stay compact and use their leaf to protect the plant, so believe it or not plant shape has a lot to do with my selections regarding hybrids.

The most vigorous plant I grew, was the Afghani #1, not the most potent but man I can smoke that stuff and never get bored or anxious. It's great stuff, just decided to throw it all out...I get paranoid when frustrated, it seems it's not good to be upset about something that you can't talk about!

I was to embarrassed to go on here and talk about it and nobody was going to help my problems, not without a camera...It started with a DUMB experiment as experiments are always stupid with an entire crop of that much money in beans. Guess what it was, not going to figure it but yes, a beer nuked in the microwave to add some kind of fermentation...well it caused some fungus on beans germinating....ya, it was just something to see if it helped a home made tea and it didn't work...as well as lime to cut PH up, well it took way to much, which wasn't the problem...it was the micro herd, these are not always good and it turned the soil sour...flushed it and man it turned into a problem....added hydrogen peroxide to 'clean' the soil and not a good idea with organics....caused serious PH burns, not a great start and just said goodbye to the plants...sat around thinking about not trying anymore, not my style so ordered new beans with outdoors in mind...hardly need anything outdoors, just a good mix, some top dressing when it's a heavy rain spell and some liquid ferts when it's not such a heavy rain or non at all....really good spots too, tunneled back into shrubs that grow a variety of heights...mostly pretty tall but they are thin at 15, mostly good cover for a good 5, 6 10 feet...they are round so some area's are lower and thinner, but one spot isn't so good...if anyone goes back which it grows thick in the summer, but it's a meadow about 20 feet by 20 feet, more oval so maybe 20 by 20...and five holes and there are two shrubs in the meadow and tall grass, with tall trees and a lot of shrubs hiding it, but mostly about fly over or some freaky rare chance someone goes back into that...which would be rare but if they did, kinda thinking about taking clones off of these shrubs to CLOSE in that area, so you have to hunch over or hands and knees like the other spots to get to the hole...and they open up real nice back in that, enough room to get around the plant or at least feed and water, or other maintenance like harvest. In plots like these, with the shrubs and having to crawl to get back to even see where the light hits the ground, you can do these in parks as long as the smell isn't hitting a trail and good luck for that poison ivy freak looking.

I just get really anxious about future seed stock, some stuff is not always in and things aren't always around. A lot of Blueberry hybrids but not exactly what I am looking for or even for breeding to get what I want out of them..which sucks.

I don't want to like a breeders strain, anymore than for good parentage...I mean what is great bud isn't necessarily great breeding material, it's about exotics and crosses just not for sale! It looks really bad offering a cross for sale, even if better you have to prove that! 90% of the sale is the cross offered, then the person that breed those, and then grower reports...but mostly the parents names...not even necessarily the selection of those parents.

A lot of good genes already, but there are a lot of fruit strains that are very sativa...blueberry, grapefruit, agent orange (most genotypes are sativa, not very certain the more indica block head is found in every pack and that is hard to promise as genotypes very as they desire to).....I think Sativa traits are dominate, it appears it's the natural inclination of the plant to grow like that....except for plants accustomed to cold places...I bet even these indica's would stretch out if inbreed in a tropical place...given time.

I am wearing myself out, talk can only get ride of so much steam. Just can't wait to see the plants outdoors, got a great camping spot....clear across the valley, in the fall I can see if someone is back there with a light. People could drive a 4 wheeler all around these plots all day and all night and not find them, unless they drove through these shrubs and that wouldn't feel good or make progress.

Not a lot of choices around here to grow, I'm not growing in corn because I can't work that soil...they move it around and I put work into a spot, I am going to condition that every year not haul all new soil and dig all new holes.....these took time to dig, heavy clay down 6 inches..or less in areas...there is a lot of K present and from what I saw with test plants, before hole digging and doing the smart thing....it really pushed the resin out, plus being outdoors...but it was a widow plant and all the trichromes got capitate, which widow doesn't do very well or easily indoors.

Not sure how Homegrown fantaseed Afghan works out, but with Afghani how could a breeder screw that up? Well around these parts with this industry, with stoners not always realizing that fantasy doesn't change real actions....who knows?

It would be nice if Sensi made some other strains in fem, it makes things simpler or a disaster....no light leaks out here but I worry anymore about City light, even that orange in the sky at a distance...it is growing anymore, Cities are not using less light pollution...but I see good stars out at the plots.

Only doing 7 holes out of the 12, going to keep the other five for another year. Never did a nice haul, I never got more than a few ounces....which kept me smoking and some fool saying it was the best weed he ever smoked, but it was yellow in a lot of places from a PH disaster (the pen broke, not easy to eye ball the do it yourself liquid test kits, that sucked).

Not one perfect grow yet, that is demeaning or shows a lot of motivation. People around here don't know good weed, the best stuff usually has ever name in it like some Northernlights widow blueberry...and it's picked on time if you like a short lived up high, CBD slows down the metabolism of THC....I like some ambers, usually looks like golden trichromes if it's right. That brings up another thing that concerns me about some breeds, their trichromes don't always ripen quite evenly...seems more common with some Sativa traits.....or a plant that grows and flowers like an Indica but ripens like a sativa...seems like a waste of good genetics, not everyone has 90 or 120 days for a ripen phase. Better be sitting on a huge stash to know your getting into that.


Premium Member
Wow man really>>Nice.
Glad the burning helped.. Its helped me:giggle

Here is some stuff to add to your book:)
I have some Qs about pheno marijuana.

Q:1) what does it meen?

Q:2) can any marijuana be pheno?

Q:3) can I grow bagseed into a pheno?

Pheno isn't a type of MJ but rather is short for phenotype, a term used primarily in the field of genetics and is often tossed around when talking about plants.

Phenotype refers to the physical characteristics expressed by the plant. The term is used in contrast to genotype, which refers to the specific genes passed on from the parent plants.

Because of random recombination that can take place in sexual reproduction, plants sharing similar genotypes (being from the same parents) can express different phenotypes. This is why some gardeners talk about finding that one certain pheno in their grows; they're looking for a plant that expresses a certain set of physical characteristics, whether they be smell, height, taste, potency, growth pattern, or other trait. When you hear growers talking about the AK47 Cherry Pheno or the Apollo 11 Genius pheno, that's to what they are referring.

In short, a pheno isn't a type of weed, rather it's varying types of weed from the same parents.

I hope this explaination helped and didn't confuse you any further.

Here is another example:giggle
incross, backcross?

ChemdogD I crossed with ChemdogD I (a male and a female)
gives the f1
two f1s crossed gives f2?
this is what I have with ChemdogD I x 1 f2
if I took the f1 and crossed it with one of the original parents I would have a backcross?
Thanks I am not slow I just smoke crack.

Yes a F1 x F1 from the same strain gives what we call a F2.

When you cross it back at one of the original parents it will be a BX1


Calyx… The whorl of sepals of a flower collectively forms the outer floral envelope or layer of the perianth enclosing and supporting the developing bud; usually green.
Clone… An organism descended asexually from a single ancestor, such as a plant produced by layering or a polyp produced by budding.
Dominant… Of, relating to, or being an allele that produces the same phenotypic effect whether inherited with a homozygous or heterozygous allele.

F1… When you cross two different IBL strains for the FIRST time, it is called the F1 generation.

F2… When you cross two of the same F1 hybrid (inbreed), it is called the F2 generation.
Hemp… A coarse bushy annual with palmate leaves and clusters of small green flowers; yields tough fibers.
Hybrid… A strain made up of two genetically unlike parents, IBL or hybrid.

IBL… (Inbred line) is a genetically homogeneous strain that grows uniformly from seed. An IBL is homozygous, or true breeding for particular traits.

Off-spring… The progeny or descendants of a plant considered as a group.

Out-cross… A female crossed with a male with the soul intention of inbreeding the sibling line to the mother plant.

P1… original parental generation used to develop F1 hybrids or stabilized, true breeding strains.

Phenotype… The observable, qualifiable and quantifiable representation of a trait.

Pistil… The female, ovule-bearing organ of a flower, including the stigma, style, and ovary.

Pollen… The fine powder like material consisting of pollen grains that is produced by the anthers of seed plants.

Potency… The quality or state of being potent. strength/efficacy/effectiveness
Recessive… Tending to go backward or recede. Of or relating to a trait that is expressed only when the determining allele is present in the homozygous condition.
Resin… Trichomes come in three different types, Bulbous, Capitate-Sessile and Capitate-Stalked.

Stamens… The pollen-producing reproductive organ of a flower, usually consisting of a filament and an anther.

THC… Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol & delta-8-tetrahydrocannabinol - THC mimics the action of anandamide, a neurotransmitter produced naturally in the body, which binds with the cannabinoid receptors in the brain to produce the ‘high’ associated with marijuana. THC possesses high UV-B (280-315 nm) absorption properties.

Trait… A genetically determined characteristic or condition: a recessive trait.

Trichomes… Cannabis resin glands.

Vegetation… The process of growth in plants, prior to producing flowers/blooms/fruits

S1 = selfed

Rolln J

ok wow - i just asked why would you read pot forums sober - no need for a manifesto...


Premium Member
Its like a rough draft of a thesis paper written by a cross between cheech marin and the unabomber:giggle:giggle
LMAO till the cows come home..

I feel ya on the guy bamboozling you about a girl>>>Total horseshit.
Keep it green and hope 2010 brings you the best




I was reading your writing UV-B and it made me remember something I read about THCV. THCV is actually not more potent, it's an antagonist which is why it 'softens' the high. Which is odd, people say it makes it more psychedelic but it might actually be very selective about what actions it agtagonises. Antagonist block some features of a drug that is an agonist. It seems that according to the definition of antagonist it's counter productive but it appears to add to the lucidity, antagonist have to be in very high doses to 'block' effects when they really just alter agonist more than block them.

Yes, your example there would be a back cross. But regarding the topic above that, I thought that phenotype and pretty sure about this, is purely environmental effects regarding which exact traits are expressed. That the genotype predetermines what it's options are, that the parents pass on a huge variety of 'choices'...as well as recessive traits to carry.

With some traits, it's there isn't always a 'trigger' that expresses the gene or genetic sequence but a lot of times it's just that it's the card that was drawn. Breeding just if managed well increases the ratio of desired 'cards' being drawn and in such an order that the life cycle is just what you wanted.

With purple plants or just purple buds, it seems odd that some plants are usually green and some are usually that trait purple...as anyone that reads these forums from head to toe, knows that some plants get a tinge of purple on in some calyxes, some get a get deep purple buds all over through and through, maybe pink or different shades ....yet then it's a completely different gene to have purple leaf and purple buds...a more rare trait..which seems to be several.

I wish someone would map the cannabis genome, that would be some real breeding. I have never seen anyone take some THCV Sativa and brought that THCV gene down into a good indica...there are durban poison skunk plants but very sativa or just enough indica from the skunk in some genotypes.

I think it's easy to confuse genotype with phenotype, giving phenotype more credit than it deserves....the genotype is certain, more like concrete but then again some genotype expressions must exist knowing that it depends on the environment for which way it goes...but I am sure that there are traits that cannot be changed from environment anymore than their genes......it's a vague area, a middle ground I should say...due to expression and not knowing the DNA before expression with these experiments.

What I am saying is that most differences in fact all of them in the same grow room, apart from a cold intake or light differences are genotype traits...then with a phenotype it's more about that clone in a completely different environment just showing how the genotype reacts differently.

Probably why testing out genotypes isn't good in different environments, never going to be able to tell what plants got better conditions than others (well some is differences in conditions is obvious). That plant that got a 13 watt CFL over the plant that got a nice 100 watter or outdoor 8 hour full sun and a good other 6 being blue sky.

Basically what is in the seed is genotype, but what the plant goes through shows phenotype reactions....phenotype being reactions and genotype being protein formations.

Like if I worked out a lot, which I don't especially this time of year....it would be a phenotype reaction compared to say a twin not working out or those differences with environment but the same exact DNA/genotype......then ya with twins or siblings those are genotypes, but they go through different things and with identical's which is the only way to show how environment really effects phenotypes (just how the genotype develops).

It's amazing how different clones can get do to their phenotype responses, I think that is why people love posting clone only's...because everyone that can buy that clone, wants theirs to look exactly like that and well, it's hard to do...it takes the exact same grow conditions.

Phenotype effects genotype over generations, these are quick plants to adapt. They pass on everything they lived through to their next generation, it slowly gatherings as important or not important. Sometimes I wonder about this power we have living in today's age, not that growing oranges in my part of the country...causes adaptation, but I bet with some help over many many years, they would...or gene splicing but fact is genes do more than we label them as...they have unknown effects we don't always notice.

But then again, plants are very simple, human DNA is not so simple. Like with hermi's, sometimes it might be phenotype and not the genotype, genotype means that it's more prone to hermi or going to be for sure no matter what...a phenotype herm just means that well someone did something to it to make it herm or make it more likely.

I still read phenotype with how you worded it as a trait born in the seed, as people want to know how many phenotypes and what to expect in a pack when they mean genotypes...for all purposes, in a grow that is uniform in light, soil, water and food, shouldn't have phenotypes...

Oh and hope I am not a burden, as someone is amused by my thinking not being able to sleep. An F1 doesn't have to come from IBL parents, it seems there are more and more F1's from F1's which do lead to some mystery plants....nobody explored what the parents F2's could do or even all the F1's to even know just what all lurks in their F1's that came from them....it's the problem with being excited to have a cross and not really going through all the options, it takes some work to be consistent and find that really special plant that doesn't have secrets in it's genetics...which more often can be a problem....especially with plants from a history of F1 parents, it goes way back to finding that recessive gene that showed up and wowed or caused a bit of an alarm....if a breeder sees things that he didn't at all see coming in an F2 that means that there was a problem going back...at an F2 I'd look out for some 'risky traits' but not be shocked to find them and at an F3 it better be a much smaller % of imperfection...so on and so forth...

Do you know how many generations a trait can be recessive? I am curious, it's like red hair or blonde hair, that stuff can hide for many generations through many children..well, not to many but it seems odd not showing up much and popping up later on...I guess it's usually with Grandkids, an every other generation thing.

Makes me think an F4 would be good, I saw a great blueberry F5 picture, they really got it to show some style...some blueberry looks vigorous and sometimes people don't show their light specs or nutrient format or pot size, even if it was soil or hydro...so hard to tell how things lose vigor, but I bet that F5 was stable with no mutants...it seems somebody needs to breed those out!

I don't see how hard it wuold be, I mean obvious not including the size of teh search or the maintaince but the biolgoy of it.....making as many recorded parenting as possible marking which parent each came from in every combination....but not breeding with the mutants...then seeing which combination's show any mutation and breeding those out and this one is important where most people would neglect:

That being to take a note, just a small but very important not...marking on the well it would be an F2 at this point but marking which sibling that isn't a mutant but shared a parent from the mutant and finding out which parent had the lurking mutant sequence...it's probably something missing in the sequence, like the human down syndrome....missing DNA....well anyhow so at F3 generation you know what could show up from the F2 sibling that didn't show mutation but that isn't enough to throw it out, might be a keeper if all if it's future family tree doesn't show any mutations.

Some may say that blueberry is perfect, but there are good reasons why she is not trustworthy or he for breeding...to many surprises that create a lot % of misery plants. I bet afghani is a good blueberry back crossing specimen to work out mutants and work in vigor, she has it but not as much with true blueberry as original...had both and lost both, horrible gem rates...just to damn excited with a pack of those.

Like we read about DJ shorts family tree, but not much about it with regard to every parent and how siblings after those showed what traits...it seems that these are not F1's, like people assume...DJ never said how he worked in that line, industry secrets...with mutations and that strong blueberry well pretty mild but not with true blueberry...which is surely a directed IBL but not totally consistent yet very much more so. A lot less mutants with true blueberry, but I like the more indica plants...just not their resin, that is why people like the OG kush and things like that....sativa resin and potency but Indica growth patterns. That is the ideal, Indica plant with sativa power!

Which is why I hope these DC x Nepal beans last in the fridge until next winter and germinate fine...it's their delicate age and I get way to excited. Nepal is a nice sativa and DC we all know for being a chunky girl. Just I do know that some of these chunk projects don't get the resin that others do, not always capitate...if it's not capitate it's not going to make me happy. Something about indoors, to much heat from the light and the resin doesn't expand into bulbs....outdoors it's no problem unless rain really pounds them in flowering...we don't get much heavy rain in the fall, not like summer storms but it can rain...not always a downpour.

Some get great resin under an HPS, it seems LED's and CFL's don't get those stalks without bulbs or small bulbs...I like a good bud that shows up in a macro as consistent, even, productive glands. Might try a back cross program with Hindu Kush with DC to capitate and have fat bulbs, Afghani always had fat bulbs for me but that was a bag I bought...those were huge, not numerous like a sativa but huge. Maybe even IBL that Nepal x DC, probably some selection out of those..Basically if it's not showing improvement at an F2 or F3, time to out cross or give up. Not going to find anything new that passed on in an F3, then again not sure what sort of sequence goes into good resin...is it short and simple or long and complex? Cause basically I breed with intent to find better crosses, examples of what I want so I can clone that and have seeds very identical if not highly similar to back up that mum. Kinda curious what pops up in the future but not every new release has my interest and it's usually a 'hack' that found a cross I find interesting.

Most blueberry crosses are not DJ's pollen and that brings up serious doubt about selection....and NL's or something well, it seems to be rare to find the keeper genotype and yes I still want to say phenotype but genotype is far more certain/concrete than phenotype...phenotype only remains the same in an indoor controlled environment...if you see phenotypes from crop to crop with an IBL or clone, it's an indication something changed.


Hey "college nugs" haha (sorry that made me laugh),

Phenotype is the observable properties of an organism, the expression of a combination of different variables most prominently the interaction of genes and environment.

Genotype is all hereditary properties/information of an organism even if not expressed.

ie genotype exists before the seed is popped.

In this way one can infer that genotype is the limiting factor of an organism and the expression (phenotype) occurs within the confines of genotype.

So actually the way you propose to use genotype in place of phenotype is incorrect as if you are referring to observable traits within a garden then it is always phenotypical variation one is observing because as you say there is no such thing as a seedline "being" one parent or another. If you take 1 female and one male the resulting seedline all share the same genotype, the variation when grown is phenotypical expression.

Hope this helps, also I'll eat my hat if bubba has any bubblegum in it....


Interesting Trillion, I guess I thought that not all genes pass on from both parents...it still seems that they would at least 'shuffle' or come together randomly...good point bringing up that genotype passes on recessive traits as well....or traits jut not expressed. Probably why F2 or F3's show what wasn't expressed.

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