what the FUCK is wrong with the USA

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squiggly

squiggly

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How can you be so intelligent in some ways, yet so freaking stupid in other ways? Are you one of those people who think the 2nd amendment is about goddamned HUNTING? It's got nothing to do with hunting. The point is to give us a way to defend ourselves from the armies of tyrannical government. Last time I checked, we still have a government and that represents a threat because government controls the military. As long as we have a government with potential for despotism and tyranny, we need to have modern weapons equal to what they could use on us. Otherwise we would be the next cambodia, soviet union or germany.


Actually, you've completely misunderstood my implication.

What I ACTUALLY meant to imply--is that regardless of how many weapons we have of the type we are currently bickering over, we don't stand the slightest chance in the world of doing combat with the US Military.

If we start talking about giving citizens tanks, artillery, and rocket launchers--we might be getting somewhere, but we're not even talking about assault weapons really.


What my point is, is that the will of the people has strayed far from the original idea the constitution was intended to protect (as you, correctly, stated it). There is no militia in the world fit to do battle with the US armed forces, and there likely won't be one for some time to come.

The PROBLEM is that's exactly the opposite is what's being discussed. People ARE more concerned with hunting--they ARE concerned with being able to handle disputes with OTHER CITIZENS (not the government) with firearms when necessary. While people might SAY it's about the constitutional guarantee, very few of them are being honest to say as much (and many of them don't understand the reason for the guarantee--or how moot it is in these times). Most of these people simply like guns, feel safe with them, and don't want the government to take them away.

It has almost zero to do with them being afraid of their inability to combat the government should it become tyrannical. If it did, I'd be with you--but it does not.

Let's be clear--I'm a card carrying NRA member and have participated in shooting competitions since I was very young. I'm quite well aware of gun laws and why they exist, and I'm keenly aware of what guns are capable of, and what people are--by proxy--capable of doing with them.

In a sentence, times have changed. In days long past rifles would've been enough to ensure the government didn't fuck with it's people. That is no longer the case, and it hasn't been for some time.


As far as "intelligence" goes. Intelligence is a measure which doesn't change (at least not drastically once a person has reached maturity--and NEVER changes from topic to topic as this is not how intelligence is measured), it refers to ones aptitude for advanced thinking--not the level of advanced thinking, or time, a person has spent becoming familiar with a topic.

So your answer is that I'm ALWAYS intelligent--I just don't happen to know everything.

I think, probably, the thing which has allowed me to become so intelligent is my acquiescence to the FACT that I will be wrong about things, a lot. This is something which people are not comfortable with these days.

The brain like things to be digestible, and often this leads to strong opinions--be they right or wrong. The folly is in valuing ego over altruism. It's a battle we all wage daily, sometimes we win--sometimes we lose. I think the biggest problem in this country currently is that most of our citizens are losing this battle considerably more than they are winning it.

Age of reason = Over.

Age of Ego = Well under way.
 
squiggly

squiggly

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It's also worth mentioning the expense for the advanced weaponry. It'd be all well and good if we were allowed to build combat Jets of our own and keep them privately in militias--but who is going to pay for this.

The constitution guarantees the right, not the bankroll.

This is essentially what I meant by the reasons having faded. There is no way to scratch out even a mildly respectable militia in this country today as compared with the US military. Extensive military spending over the last 60 years has guaranteed this.

There's just no comparison.

In short:

It's over, man.

The thing the law was meant to protect has been gone for 50 years or more at the very least. It's not coming back.


I question whether we need it to, frankly. The construction of the world has changed so vastly since then. You must remember that revolts were VERY COMMON in the times leading up to this amendment being written in. We're talking literally 1000 years of documented history prior to that point where this was commonplace.

America was really the first country to keep this from happening for any appreciable amount of time until the Civil War broke out. It has all but pacified it since it ended, and the trend has spread globally.

The scars of monarchy created the desire for our founders to include this--while I agree the idea is noble, when's the last time we REALLY had fear of a tyrant in America.

I mean you can drum up some bullshit if you like, but I'll just point you to ANYWHERE else in the world and tell you that you've got it better.

Hell I'll point you to any TIME in the world as well, and say the same thing.


Your conception of a tyrannical government, and the one envisioned by the amendment are two VERY VERY VERY different beasts. No American living today has experienced the kind of governmental usury which ran rampant in those times.

Is there usury? Sure--but again there's no comparison.

It's about the same as the FA-18 vs 30 ot 6 argument.
 
fractal

fractal

2,009
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Ahhh ok sorry for calling you estupido. I have to disagree, the afghanis have done a great job of showing that the world's strongest armies can be defeated with basic weapons through protracted guerilla warfare. I believe that if the US military was used against the civilian population, military AWOLs would go through the roof as they deserted to fight with the people - families of military members would be targeted immediately by resistance and that would be pretty strong incentive to defect. If they brought in NATO to fight the American population our determination would be even greater to kill the invaders and the US military would face similar high levels of desertion as soldiers would absolutely hate the idea of foreign troops killing Americans. It only takes cheap homemade explosives to destroy military vehicles and tanks, and shoulder fired missiles to use against choppers and airplanes would flow in from mexico where they get them from chinese and russian sources.

Also - how would the government operate their planes and tanks without the money to pay for it all? If things ever go to that point the people would stop paying taxes and there would go the government's source of money.
 
smokie

smokie

243
43
A member from another site posted this saying there possibly could be a connection between all these kids doing ultra crazy shit and ssri medications. It seems most of them happened 98-2000 thru current. Maybe these meds are making ppl crazy. Go into a rage and crazier than they would be without them or when they quit them etc
Check out the site

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

66 school shootings / incidents involve SSRI's
http://www.ssristories.com/index.html


Seems a ill bit weird but who knows
It is very sad for these little babies to be slaughtered by this punk pussy
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
Nah man, you're wrong--we totally can never overthrow the American government with rifles. Get fucking real bro. That time has passed--and the entire logical/reasonable thought construct that led to the inclusion of the provision the citizens should have the right to bear arms has all but disappeared. This did not come out of "not liking tyrannical leaders" but rather out of concern for the very real and present damage they had done to our particular situation (as colonists/early Americans then). It was a fail safe against what had plauged the world for 1000 years or more.

That trend is now gone, and it is due in large part to this policy. I'm not saying take everyone's guns away, but the policy itself is rather moot if you take into account the historical significance and meaning. This is akin to laws that govern the ways in which slave ownership was regulated.

They don't matter, we can't have slaves--the shit is over.

To steal a quote from Dexter (forget who said it): The fat lady isn't singning, she's getting dry humped in her dressing room.


As far as conspiracy theories dude, look man--I am all for you having the right to think what you think. What I'm not for is your right to go around being aghast at people and calling them names and treating them as something less than yourself because they "just can't see" or "don't want to see" the NONE proof that you have. All of that nothing is pretty hard to look at, and I just don't appreciate being called a moron, or a conformist, or a sheep, or what-have-you, because I choose to deal with what is tangible and right in front of my face.

I'm a scientist, that's sort of my thing--I apologize ever so much for it, but you'll have to forgive me if I change nothing about myself in accordance with the zero proof you've brought to the table.

Your concept of proof and mine are very different from one another's and this is something else which I can readily accept--but again I would appreciate the same respect from you.

Over the course of our exchanges on the boards, this type of respect and goodwill has been slowly withered away. Hey, I'm a dick sometimes--I take responsibility for my half, if you take responsibility for yours.

What I'm not going to do, is say nothing and be a doormat for someone who is effectively calling me out and saying I'm the fool--when it is my firm belief that he, in fact, is the fool.


Your folly does not bother me, and I'm even willing to discuss it politely and with an open mind--so long as it doesn't seek to implicate me personally. That is not the form arguments of this sort should take, especially when we can at the VERY least agree that there is some dispute about what the truth really is.

If we start at that point, and agree the truth is disputed--we can exchange our ideas with mutual respect. Often we will disagree, if not always. I think that's probably outlined better in this instance than anything. I mean, saying that 20 fuckin 5 year olds being murdered is a government conspiracy....to me that's downright wrong to go there. It doesn't make sense, what you're saying.

You think there's a conspiracy by people who want to reduce gun violence to use gun violence to drive that forward? That they'd just sacrifice some kindergartners? It doesn't make sense, where is the money in this? In political corruption, you follow the fucking money--I don't give a shit what you say. Have you ever been actually active in politics? Like in a political office, or even at an election hq?

I have. It's the money, bro--I promise.

What is this going to sell? Less guns?

That's retarded.

I'm not saying nor did I EVER say that no conspiracy theories have merit.

As a scientist, my skepticism is built into the fucking word itself honestly. It's a theory, that's a thing--with a discrete meaning, and for all intents and purposes that meaning is you don't have a fucking clue.
At the very best you can call it an educated guess--but in reality its more like a guessed guess. You go around and dig up shit, and you guess thats credible--and then you see something else and you guess something about it because of the other thing you guessed was credible--and you just build and build and build like this.

What I want you to know dude, and this is for real, is that this is a psychological pattern. This is how EVERYONE who gets waaay to into conspiracy theories acts, by and large. This is a medically elucidated and studied schema.

You can take that one of a few ways:

1. It's nothing, continue (my guess for what you'll do).

2. Think about it for a second and dismiss it.

3. Believe that this validates you, because other people also develop their thoughts in this way.

4. Realize that maybe you should take a step back from all the "research" for awhile and just live life as if everyone isn't out to get you, or everyone with power isn't out to exploit it, or everyone at "the top" aren't all in cahoots. I.e. just take a fucking breath of fresh air from this shit, even if only for awhile--realizing that it's absolutely caustic to a person's personality.

5. Realize that perhaps you have a problem. (I honestly don't think this is a case, because you don't seem like a true crazy--you just seem like you go waaaay too far with this stuff, and you're almost in the habit of trying to draw connections with everything now).

6. Fuck you, Squiggly.

I'm not trying to therapize you, I actually dated a chick who went around to all the doomsday preppers, conspiracy theorists, and what-not in our area for her psych thesis. She developed a VERY CLEAR profile that you are following, that was present in EVERY SINGLE one she could find--even those from other literature.

This doesn't necessarily say you're crazy, so don't think I mean it that way: it doesn't even mean the preppers or whatever were crazy. What it says is that this is patterned thinking, and that was the point of the thesis.

What it might mean, if you want to turn this on it's head--is that you're just as much a sheep as the rest of us, you're just a different breed of sheep.

Like I said man, the mind tricks us--it wants to draw all these connections, it wants things to make sense, to fit together, to feel right. That's not some touchy feely shrink shit--that is science. Functional MRI has demonstrated this notion CLEARLY. It's one of the most well studied things in psychology, and it is why eyewitness testimony is so untrustworthy. Your brain inserts things where there are holes. If you set out to solve something, you will--you just might not be right.

Your brain can, will, and does trick you into forming complete thoughts out of incomplete ones.

What the chick found with her research was basically that, yes, there is a pattern here--and also that there was a progressive deterioration in terms of their opinions versus the norm (non preppers). The longer they identified themselves as having followed this type of conspiracy/doomsday mentality--the more out of whack their scores were.

I'm not saying you're nuts, I'm just saying--if they're all out to get us, they'll all be out to get us a few months from now also. The rebel cause doesn't need you on board 24 hours a day, especially not if it DOES end up causing you damage.

I don't know who's right or wrong--I can't be more clear about that. Maybe I'm the crazy one for not listening to you--may be. I just actually happen to give a shit if someone is trying to do the right thing by exposing bullshit (of which there certainly IS plenty going on)--and they end up damaging themselves instead. It's something to look out for, it IS NOT A DIAGNOSIS AND IT IS NOT AN ACCUSATION OR AN ATTRIBUTION. I am qualified to make none of these. It is ONLY food for thought.

All I know is what I know, and that's why I stick to what I know. If you can't bring me proof to disprove what I know--then my belief/opinion isn't going to budge a nanometer, because I didn't come to my beliefs and opinions lightly.

So as for the loaded argument about whether or not I need documents in my face or I won't believe anything--no, I'm not that critical, but I'm also not impressionable or suggestible.

I need something, anything, solid to hold on to before I can go thinking the government killed a bunch of people--be they workers in a tower, or kindergartners. I don't believe the government is efficient or well-oiled enough to pull off any of what you're suggesting.

They're all a bunch of morons, like the rest of us--that's plain to see. To my mind, there is no uber "shadow agency" that magically has its shit together in a world where no one else does.

We're all a bunch of fuck ups and it's shows, across all nationalities and distinctions. I don't think the argument really NEEDS more than that in order to explain all the stupidity in the world.

I'm a scientist, dude. PLEASE TELL ME you are intelligent enough to grasp why I don't just believe what you say, and why I question a lot of your "proof". If you truly don't understand that, then it is certain that you need a break from your "conspiratorial" activities.

Scientists deal in certainties. Accuracy and precision--that's all I'm asking. You just categorically never have that in these arguments. Never dude.

A lot of what you say has merit to it, and god damnit you give a shit. That's important--not a lot of people give a shit anymore. However, consider this: if what you say is true about all these conspiracies and what not--then you and I are even more clueless than I think we are.

That only makes your assertions more unreliable in the end. Even if you're right--you're probably wrong.

Someone who thinks they "cracked the conspiracy" (the source of most of your information) is usually nothing more than a person who really needs to feel important, and doesn't--yet.
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
A member from another site posted this saying there possibly could be a connection between all these kids doing ultra crazy shit and ssri medications. It seems most of them happened 98-2000 thru current. Maybe these meds are making ppl crazy. Go into a rage and crazier than they would be without them or when they quit them etc
Check out the site

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

66 school shootings / incidents involve SSRI's
http://www.ssristories.com/index.html


Seems a ill bit weird but who knows
It is very sad for these little babies to be slaughtered by this punk pussy

See now this is actually some evidence. THIS MAKES SENSE.

If you've ever known someone on SSRI's there's a 50/50 chance it makes even MORE sense to you (sometimes they really help people, other times they go batshit).

As a dude who "gets" biochemistry and what SSRI's do, this makes a fuckton of sense.

Because here's the deal--we don't know WHAT THE FUCK we are doing when we are giving people these drugs. We DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE.
 
d420dool

d420dool

432
93
smokie ur comment came out in front to me, that makes alot of sense man, those meds are very dangerous for certain people. im also throwin this out there, maybe the kid did k2 or bathsalts, just a thought, cuz ive heard sum wack shit bout the k2 and bath salts.
 
caregiverken

caregiverken

Fear Not!
Supporter
11,535
438
How can you be so intelligent in some ways, yet so freaking stupid in other ways? Are you one of those people who think the 2nd amendment is about goddamned HUNTING? It's got nothing to do with hunting. The point is to give us a way to defend ourselves from the armies of tyrannical government. Last time I checked, we still have a government and that represents a threat because government controls the military. As long as we have a government with potential for despotism and tyranny, we need to have modern weapons equal to what they could use on us. Otherwise we would be the next cambodia, soviet union or germany. The freaking REASON is as relevant as ever what is wrong with you?

Smiley-Clapping2.gif
 
Classic Remix

Classic Remix

1,800
263
the problem with this argument is assuming everyone in the american government would turn against their families, friends, relatives, neighbors, just to do.... who the fuck knows what.

like i have always said, the government are people too. sure there are some fucktard politicians but there are still good guys out there in all the ranks, the people that would do the actual commanding.

and to be honest everyone i've ever met in the military is exactly what i just said, here for america, not for the orders.

let the media twist your mind which ever way, but the fat fuck on capital hill gettin 6 figures a year to talk shit only controls the world on paper. everything else will be chaos held together with good people.
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

1,904
263
See now this is actually some evidence. THIS MAKES SENSE.

If you've ever known someone on SSRI's there's a 50/50 chance it makes even MORE sense to you (sometimes they really help people, other times they go batshit).

As a dude who "gets" biochemistry and what SSRI's do, this makes a fuckton of sense.

Because here's the deal--we don't know WHAT THE FUCK we are doing when we are giving people these drugs. We DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE.

Pretty typical these days, seems like there's a pill for everything...
 
squiggly

squiggly

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263
so because we cant win, we should give up? o_O

Or like this with a rifle in one hand

View attachment 275868

You're not even fighting them. No one is going to. The point isn't only that we couldn't win a fight, but that a fight isn't going to happen in the first place.

Also, how do you know he was fake crying? Or are you just talking out of your ass?

He's also not drone bombing Iran. Iran has fighter jets. Maybe post a b-roll pic with some truth to it next time--might actually have, you know, meaning.

I'm also certain they are specifically targeting the women and children. Just like the murderer in Conn. You're right, what was I thinking? Obviously drones were intended to murder children and they specifically target them.

How bout an original thought? I've seen enough of your posts to know that you actually have those. They are innumerably more impactful than copy/pasting another person's work who can't get their facts straight.

(The eagle/mouse pic is awesome, though, admittedly)
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
18 kids dead now?

how many shootings this year?

jesus christ people, and the feds continue to tell people not to chill and smoke a j?


this shit is getting ridiculous. south of the border doesnt even sound so bad now...
A few things are wrong. I'm refusing to read the story, but based on what's being relayed it sounds like this guy has the same issues as the guy who shot Rep. Giffords in Arizona--just fucking batshit crazy.

So, what's the problem with the USA? Perhaps it's our continued stigmatization of mental illness. Refusal to treat it like any other illness. Politicizing it, using that to polarize people.

That, and we're apathetic and a bunch of amnesiacs, we won't remember this in a month.

Not to change the subject, or downplay this tragedy, but what about all the kids (and innocent adults) all over the world that get killed every day by our military, or any other militant people with weapons? Are they less important, because they're not white, or it's not as well televised, or they're not Christian, or whatever?? if we are going to talk about 'gun control' let's go to the top.
That was my first thought--what about all the others? Do our hearts break as broken? No, they actually don't. Yet it's still just as tragic, if not moreso.
 
sky high

sky high

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313
I can't wrap my head around the thought that we need more guns to make us all "safer".

That's like saying California needs 10X the cars to make their traffic problems "better".

:rolleyes:

to me...>more isn't less<...but we all see it differently...and therein...lies the problem :D
 
GR33NL3AF

GR33NL3AF

1,904
263
Yes, the media does a great job avoiding the countless other children killed around the world but this happened on our own soil and IS more important, bottom line. You have to know there are hundreds/thousands of other sick fucks who are feeding off of events as this, plotting there 'claim to fame'.
 

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