What's Wrong With My Plants?

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Mids4lyfe

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These plants have been begging for almost 4 weeks now and they just aren't really growing. Idk what's going on. The clones all looked nice when we put them in and they did ok for a few days then they just kinda stopped growing. I noticed a little algae build up in the res so I emptied the system and did a flush with uc roots and h2o2 for a few days then put fresh ro water and light nutes for about a week. The roots were dark and ugly looking but now they have some new white roots popping out but the plants still look like shit. What should I do?
 
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Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
What nutrients are you running? (You should probably not be running h2o2... how many ml/gal of uc roots?)
What’s your ppm/ec?
What’s your ph?
What is your water temps?
Where is your water level?
What lights/how many watts?

Edit: you could maybe save some of those but starting over with fresh clones in my opinion would be a way better idea if possible..
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
Running current culture nutes
5ml of uc roots
Ppm is at 400 (700 scale)
Ec 0.6
pH 6.0
Water temp is 68°
Water level is about a half inch below net pots
Running 8 630 watt LECs

I know I should probably toss them and start over but I want to find out what the issue is or was so that this doesn't happen again.


What nutrients are you running? (You should probably not be running h2o2... how many ml/gal of uc roots?)
What’s your ppm/ec?
What’s your ph?
What is your water temps?
Where is your water level?
What lights/how many watts?

Edit: you could maybe save some of those but starting over with fresh clones in my opinion would be a way better idea if possible..
 
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
Running current culture nutes
5ml of uc roots
Ppm is at 400 (700 scale)
Ec 0.6
pH 6.0
Water temp is 68°
Water level is about a half inch below net pots
Running 8 630 watt LECs

I know I should probably toss them and start over but I want to find out what the issue is or was so that this doesn't happen again.

Your using ro water I’m guessing?
How many weeks old are those? I usually wait to start upping my nutes slowly till I can tell they is growing good/eating. How often do you add uc roots back into the system? 400 seems a bit high with cultured solutions for veg.

Are they bare root or they have rockwool? Usually for all of veg I’m at 1/4” above planting deck for bare root and 1/4” below planting deck for rockwool.. then during first week of flower or so I’ll drop the water level to 1/4” below bottom of net pots.

What’s the room temp/rh?

Is this the first round you have done in this system? When you trash these plants make sure you scrub the shit out of every single thing in those buckets with a good water/bleach solution..

Also looks like you have been trimming everything super crucially, unless all the stuff you have been pulling off is dead stuff anyways..

Your using the air pump that came with the system correct?
 
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Dunge

Dunge

2,233
263
What has gotten attention is a big room with a few struggling plants, and many empty spots.
We can all see what you are up against, and you can trust that we want to see you succeed.
Do the reading Toph420 offered and tell us more about your environmental controls.
Some scoff, and say it's a weed.
But we know better.
You can do this.
 
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
where did you buy your CS nutes from? Take a picture of the bottles I’m wondering if you got some old stuff.. I originally ordered all my CS nutes from amazon and had to return every single bottle cause they were all expired..
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
Yes in using RO water. These plants are about 4 weeks old. I have only been adding UC roots when I do a water change every week. Should I be adding it more often? According to the feeding chart it says I should be at 450 ppm at week 4 of veg. Is that too high? They were bare roots straight from the ez cloner when I put them in. Originally the water level was at about halfway between the bottom of the net pot and the top on the planting deck. I lowered it to a little below the bottom of the net pot once they had decent roots. Should I have left it where it's at? We had issues with root rot our first run bc we had the water level way too high and never lowered it until it was too late. Room temps are around 75-82 lights on and like 65-70 lights off. Our humidity is usually pretty low around 30% I bought a humidifier about a week ago and that has raised it to closer to 50% I think it still needs to be higher though. I've only been trimming off dead leaves. I am using the air pumps that came with the system.

I did buy the nutes off of Amazon so I'm going to check the expiration dates when I go to the warehouse today.

I've read everything on the CC site but I am going to go though it again and re-read everything. Thanks for all the help!
 
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
Yes in using RO water. These plants are about 4 weeks old. I have only been adding UC roots when I do a water change every week. Should I be adding it more often? According to the feeding chart it says I should be at 450 ppm at week 4 of veg. Is that too high? They were bare roots straight from the ez cloner when I put them in. Originally the water level was at about halfway between the bottom of the net pot and the top on the planting deck. I lowered it to a little below the bottom of the net pot once they had decent roots. Should I have left it where it's at? We had issues with root rot our first run bc we had the water level way too high and never lowered it until it was too late. Room temps are around 75-82 lights on and like 65-70 lights off. Our humidity is usually pretty low around 30% I bought a humidifier about a week ago and that has raised it to closer to 50% I think it still needs to be higher though. I've only been trimming off dead leaves. I am using the air pumps that came with the system.

I did buy the nutes off of Amazon so I'm going to check the expiration dates when I go to the warehouse today.

I've read everything on the CC site but I am going to go though it again and re-read everything. Thanks for all the help!

So I know their chart says 400ish ppm by week 4 but thats only if they have been drinking nutrients/water on the regular and you can see the ppm dropping. If they are not eating good then you need to lower nutrients until they start eating basically.. On week one i usually start off at about 90-100 ppm but by the end of week one I'm sitting right at their recommended 140ppm (700 scale).. i gradually raise the ppm through the week.

You should add UC roots every 4days or so, usually i go 2-3ml/per gal, water level for bare root cuttings should be about 1/4" ABOVE the planting deck until about week 2 of veg then make sure a decent amount of roots are growing out of the net pot and you can lower it to about 1/4" below the bottom of the net pot. lowering the water level gradually is good as well if possible..

Do you have any cuts in the EZ cloner currently? I bet your problem began with this system. What are you water temps in the Ez cloner? What/how much nutrients are you using in the EZ cloner? Consider getting one of these for your EZ cloner to keep water temps ideal, also put water pump on 15on/15off timer.

of these https://www.amazon.com/IceProbe-Thermoelectric-Aquarium-Chiller/dp/B001JSVLBO

Do you have a UV sterilizer on your RO system? are you on city water or well water? Do you have RO water hooked up to your float valve or do you have a reservoir with pre mixed nutrients hooked to the float valve?
take a picture of your nutrient bottles for me as well if you can, i can tell you straight away just looking at the labels if they are old or not.

Growershouse & hydrobuilder are the only 2 websites i trust to send out fresh CS nutrients. Not worth saving a dollar to get old expired stuff. I did the exact same thing and found chunks in some of the bottles. All CS stuff is super clear, some have a tint of brown but there should not be any floaties at all.
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
So I know their chart says 400ish ppm by week 4 but thats only if they have been drinking nutrients/water on the regular and you can see the ppm dropping. If they are not eating good then you need to lower nutrients until they start eating basically.. On week one i usually start off at about 90-100 ppm but by the end of week one I'm sitting right at their recommended 140ppm (700 scale).. i gradually raise the ppm through the week.

You should add UC roots every 4days or so, usually i go 2-3ml/per gal, water level for bare root cuttings should be about 1/4" ABOVE the planting deck until about week 2 of veg then make sure a decent amount of roots are growing out of the net pot and you can lower it to about 1/4" below the bottom of the net pot. lowering the water level gradually is good as well if possible..

Do you have any cuts in the EZ cloner currently? I bet your problem began with this system. What are you water temps in the Ez cloner? What/how much nutrients are you using in the EZ cloner? Consider getting one of these for your EZ cloner to keep water temps ideal, also put water pump on 15on/15off timer.

of these https://www.amazon.com/IceProbe-Thermoelectric-Aquarium-Chiller/dp/B001JSVLBO

Do you have a UV sterilizer on your RO system? are you on city water or well water? Do you have RO water hooked up to your float valve or do you have a reservoir with pre mixed nutrients hooked to the float valve?
take a picture of your nutrient bottles for me as well if you can, i can tell you straight away just looking at the labels if they are old or not.

Growershouse & hydrobuilder are the only 2 websites i trust to send out fresh CS nutrients. Not worth saving a dollar to get old expired stuff. I did the exact same thing and found chunks in some of the bottles. All CS stuff is super clear, some have a tint of brown but there should not be any floaties at all.


The first week or so they seemed to be doing good and all had decent roots that's why I lowered the water level. I guess I should have kept it higher and gone lighter on the nutes.

So I should be adding UC roots every 4 days even if I'm doing a water change every 7 days?

We bought these clones from someone so idk anything about the conditions of his cloner. They all looked good when we got them though. I'll definitely be taking my own cuts next time.

I'll send pics of the nutes as soon as I can.

No uv sterilizer. City water. The RO goes to a top off res that is hooked up to the float valve. The top off res is where I noticed the algae build up. Could that have caused all this?
 
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
The first week or so they seemed to be doing good and all had decent roots that's why I lowered the water level. I guess I should have kept it higher and gone lighter on the nutes.

So I should be adding UC roots every 4 days even if I'm doing a water change every 7 days?

We bought these clones from someone so idk anything about the conditions of his cloner. They all looked good when we got them though. I'll definitely be taking my own cuts next time.

I'll send pics of the nutes as soon as I can.

No uv sterilizer. City water. The RO goes to a top off res that is hooked up to the float valve. The top off res is where I noticed the algae build up. Could that have caused all this?

Yea I definitely would wait till about end of week 2 to start dropping the water level. If you change out the water every week you shouldn’t need to add uc roots, that’s a lot of water change outs heh..

Ah well if they all looked good (roots white as paper) then that wouldn’t be the source of your problem.

I would bet the top off res is a big contributor to this problem. I personally have my system hooked direct to the RO water as top off. But having the RO as top off means I have to add nutrients every night when the lights turn on. One thing I’ve heard people do to prevent that in their top off res is drop a 100gph pump in there and just let it run. Imo eliminate the top off res for now and hook the RO water direct to your float valve.. I would highly recommend getting new cuts at that point if possible..

If your nervous about the problem not being fixed you could just do a small test run to make sure your doing everything 100%.. I have a 6 bucket system with 2x 600watt hps and I had to cut 2 of the plants out due to herm issues. So now I’m just running 4 plants with 1x 600watt hps and it’s working great..

For me the rule of thumb is if you smell it then it’s there. I have a 45 gallon trash can as my reservoir to change out the water in my system. I clean it with a bleach water solution before I use it EVERYTIME.
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
Yea I definitely would wait till about end of week 2 to start dropping the water level. If you change out the water every week you shouldn’t need to add uc roots, that’s a lot of water change outs heh..

Ah well if they all looked good (roots white as paper) then that wouldn’t be the source of your problem.

I would bet the top off res is a big contributor to this problem. I personally have my system hooked direct to the RO water as top off. But having the RO as top off means I have to add nutrients every night when the lights turn on. One thing I’ve heard people do to prevent that in their top off res is drop a 100gph pump in there and just let it run. Imo eliminate the top off res for now and hook the RO water direct to your float valve.. I would highly recommend getting new cuts at that point if possible..

If your nervous about the problem not being fixed you could just do a small test run to make sure your doing everything 100%.. I have a 6 bucket system with 2x 600watt hps and I had to cut 2 of the plants out due to herm issues. So now I’m just running 4 plants with 1x 600watt hps and it’s working great..

For me the rule of thumb is if you smell it then it’s there. I have a 45 gallon trash can as my reservoir to change out the water in my system. I clean it with a bleach water solution before I use it EVERYTIME.


I power washed the res and poured a ton of bleach into the res then flushed it out a few times. It seems pretty damn clean now but I don't really know... I'll probably do what you said and hook the RO straight to the float for now. I'm heading to the warehouse now so I'll get those pics of the nutes for you soon.
 
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
I power washed the res and poured a ton of bleach into the res then flushed it out a few times. It seems pretty damn clean now but I don't really know... I'll probably do what you said and hook the RO straight to the float for now. I'm heading to the warehouse now so I'll get those pics of the nutes for you soon.

Did you only power wash/rinse it out or did you scrub it too? I have an old tooth brush and a new toilet scrubber as my 2 scrubber tools..

Also one thing to note when i fill up my res to do a water change out its full after about 10 hours of filling, i try to use that water within 24hours of when the res started to fill. If you can't do that i would recommend putting a water pump in there or some air stones to keep the water circulating which keeps it fresh.
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
Did you only power wash/rinse it out or did you scrub it too? I have an old tooth brush and a new toilet scrubber as my 2 scrubber tools..

Also one thing to note when i fill up my res to do a water change out its full after about 10 hours of filling, i try to use that water within 24hours of when the res started to fill. If you can't do that i would recommend putting a water pump in there or some air stones to keep the water circulating which keeps it fresh.

I have an airstone and a pump in the res. I only power washed it. I don't really have a way to scrub it bc it's a 275 gal res with a very small opening on the top.
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
Here are the pics of the nutes. I can't find an expiration date on any of the bottles unless it is that number printed on the top of the UC roots bottle. It said 042017 if that's the date then it's definitely expired. None of the other ones have a number printed on the top.
 
IMG 20171106 164035
IMG 20171106 164132
IMG 20171106 164153
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
I have an airstone and a pump in the res. I only power washed it. I don't really have a way to scrub it bc it's a 275 gal res with a very small opening on the top.

Hmm yea i guess that will have to do then.. In that case just remember if you smell the funk then its there and you should probably avoid using the tainted water.

Those are definitely the new bottles and such, i didnt find an expiration date on mine either but i could tell because they have changed the labeling on their bottles so many times (changed manufacturers).. They say their nutrients only last on the shelf for about 12 months..

When did you buy the nutrients? i think the 4/20/17 is the date it was made.
 
A

Aldo Durden

12
3
I'm far from an expert, but I had slow growth, but for the opposite reason, but maybe it ended up being beneficial. I have a 1744gph air pump blowing what I had calculated to well over 1.25+ lpm/gal in my 5 site 40gal capacity system with about 25-28 actual gallons of solution running through it.

My math had my lpm/gal of air at what cch2o recommends their "Pro" feeding schedule. So, I fed my re-vegged, monster cropped GSC clones half of what you are feeding on the "recirculating high yield" feeding schedule.

Well it's my first grow so I was afraid of overfeeding, but IN MY SITUATION, I stopped pussy-footing around and started slowly upping nutes, checking for changes. The change was that they took off like they were supposed to in the first place. Weak roots turned to strong. They were under fed.

Yours look like they got burnt by nutrients to me. Mine would never have been able to handle 400 ppm at that size. Try to treat them by size and root structure/health rather than by timing weekly. UC Roots religiously will provide you longer time between changes too if you need to give them a few more days.

In conclusion, start low! But put the time in to dial daily if need to get them to eat, or you are wasting time and money. Use UC Roots, and then after that, use UC Roots, then..... use it again. Although expensive, used every 4-5 days (rez temps below 68), it's a small price to pay for not only the protection it provides your system, it allows your roots to freely uptake water and nutrients unencumbered.

I just made a little "grow so far" journal in this section, you can check it out here. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/monster-crop-under-current-gsc-nl-current-culture.92558/
 
M

Mids4lyfe

54
8
So I checked with CC and those nutes aren't expired yet.

I think I'm gonna scrap these and start over. Everyone keeps saying to use a ton of uc roots. Is it possible to use too much of it?
 
Toph420

Toph420

1,145
263
So I checked with CC and those nutes aren't expired yet.

I think I'm gonna scrap these and start over. Everyone keeps saying to use a ton of uc roots. Is it possible to use too much of it?

Yep, When I saw them I instantly recognized they were the new bottles. Definitely not expired. Happened to me, just wanted to make sure didn’t happen to you..

Scrapping them is the best decision imo, since your system had some stuff growin in it I would take it all apart and scrub er down real nice.. fresh start..

Yea you can use too much uc roots, although I think you’d really have to use a lot... are you still planning to change res every week? How many buckets is your system? 13 gallon or 8 gallon buckets?

one other thing I forgot to ask, when you do a res change out do you do it lights on or lights off? I find changing the res during lights off if possible Is best because the res will be colder (no heat from lights) and shocks the plants less when it first hits the roots, and during the time the roots are sitting in mid air while your draining/filling the system the lights are not warming the roots up..

Hmm yea i guess that will have to do then.. In that case just remember if you smell the funk then its there and you should probably avoid using the tainted water.

Those are definitely the new bottles and such, i didnt find an expiration date on mine either but i could tell because they have changed the labeling on their bottles so many times (changed manufacturers).. They say their nutrients only last on the shelf for about 12 months..

When did you buy the nutrients? i think the 4/20/17 is the date it was made.
 

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