Why I don't recommend autoflowers to new growers

  • Thread starter ArtfulCodger
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
ArtfulCodger

ArtfulCodger

1,804
263
Not that anyone asked, but here's why I don't usually recommend autoflowers to new indoor growers. Before I begin, I want to say that I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm not saying autoflowers are bad. I've grown them outdoors when I've gotten a late start in our short New England summers. Lots of growers enjoy autos, and that's great. To each their own. Expert growers like Autopotamus and Bill Ward grow magnificent plants from autoflowering seeds. With that out of the way, here are three challenges that come with autos that I think are worth considering for new growers when choosing genetics.

#1: Veg heals all wounds.

One of the great things about the veg phase for photoperiod plants is that there's no rush. If we screw up watering, feeding, or lighting, accidentally snap them, get bugs, or any of the other interesting mistakes we all make/made when we start/ed out...it's no big deal. We make adjustments and veg longer until they're the size we want and they're healthy. If we lose a plant, we can veg the remaining plants longer. Then, we flip to flower and fill our space with buds. Not only does this let us go into flower healthy, but it also gives us time to learn how to correct whatever we did wrong. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Autos don't work that way. When an auto seed gets wet, the fuse is lit. It will start flowering when it wants to, not when you want it to. If you do everything right, that's great. But how many of us did everything right on our first run?

#2: Size matters.

This one might be a little more controversial, but it's based on an idea that I suspect is appealing to most of us: More bud is better than less bud. Yield is driven by light. After the first three weeks of flower, every photon that hits the floor without being blocked by a leaf or bud site is wasted. We pay for lights, we pay for space, we pay for electricity. By the time the stretch is over, I don't want to be able to see the floor from above. I want a carpet of bud sites, soaking up all that expensive light.

It's easy to make a carpet of bud sites with photoperiod plants. Veg until the flowering footprint is half full of healthy plants. Then flip to flower and the stretch will fill the space. Again, autos don't work that way. When an auto seed gets wet, the fuse is lit. It will start flowering when it wants to, not when you want it to. Maybe that will fill the space. Maybe it won't. I like to know for sure.

#3: They're tough to clone.

Another great feature of photoperiod cannabis is that you can clone it. When you find something in a photoperiod variety that you love, you can theoretically run it forever without buying more genetics. It's technically possible to clone autos, but it's not easy, and the results are variable at best. Taking cuttings from an auto doesn't reset the flower clock. If the mother plant was close to flowering, the clones are close to flowering, which might not afford enough time to establish good roots. That impacts yield and quality. Cloning probably isn't a major consideration for new growers, but I think it's worth including, simply because it's a relatively easy way to keep stuff we like and save money on genetics.

This is not an exhaustive list. It's just three things worth considering if you're picking genetics for your first run. Just my $0.02, of course. There are lots of ways to grow.
 
LoveGrowingIt

LoveGrowingIt

Supporter
3,737
263
Halloweed

Halloweed

203
43
Yeah, autos are not forgiving. Its easy to screw something up. Ive used it as a learning experience.

I started with autos mainly for space and because I figured it'd be cheaper on electric so I'm not running everything constantly.

But I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. Electric is expensive af nowadays. I have a limited edition seed from Seedsman id like to grow but its a photo.

I will probably try running that next. Just wish I knew how to clone. If the weed is good I'd like to grow more so I need to learn.
 
orggrwr

orggrwr

263
93
I totally agree. When I started growing I fell into that trap and started with autos, had all kinds of problems caused mostly by my rookie mistakes. So dealt with low yields of not very good weed my first few grows but finally got the hang of it somewhat. The upside is when I started growing photos it was a breeze compared to fussy autos. Now I pretty much just grow photos indoors and only grow autos in the greenhouse.
 
LoveGrowingIt

LoveGrowingIt

Supporter
3,737
263
RQS sells autos. I'd be surprised if they didn't recommend them.
Well then, how about this from the self-proclaimed world's largest seedbank:
Feminized autoflowering cannabis seeds are easy to cultivate: They flower without the need to change light cycles or remove males. Automatic seeds are ideal for new growers, and for those who want a low-maintenance growing experience. [The emphasis is mine.]
Source: https://sensiseeds.com/en/autoflowering

Of course they're going to push what they sell. Like any business, they compete for our money--and a lot of money can be made selling seeds. But why are they selling them? Why capitalize their R&D?

So, if we can consider how this is about doing business (which is my academic background), why do these businesses think it's good business to sell them at all, regardless of whether they're pushing them to new growers?

Why do they want new growers to imprint (lock in) on growing them? Is it their belief that that's an area of opportunity for future growth?

What is the competitive advantage they expect to achieve by breeding and selling autos? Who is buying them? What customer needs are being met? What customer needs are not being met but could be met by growing autos?

Is there a larger plan to reshape the seed-selling and home-growing industries? How do the largest seed sellers foresee the future of their markets?
 
ArtfulCodger

ArtfulCodger

1,804
263
So, if we can consider how this is about doing business (which is my academic background), why do these businesses think it's good business to sell them at all, regardless of whether they're pushing them to new growers?
OK, think of it in terms of Porter's five forces, specifically, the threat of substitution. Cloning and breeding are both potential substitutes to seed buying. Autos aren't good for either.
 
Grownsince95

Grownsince95

🤘😆👍
Supporter
2,572
263
I like "the fuse is lit" analogy. Perfectly describes how it feels.

Imagine your a new grower. All this daunting info out there when you start about veg and flower and flipping light cycles or sexing reg seeds. Then there's training, topping, scrogging etc...It's a lot to wrap your head around.

Imagine if someone said to you "don't worry about any of that stuff just grow an auto"

For someone who just wants to take a shot for the first time it's a hard proposition to turn down. Just my .02
 
Grownsince95

Grownsince95

🤘😆👍
Supporter
2,572
263
Companies are working really hard to engineer cannabis seeds that grow sterile plants. They say it's an attempt to prevent accidental pollination by nearby hemp fields and increase yield but we all know where this is going. 😞
 
Galgrows

Galgrows

2,581
263
Yeah, autos are not forgiving. Its easy to screw something up. Ive used it as a learning experience.

I started with autos mainly for space and because I figured it'd be cheaper on electric so I'm not running everything constantly.

But I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. Electric is expensive af nowadays. I have a limited edition seed from Seedsman id like to grow but its a photo.

I will probably try running that next. Just wish I knew how to clone. If the weed is good I'd like to grow more so I need to learn.
Please don't give up with trying to clone. Just one plant can give you dozens of clones so when your ready we can help. It takes abit of time and practice but you can do it, if i can you sure can. And keep researching the how to clone stuff.
 
C

ChaseH

54
18
Companies are working really hard to engineer cannabis seeds that grow sterile plants. They say it's an attempt to prevent accidental pollination by nearby hemp fields and increase yield but we all know where this is going. 😞
Riding on my wave now chameleon? Tell us where it's going, and why.
 
Last edited:
Ninjadogma

Ninjadogma

697
143
Companies are working really hard to engineer cannabis seeds that grow sterile plants. They say it's an attempt to prevent accidental pollination by nearby hemp fields and increase yield but we all know where this is going. 😞

Yup I've said it before, its like the cannabis industry has ripped pages from the playbooks of the American Cattle Association and the American Kennel Club... Keep the prices high through limited availability, and assert control over genetics. This is why a single cannabis seed costs $10 and a pack of tomato seeds costs $2.99.
 
C

ChaseH

54
18
why do these businesses think it's good business to sell them at all,
To get them used to growing hemp hybrids, normalizing it. Part of the process. Considering your focus, you should probably know some of the background.


 
C

ChaseH

54
18
Yup I've said it before, its like the cannabis industry has ripped pages from the playbooks of the American Cattle Association and the American Kennel Club... Keep the prices high through limited availability, and assert control over genetics. This is why a single cannabis seed costs $10 and a pack of tomato seeds costs $2.99.
More like from the dutch tulip playbook.
 
C

ChaseH

54
18
Please don't give up with trying to clone. Just one plant can give you dozens of clones so when your ready we can help. It takes abit of time and practice but you can do it, if i can you sure can. And keep researching the how to clone stuff.
"At a 1997 Vancouver Hemp conference, Watson spoke of his research. His main focus was to stop growers from cloning nor being able to create any seeds from strains being bred in Amsterdam. The funding for this research came partially from the Dutch Government, the rest from the DEA"

Noticed how plants are getting harder to clone? Thank Sam the Bunkman
 
C

ChaseH

54
18
Yeah, autos are not forgiving. Its easy to screw something up. Ive used it as a learning experience.

I started with autos mainly for space and because I figured it'd be cheaper on electric so I'm not running everything constantly.

But I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. Electric is expensive af nowadays. I have a limited edition seed from Seedsman id like to grow but its a photo.

I will probably try running that next. Just wish I knew how to clone. If the weed is good I'd like to grow more so I need to learn.
If its decent genetics you cut a branch 5 or 6 inches long, from the middle to lower part of the plant just below a node at a 45 degree angle. Only cut off the bottom leaves if there is any where it goes into the pellet. Stick it in one of those expanding peat pellets after its soaked with water. Cut the sack around it away, and toss it in the trash. Put it in a humidity dome covered. Mist it with water and a weak diluted nutrient feed every day or 2. Wait 2 weeks, and you see roots popping out. It's really that simple. Acclimate it for a few days to lower and lower humidity, transplant. Doesn't outperform a seed though.
 
Last edited:
ArtfulCodger

ArtfulCodger

1,804
263
I think autos are headed to the big pharms and their grow ops.
I suspect that, in general, commercial growers prefer clones. You know what you're getting, both genetically and in terms of grow duration. Variation is the enemy in production processes.
 
C

ChaseH

54
18
I suspect that, in general, commercial growers prefer clones. You know what you're getting, both genetically and in terms of grow duration. Variation is the enemy in production processes.
No idea what you mean by commercial grower. A friend of mine has 4 farms in 2 states and works in the legal industry. He's not wasting time with clones for supplying customers, I can tell you that. He's also growing all stabilized, so everything is more predictable. I can see how you might theorize clones because of the variation in unstable polyhybrids.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom