Yellow Leaves, little white bugs

[MiksterUK]

I am looking for help with this old problem, everything just turns yellow. There is a bit of a story so if the moderators will let me post this i will give you all the details.... a real brain teaser.

 

[ojd]

cover your soil/coco with an inch of sand water and bugs will float to the top geting shreded up in sand

if thats your problem litle wrigley bugs in soil/coco

please give more details before we can help you

 

[lil miss lone]

You have root aphids brother, here I did a thread have a look see if thats not your problem. Luck to ya!

 

[MiksterUK]

Thanks for your feedback......Ill try anything.

 

[MiksterUK]

Thanks for the feed back Lil Miss lone, I have read your thread and no disrespect to other users but it was your thread and one by FoCo that made me join up, I just had to speak with you when I read your thread.....I think you have the answer to my problem....I am going to post the details and would really appreciate your feedback.

 

[MiksterUK]

I have been asked to gather information for my" mate Dave" as he is too paranoid to use his computer, so if you are a rozzer reading this please leave my door and hinges alone.

One of the things I need to know is as follows, dave has had a problem for a while where everthing he did just turned yellow then brown within a couple of weeks of flowering. The plants had stunted growth and turned pale yellow, he went through all the diagnosis problems with nutes etc but nothing seamed to help.

At first he was using NFT hydro tables/trays, the dude at the local grow shop said to ditch the system and go coco (strange cos dave is not a newbie and has good results with the NFT but at his wits end he tried coco. The problem still persisted, after putting 12 fresh clones into pots with coco and feeding etc as he should the problem appeared again, someone suggested it was light deficiency causing this and it would show all kinds of misguiding signs, i.e nitregon or cal def, so to do a test dave bought a brand new 600w and introduced a healthy mother to the same room as the twelve sick plants were in.

Now it was at this point after researching online that he realised his sick plants were showing signs of Thrip damage, a closer look and little white bugs were found all over the sick plants as well as the healthy mother, and one little beetle type of bug dark with stripes horizontel on its back was found stuck to the filter. Within a week or so of bieng in the same room the once healthy mother is looking as sick as the others, turning yellow(although it is looking better than the others probably because it is a strong older plant.

So my question is, could these bugs cause the problem in hydro and in cocoa even tho the room was plant free for a few weeks? And also would these little buggers cause them other to turn bad so quickley?

I would also appreciate advice on the best way to get rid of them.

Lil miss lone or Foco, if you read this is this the same thing that happened to you guys.

Waiting anxiously for any feedback.

 

[lil miss lone]

These things can lay dormant for who knows how long! Behind the panda, under the lip of a pot, who knows where. Was the room totally sanitized and cleaned out before new plants were put in? That is where I would have started.

In veg, Bayer Tree and Shrub (Imadocloprid) at 20 to 30ml per gallon, in combination with Spectracide (triazicide) at 11 to 15 ml per gallon flood through is what you need to do in veg. Spectracide first. Both are found at a hardware store (Home Depot) for cheap like $6 bucks a bottle or somat. Are there any flyers anywhere?

In flower, because we don't want to use those chems so close to harvest (I believe Imid takes like 60 days to clear) I used Azatrol (or Azamax) at 30ml per gallon as a flood through, then also the Azatrol (or max) at 8ml per 500ml (with some type of wetting agent) as a spray and soaked the medium and lower stem every 3 days. Azamax won't kill them, just keep them under control till harvest.

Any other questions I'd be happy to answer. :)

 

[Seamaiden]

Gotta put bells on lil miss's post here, but will clarify regarding imidacloprid (not sure, but I *think* it's banned in the EU) -- the waiting period is tied directly to the strength of imid applied. So, Merit 75, which is 75% imid requires a 60 day window, whereas if you use the OTC stuff, which weighs in at 1.74% (please, someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, going from memory and, well, I smoke weed ALL DAY LONG), maybe it's 1.47%, but in any event, the allowable harvest window on that, assuming application in accordance with label directions, is more like 30 days.

Don't waste time on diatomaceous earth as it does not a thing to reduce numbers. However, I've just read a paper that showed in experiments that female root aphids simply refuse to lay eggs in soils inoculated specifically with Trichoderma harzianum. Just won't approach, period. I will be applying this, along with nematodes, to my own outdoor areas in the hopes that I will prevent future infections with root aphids, as I did see them last year outdoors, but mistook them for another relatively harmless pest.

 

[MiksterUK]

Hi again, well not literally...lol. In answer to your question, the healthy mother was put in along side the 12 sick plants and within a couple of week the mother started to turn pale green, then yellow and develop the same symptoms as the sick ones.

Seems like a dumb thing to do with hindsight but in fairness at this point the thoughts were on light def and not bugs. could thrips or aphids or even spidermite really do so much damage so quickly, this is an important point that we need to figuire out cos maybe, just maybe this bug problem is a secondary problem and not the cause of the yellowing. Hope it is the bugs cos at least there is a resolve, almost at quitting point until the bugs were noticed.

More bad news now as the mothers(in a seperate room are showing the slug like trails of thrips now and I noticed a few spots of spidermite too. Do you think its time to rip everything out, burn the lot, a massive clean and sanitise and then start agin or would you try and persevere?

Your feed back is appreciated.....

 

[MiksterUK]

Thanks seamaiden, a bit techie for me to follow, laymans terms please.....

 

[MiksterUK]

LiL Miss lone, I forgot to mention, the sick plants were destroyed and when examing the roots nothing was noticed crawling around.... do you think thrips would cause the yellowing etc? I apologise if some of the questions seem a bit dumb.....

 

[amstercal]

Let's cover these little white bugs some more... where are they hanging out? You mention spider mite and thrip damage--are you saying that's what the white bugs are?

Root aphids literally hang out in the roots. Some little white crab versions of ra like to crawl out of the medium sometimes, but still mostly in the medium where you can't ever see them. Unless you were really really thorough when you tore apart the roots, like every section, they can be missed.

What color were the roots when you examined them and how did they smell?

As for white bugs, here's a brief list of the ones I can think off the top of my head...
spider mites, thrips, aphids, root aphids and springtails.

The key to most of this would be where are you finding these white bugs and what do they look like? Fliers or just crawlers? Are there any black flying things in the room as well?

I would think that if the thrip damage was bad enough to cause the yellowing, the thrip-damaged leaves would have been noticeable long before the yellowing, but I've never dealt with thrips so just a supposition.

I almost never tell people to rip it all out and start again, but if you are sure you have thrips, mites and maybe something else and the plants already look awful, I can't imagine trying to battle that. That being said mites and root aphids will be happy to lay eggs that can hide anywhere. Carpet and carbon filters are faves or theirs. Personally, I like to keep my plants alive until I'm sure I've figured out what I have and know how to kill it. Obviously some pics would help here.

 

[ronvmpc]

I've battled thrips ever since I introduced soil into the garden. If it's just thrips then I recommend Monterey pest control. The spinocide in that shit will keep the thrips at bay. Sounds like aphids though. Lil miss is an expert on that shit. Peace

 

[Seamaiden]

At this moment, this thread is useless without pix. If MisterUK could put up pix I bet baetween those of us who've battled thrips, mites and root aphids would be able to tell pretty quickly whether it's a pest problem at the root of the issues, or if something else is going on.

Thanks seamaiden, a bit techie for me to follow, laymans terms please.....

The percentage of imidacloprid present in the poison determines how long you have to wait before you can harvest.

 

[lil miss lone]

I appologize I may have jumped the gun calling aphids without pics. YES, Aphids Do cause that bad of damage, and very Very quickly. I think like 10 to 20 dead leaves from the bottom up every day. The two factors (yellow leaves and white bugs) led me to say aphids. However I have never battled nor even seen thrip damage. I also would like to see pics, preferably as follows. Overall plants, pics of lower leaves and stems, and pics of drainholes on your pots. Have you noticed any flyers?

 

[lil miss lone]

at the root of the issues

Was that a pun Sea?? Haha

 

[Seamaiden]

Was that a pun Sea?? Haha

Completely unintentional, but I'll take ownership of it and thankee, ma'am. :)

 

[purpleberry]

Seamaiden I wouldnt use the the % of chemical to judge weather you can use it 30 or 60 days before harvest, The only reason for the lower % in otc is so some dumbass dont spill the the strong shit on them self, so they water it down, the final product you mix will be the same, % on the lable shouldnt matter.

 

[Seamaiden]

Perhaps you wouldn't, purpleberry. Percent on the label absolutely matters because it translates to how much of the active ingredient gets into plant tissues. This may not be true of all compounds, but it is true of imidacloprid.