Yesterday was Day 14, I saw 2 cuts had roots and they were very small single thin strand and not that healthy-looking - and a day later one actually f

PickleRick · Mar 10, 2020

Yesterday was Day 14, I saw 2 cuts had roots and they were very small single thin strand and not that healthy-looking - and a day later one actually fell off so Im down to 1. All of the cuttings aren't slimy or rotten, just no roots, and wilting now with the dome removed for 24 Hours after D14 yesterday.

Cuttings
6 Different strains, 4 cuts each. 24 Sites completely full. I know a few cuts are from plants a few weeks into flowering. I didn't expect these to root, but I didn't have them backed up and wanted to at least try, so I don't lose the genetics (story of my life). But the majority is from healthy plants in veg.

Lights
18/6. Turboklone is set up underneath a 4' fixture of 2x17 watt led 4K tubes. You could say that it is underneath 1/2 of this area at most so 1/2 of 34w is 17W. 4" from tubes. Lumen meter shows 10-12K Lumens.

Resevoir
TAP is 220PPM, added 100ppm of REMO bloom/micro nutrients, adjusted PH to 5.6. No Hormones, as I wanted to keep things simple with what I had here, and I have heard plenty reports of it really not making a difference for many people. Changed RES at Day 7, this time adding a tablespoon of hydrogen peroxide (3% strength). Completely washed out the RES and all parts with soap and vinegar at res change.

Humidity
First 7 days I kept dome on getting 90-100% humidity, taking it off for an hour per day
Day 7-14 I would remove it for 2-3 hours at a time, then put it back on for a couple of hours because they wouldn't stay perky during this time. Yesterday when I saw that they had not rooted well, I decided to take the dome off permanently and see what happens. The picture is 24 hours after.

Temps
Aquarium heater in the Res, connected to a temp Controller, set to 78F and it has a range of 1F, so it stays between 77-79.
The grow room is at 72F (lights on) 68F Lights off. When the dome is on the top area stays warmer so around 74-76 Lights on.

Need to know what do to differently on this next cycle I will be starting in a few days. I have struggled trying to clone for 3 years. I really thought an aero cloner would help me get consistent results, but it looks like my cloning doom cloud has followed me to other systems.
Any suggestions appreciated.

Jimster · Mar 10, 2020

I'm not a regular cloner, but I typically just put the cutting into a small amount of water (or if the cut is a small branch, I just cut on an angle and put it in the water without any additives... getting roots in about 7-10 days. Any time I tried to take cuttings and using nutrients, I failed. I know there are a lot of ways and gizmos to make clones, but as strange as it sounds, I have had my best luck with a small glass of water, changed every few days in a bright, but not full sun, area.
When I first saw your plants, they looked almost cooked from over fertilization... I'm guessing they are just wilted somewhat from lack of roots but I usually don't see that amount of wilting. If I had clones the size that you have, I sometimes just push them about 3 inches or so into the dirt/growing medium (if you aren't using hydro) and give them a good watering... most will grow roots within a week if kept damp. I'm sort of old school, though...

Mr.jiujitsu · Mar 10, 2020

PickleRick said:
Yesterday was Day 14, I saw 2 cuts had roots and they were very small single thin strand and not that healthy-looking - and a day later one actually fell off so Im down to 1. All of the cuttings aren't slimy or rotten, just no roots, and wilting now with the dome removed for 24 Hours after D14 yesterday.

Cuttings
6 Different strains, 4 cuts each. 24 Sites completely full. I know a few cuts are from plants a few weeks into flowering. I didn't expect these to root, but I didn't have them backed up and wanted to at least try, so I don't lose the genetics (story of my life). But the majority is from healthy plants in veg.

Lights
18/6. Turboklone is set up underneath a 4' fixture of 2x17 watt led 4K tubes. You could say that it is underneath 1/2 of this area at most so 1/2 of 34w is 17W. 4" from tubes. Lumen meter shows 10-12K Lumens.

Resevoir
TAP is 220PPM, added 100ppm of REMO bloom/micro nutrients, adjusted PH to 5.6. No Hormones, as I wanted to keep things simple with what I had here, and I have heard plenty reports of it really not making a difference for many people. Changed RES at Day 7, this time adding a tablespoon of hydrogen peroxide (3% strength). Completely washed out the RES and all parts with soap and vinegar at res change.

Humidity
First 7 days I kept dome on getting 90-100% humidity, taking it off for an hour per day
Day 7-14 I would remove it for 2-3 hours at a time, then put it back on for a couple of hours because they wouldn't stay perky during this time. Yesterday when I saw that they had not rooted well, I decided to take the dome off permanently and see what happens. The picture is 24 hours after.

Temps
Aquarium heater in the Res, connected to a temp Controller, set to 78F and it has a range of 1F, so it stays between 77-79.
The grow room is at 72F (lights on) 68F Lights off. When the dome is on the top area stays warmer so around 74-76 Lights on.

Need to know what do to differently on this next cycle I will be starting in a few days. I have struggled trying to clone for 3 years. I really thought an aero cloner would help me get consistent results, but it looks like my cloning doom cloud has followed me to other systems.
Any suggestions appreciated.

Your cuts have way too many leaves to start. These are some cuts dropped in rockwool. I used hormones and a heat pad. I got 100% Success. I live the riot rooters more. I have ised aero cloners and such but now this is how I do, and get the best results..... look at the cuts and then look at yours, you have too much left on for the plants to try and support while developing roots. Also a good rooting hormone is key or even some aloe

Mr.jiujitsu · Mar 10, 2020

Btw I like the turbokloner design does this have the fan that blows in between water and root zone?

PickleRick · Mar 10, 2020

Mr.jiujitsu said:
Btw I like the turbokloner design does this have the fan that blows in between water and root zone?

Yes, it does. I have rockwool cubes, so will do a side by side of both on the next run. Will try a lot smaller cuts with less leaves. I always thought the more the better so there are lots of available reserve nutrients for the cutting to survive. As long as humitiy is high this wouldnt be an issue. But will try smaller cuts When do you remove your dome? Or can I keep it on and they will still root? Maybe Im removing too soon and they get stressed.

Mr.jiujitsu · Mar 10, 2020

I have adjustable dome. I leave on and open ports to allow for high humidity till roots

Mr.jiujitsu · Mar 10, 2020

Have them on a heat mat and run around 78 deg.

PickleRick · Mar 10, 2020

ok I think I was removing dome too soon, worried that things would rot with dome on too long, and I though lower humidty encourages them to root, so thought as long as they don't wilt I should remove dome. Will keep on, and just open vents slowly until I see roots. Will use my heat matt to 78 as well. thanks, I will keep you posted

DreamsOfDiesel · Mar 13, 2020

Only leave top of plant, remove growth below top 1 or 2 nodes, cutting off half of each remaining leaf helps as well to keep drooping to minimum, cut or scrape new clone then dip in clonex & put in jiffy pellet. Used ez cloners too, faster & slightly better success rate but not much difference

PickleRick · Mar 16, 2020

Over the weekend I started the new run, that you guys get to witness and give feedback on all in real time. Any insights or comments are welcome.

I started by cleaning everything with bleach in the bath tub - the trays,the domes, the turbo kloner (ran it with the bleach solution inside for an hour). As well as the scissors, razor blades, cutting board.

I also gave many of these plants I took the cuts from bloom nutrients instead of vegging, so less nitrogen should be in the plant tissue.

The ones I did in Rockwell Cubes I dipped in aloe and then in rooting compound powder. Don't have any other cloning solutions or gels until later this week. Soaked cubes in 5.6 PH/ 220PPM TAP water - no nutrients, this is the mix I made for the Turboklone as well.

These are the Gorilla Bubble Clones. I did a whole tray of these. I did 2 cuttings per cube. So if I get 50% sucess rate, I still get 1 clone per cube. If both root, I just split the cube and transplant into cups with soil. I don't mind the transplant shock, usually if they have roots they will make it and thats all that matters right now.

Seedling Mat Heat Controller set to 77F. This controller has a wider range of almost 2-3F, so this way it goes between 75-80, but mostly stays in the 77 target range.

Heres the other tray. each row front to back is a different strain. I split one cube into 2 halves and then 1 cut per half.

1x17W 4K LED Tube @ 18/6, 10" from tops of clones = 8,000 Lumens

1X 20W 3K LED floodlight 20" From Clones = 6,000 LUMENS, on 18/6.

RES temp is set at 72F, so the range is 71-73, using an aquarium heater attached to thermostat controller. The top temperature is the same 72F with the dome on. Ambient Room temp is 70F lights on, 67 lights off.

Each row of 4 is a different strain, plus 3 Gorilla Bubbles, so can do a side by side comparison to the rockwell cube gorrila bubbles. I only used the powdered hormone, no aloe, as I didn't want the organic matter gunking up the resevoir and causing problems. I have ordered a resevoir hormone concentrate to add and should be here in a few days. I will be buying the ez clone rooting compound, and REMO roots cloning compound tomorrow or day after and will apply it to them again then.

Pics are from yesterday. They look good today. When I go into the veg room everyday I will be removing the covers for 10-20 minutes on all of them to get some air exchange. And maybe 2-3 times everyday when I check on them I will take the dome off and give them a good 10 second fanning/wafting for air exchange. Other than that I will keep the domes on. I honestly think that has been my number one mistake. Thinking lower humidity will encourage root growth so the sooner the better to remove them. But this would just cause them to stress without wilting but simply not putting on any roots. I know some people don't have domes, but it all depends on the environment. in my veg room I have an exhaust fan on high, to keep down the humidity in the veg tent, so there is air movement in the room, and the clones are getting the dryest air @ 45/50 % RH before it goes into the tent and then out. So I think domes are best for me. I won't be doing any misting.

Will check and adjust Turbo Res every 2 days. And will make updates on here every 2 days as well. I spent so much time on this over the weekend, I am giving it my best effort, and hopefully you guys can watch my back and give support, and watch me succeed. If I fail, I will slip into a deep depression, as I won't know what to do differently.

bunkerking · Mar 16, 2020

My best guess is you took a knife to the outer skin of the clone?

Every time i did that, i got results like that.

Try just snipping away the branches, and only making one cut at the bottom.

PickleRick · Mar 16, 2020

bunkerking said:
My best guess is you took a knife to the outer skin of the clone?

Every time i did that, i got results like that.

Try just snipping away the branches, and only making one cut at the bottom.

No, just one 45 degree cut, about half an inch below a node.

PickleRick · Mar 21, 2020

UPDATE

DAY 3
Removed the dome, they were fine without so its been off since then

DAY 5

I changed out the res (washed with vinegar), and applied remo roots cloning gel. Today, Ph was at 6.7, so adjusted back to 5.7. The cloning gel, had also washed off.

So for the last 6 days....

res temps day 72-74F
res temps night 68F
room air temp day 72F
room air temp night 68F
RH 40-60%

ROCKWELL CLONES

Temps steady at 75-78F - I put the temperature probe into a Rockwell cube so this is the target temp for the rootzone, and the dome is at the same temperature I have noticed. Maybe 1-2F lower in the dome than the cube, while the heat mat is on.

Humidity 90% RH - I open the dome a few times a day for maybe a minute to get some air circulation happening.

View attachment 4509930 View attachment 4509931 View attachment 4509934 View attachment 4509933 View attachment 4509932 View attachment 4509942 View attachment 4509943

Ok so if you compare my stems to the Instagram post that I saw with someone who is also using the turboklone, the difference is night and day. I am more than patient, but it looks like there is nothing happening! No bumps or white knots, just the stem, the exact same way it looked on day 1. Starting to get that sinking feeling that this run will be failure again. I don't even want 100% success. I would be jumping with joy with 30%, but 0% run after run after run.

Yeah Im pretty frustrated. Like I only need 1 to root, so that I can flip the mom that Ive been vegging for way to many months because I cant flower her until I have her backed up!

PickleRick · Mar 21, 2020

ru knuts · Mar 21, 2020

I do root riot cubes. Spray the leaves with clone x and superthrive, ph'd water of course. I keep the cubes moist not wet with the same solution. I set the heat mat at 77°, closet temp the same. and cfl 2" above the dome 24/7. I spray the humidity done 2-3 times a day to keep humidity 80+. Leave the dome off a couple hours a day.
Your night time temp of 68° I believe is hold you back.

PickleRick · Mar 21, 2020

ru knuts said:
I do root riot cubes. Spray the leaves with clone x and superthrive, ph'd water of course. I keep the cubes moist not wet with the same solution. I set the heat mat at 77°, closet temp the same. and cfl 2" above the dome 24/7. I spray the humidity done 2-3 times a day to keep humidity 80+. Leave the dome off a couple hours a day.
Your night time temp of 68° I believe is hold you back.

\
Night time temps are for the Turboklone, which is the target area. The domes have heating mats 24/7 set to 78F so they are always between 75-80F all day.

PickleRick · Mar 27, 2020

FINAL UPDATE

DAY 12

TURBO KLONE

the tops look ok, no wilting, no dying, no rotting/mold,
unfortunately, there is not a single root, and so far no knots or bumps.
I will be patient and wait another week to see if something will happen.

ROCKWOOL CUBES

100% MOLD AND ROTTEN STEMS. I think this is due to rockwool being at full water holding capacity. No one has mentioned this is that detrimental. Everyone focused on rooting hormones, lighting, temps, humidity, cleanliness, cutting size. And when it is mentioned it is said often to squeeze them. No that damages the air pocket structure.

Will be using a salad spinner and a scale to achieve a 50% water capacity retention.

I have also decided to have the dome vents completely open in the next run. 100% humidity I think may not be necessary. 80% range is fine maybe?

This is my last post on this thread, for the next and all future attempts I am starting a new thread, that is appropriately titled and introduced as this issue will be ongoing for me obviously more than one or two runs, since Im on run 3 now, and I don't see success anytime soon with my experiences.

P.S. Ive been growing for 3 years, and have rooted 100s of cuttings, I had most success in the first year, so Ive been on a 2 year rut. so will continue switching things up and going back to how I may have done some things previously. Back then, I didn't even have temps dialed in, or the amount of light, used a rusty razor blade. used 0 hormones, didn't check humidity, had a heat matt on full blast 24/7 with no controller! and guys I had all the cuttings I wanted. Amazing roots 7-10 days!!!