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Advanced Lighting Shootout- New 500W Plasma, Plasma+LED, Blackdog LED..

Discussion in 'Advanced Techniques & Problems' started by GoClutch, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. GoClutch


    Howdy fellow Farmers, I'd like to share with you all the results of a lighting experiment I'm conducting in a sealed room with full environmental controls. The strain to be used is Power Plant, the competing fixtures are A)500W Plasma+LED from Chameleon B)BD760 LED from Black Dog C)500W Plasma only from Chameleon D) 600W HPS in Large Adjust-A-Wing hood and E)1000W HPS in Large A-Wing hood.

    The hydroponic system is comprised of 3x3 flood tables holding 3 8x36" Grodan Expert slabs, irrigated from a 25 gal reservoir below running Advanced Nutrients Sensi base and other products. Green Air Products Digital and CAP 4 burner have co2 in check, Quest Dual 155 for the humidification, a 36k btu ac for the temp and off we grow! 012.jpg

    The experimental trays are divided with hanging partitions in order to ensure that sidelight from other trays doesnt interfere with the results, as well as to give the reflective sidewalls. The first and third lights (going left to right in the pic) are 300W Plasmas from Chameleon that are being used to veg, the 500W and 500W+LED will be hung when its bloom time.

    ^The 300W Plasma (Will be 500W Plasma+LED)^

    ^The Black Dog BD-760 LED^

    ^300W Chameleon Plasma (Will be 500W Plasma)^

    ^600W HPS in Large Adjust-A-Wing reflector^

    ^1000W HPS in Large Adjust-A-Wing reflector^

    I'm excited to see how all of these fixtures perform! I will be uploading more specs and close up pics of each of the fixtures and other information soon. The Black Dog LED lends a piercing purplish glare to the room, I cant wait to see how it performs! Also, as far as I know almost nobody has had the opportunity to use these brand new 500w plasmas (or 500w+LED) with cannabis, and measuring their performance against the 600s and 1000s we are familiar with will be revealing. Hell Ive been meaning to answer the 1000 vs 600 question for sure myself for a while anyway. Check it out! Peace
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  2. ZONER


    ZONER here .... Definitely pulling up a chair for this one, this is going to be some good stuff ....:bookworm: .... Takin notes
    GoClutch likes this.
  3. Right on Clutch,

    Next round you need to get the LumiGrow and the Spider in there. They've tested at the top for LED's.
    caveman4.20 and GoClutch like this.
  4. Billyboat

    Billyboat Moderator

    GoClutch likes this.
  5. Yeah I would definitely suggest better fixtures than the Blackdog led and Chameleon 500 watt plasma. The BML horticulture Spydr fixture that was suggested by someone else is a good choice but. Only if you get them to make a custom spectrum that is predominantly white leds with some 630 and 660 nm (or a mix of both) red leds or just all white 2700k and 3000k leds thrown in to the mix. The red/blue spectrum that BML has as a "Grow-Max" ( ) spectrum is old news in the led world in my opinion. Most good led companies are using predominantly white led designs now.

    As for the Chameleon plasma, I would suggest the "Rocket Plasma" ( ) to replace it. The Rocket Plasma has a 3000k spectrum and is specifically made for growing plants. Topanga ( bulb spectrum is not shown on their website look at Rocket Plasma's website for spectrum ) supplies "Rocket Plasma" and Alphalite. The Chameleon plasma is just like the Gavita plasma lights that has been thoroughly tested by Gavita. Luxim ( ) supplies both Chameleon and Gavita with their plasma technology. The lowest color temperature I have seen from Gavita and Chameleon ( without the red leds) is 5600k I believe. Even Gavita doesn't suggest that their plasma lights be used as a stand alone flowering fixture.

    "So in conclusion:
    - We recommend the 01 version as most efficient to complement HPS light during the generative phase and suitable for short vegetative cycles
    - The 02 version is also suitable for a combination with HPS, but has a better quality than the 01 for vegetative development, so it is best utilized in a pure vegetative environment or for sunlight simulations
    - Use one Gavita Pro 300 LEP in combination with a maximum of 1200W HPS lighting for a better color spectrum which results in healthier plants, higher quality and a better yielding crop"

    Rocket Plasma just announced a 470 watt version of their fixture. You will only find photos of it on their Facebook or instagram page at the moment though. They haven't updated their website yet in regards to the 470 watt unit.

    Thanks for setting up a test like this. It is important that these types of tests are done so people can see what works.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
    dirk d likes this.
  6. I have been doing some research on lights prior to my first grow and I must say I am extremely interested in how this turns out.

    I have read up on both the Chameleon and Rocket as well as many of the LED makers as well. Spyder just raised their prices by 50% as I was going to buy 2 of their lights come end of month. The Chameleon is attractive @ $945 for the 500W light w/o the red LEDs. This is the roughly the same price I have seen for the rocket model at only 230W.

    I got my chair and my popcorn for this one.
    Ganja Mystic likes this.
  7. Gyreman


    I'm in!.....way nice test setup GoClutch.....
    Funkadelic likes this.
  8. You got balls to suggest he go buy the best of everything and then do a test for you.
    showmegreen likes this.
  9. Plasma


    Smoke a cone and chill bro.
  10. Gyreman


    ok...I'll jump in...just finishing up my 18k "lab" for experimenting....separate from a large grow op here....setting out to test a few things. Looking at Induction/LED together mixed beside HPS - or maybe the new CMH's mixed beside HPS. Control will be remote gavita's with ushiode/adjustawing. Any other recommendations/requests? will do small trees and a vert bare bulb scrog as well....
    Not trying to change the thread here - just want to add to the mix...still a month out regardless and can start another one....
    Funkadelic likes this.
  11. cool idea.
    how r u controlling for the different wattages between the lights? seems to me u would get obv growth diffs with lights ranging from 500-1000w
    Funkadelic likes this.
  12. Gyreman


    Hi Cap - a pleasure truly - have read most of your posts I suspect by now...

    with the rooms split 9k and 9k - one room will be all hps and the control. I wouldn't try anything but a mixed spectrum at this point - one because it seems pretty clear led and induction etc aren't ready for that yet no matter how much they are fussed over with distances and etc. And I don't want to get rid of the hps either as I need a certain amount of heat here in the PNW. As I tell the guys: "its math math math all the way down"...... gpw, labor hours per gram, etc etc. Mainly trying to keep the e bill for watts and ac down while maintaining yield. The new cmh's have a lot of promise sounds like but at $500 a bulb for the 900w I'll pass on that even in test. If the induction/led combo or the lower watt cmh's in the mix can reduce heat and watts though - and that's interesting to me. Between that and passive chillers and passive ac testing, we're trying to get the e bill down.

    The guys are doing "growing in a cooler" style grows, using all hvac to pull the heat out - which in the current market works. Awesome test results and no bugs....but the inefficiency of the systems is nuts...I don't see it working 4 or 5 years from now. Saw some of the colorado large grows over the weekend - and all that old tech- simple as it is - i don't see holding up long term. It's one thing to toss old tech on a garage grow. Another thing entirely on a 6k s.f. build. I saw one outfit selling their system for 8 million...all set up ready to! More power to em! Simple sog, lots of open air.... killer setup...but don't see the staying power with the inefficiencies of their low gpw and high climate control bills and so on. Personally I suspect greenhouses with lights combo somewhere south of the 45th parrallel is going to win the day long term...wish I was further south.... going to be an interesting ride regardless...
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
    Funkadelic likes this.
  13. lol not cap
    and my question was directed at the op
    sorry 4 any confusion
  14. Gyreman


    don't mind been known to move too fast - and ramble on....

    great q though.... the setups are aiming toward the same goal of course... so my fascination with GoClutch's setup is whether the other setups have some combo of yield/benefit that would justify dropping or modifying the 1000k hps traditional system.... all part of the learning curve..... the led though ...for you to consider...could theoretically be "tuned" to be all 760 watts in the spectrum the plant the 1000k hps may not be putting out as much "useable" spectrum as the led....all "in theory" of course...... ..... I'm no light scientist...and relative to others in the forum on this subject - I'm clueless.... just pointing to directions for consideration/research....
    Funkadelic likes this.
  15. Owlfarm


    Super cool experiment. I'm always curious about the future of growing too. I'm around the 45th parallel and have grown in a greenhouse with supplemental light for maybe five years. It seems like the future, but at the end of every season I always think how much more herb I could get out of the same size indoor building with less work. The electricity costs of indoor suck, but for me the labor cost of greenhouse(especially trimming) far outweighs the electricity bill indoors.
    Since nothing else on earth is grown indoors it would seem logical that it will shift to greenhouse though. You think a bunch of lights in a room with a fan pulling the heat out will be obsolete in five years though? I've talked to a number of consultants and nobody seems to really know... I'm curious what the price per pound will be in five years...
    Sorry to derail your thread, I'm excited to see how the different lights play out. I'm betting on 600 hps!
    Funkadelic likes this.
  16. Tnelz


    Your vision of the future is in and of itself awesome bro. Subbed and can't wait to see where this goes! My brains are on overdrive thinking of which technology to grab and I'm hopeful on a bunch of it. U r doing some testing for us all. Thanks bro!
    Funkadelic and FlyinJStable like this.
  17. going all out on the side by sides nice I like a tinkerer, tried those lights you should check out the quantum flux LED system quad array and throw one of thsoe in on your side by side (you can thank me later), the thing is sick!! and measure 8 inches by 8 inches it puts up with 1ks and can effectively flower a 5x5, it had me sell my gavitas for good. you will pull insane GPW (1-3) and quality through the roof only pulls 300 watts from the plug but delivers the watts better than other lights because of the systems cooling abilities, they make the lights right in the PNW USA. I will get a log up here soon, its the newest grow light I heard of.. goodluck with your test my money is on the high wattage LED (because LED will always grow the best pot PERIOD) depending what wavelengths they put in it and if it can keep itself cool (LED do horrible in high temps 90+). im subbed.
    Funkadelic likes this.
  18. Since you're sealing the room you should factor electricity usage from your 36kbtu aircon into any g/w efficiencies.

    It's a real pity each room doesn't have it's own aircon so you could factor in for each light.

    Should be interesting to see your results.

    I dispute LED's will grow the best pot I found the pot from bridgelux led's to be no better than HPS grown pot and slightly worse than MH grown.

    2g/w with HPS is pretty average when growing vertically so this should be the yardstick for led's, LEP's, etc to beat NOT g/w.

    If you ever need to run a heater during lights on then that HPS starts to look a lot lot more efficient for you.

    In a sealed room obviously heat is an enemy not a friend but of course only a small percentage of us co2 and seal our rooms.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2014
    Funkadelic and Andy Genesis like this.
  19. Yup, gonna watch this. I very much want to believe LED's have arrived... This "research design" seems comparable to about any (preliminary) academic/professional research.... good stuff maynard!
    Funkadelic likes this.
  20. Coir


    I have yet to see an LED perform up to the hype they are getting. The few that have produced some decent quality were using the same amount of power as other light sources at a much higher cost to purchase. Where is the benefit in that?