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High-yield Recipe Critique

Discussion in 'Nutrients and Fertilizers' started by GreenDumb, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. I recently 'inherited' an established rockwool grow. They have a specific recipe and I have no experience with half the products or using organics in hydro. I'm thinking half their ingredients are useless. The goal is 3 a light, under Gavitas, co2 (800ppm start of flower cranked up to 1300ppm by end), temperature is 72-76F during ,lights on with a drop to 68-70F during 'night'.

    I have a slightly different technique in growing, but just wanted some insight on any familiar with these products.

    Super Nutrients A+B
    cal mag+
    pro-tekt silica

    bud blood
    big bud
    bud candy

    They also innoculate the rockwool with great white powder and use 'teas' brewed with powdered bacteria, ewc and molasses

    Everything is hand watered every other day. Personally, I'd like to cut out all the 'organics' besides hygrozyme(not sure if its 'organic') and cut out the teas and innoculation. I also do not like using phosphoload or gravity due to toxicity.

    Would love to hear some insights on this list as well as your own high-yield recipes. I believe in keeping it simple and this regimine seems a bit overkill. Results are erratic with results as high as 3.1lb per light with glues and more recently as low as 1.5 per light with exotics.
    Quantrill and hawkman like this.
  2. hawkman


    wow !!! Good "Mycorrhizae" (great White) for root ball/spider root development - also check out "soil Balance" great for pant and terpene development. Have used all of them in specific stages of growth - Terpinator has a bit of "arseniec" in it. if you want an organic simmular to Terpinator look at Deep Breath and G10 they are organic why cutting organic's for larger yields ? Yes a bit overkill
  3. Appreciate the reply. Those seem like great products. The reason I'm considering cutting organics is because the medium is rockwool and they recirculate the nutes and use them for a week straight instead of drain to waste. I've also heard anecdotally that the beneficial organisms die when combined with high-strength synthetic nutes in a hydro set up. Is this true?

    I'm in the midst of setting up a second large facility with drain to waste and drippers and feel like any organics would clog the lines. Not sure what the current 'trendy' recipes are I just have experience with what i use (basic AN sensi A+B, big bud, overdrive, bud candy, drip clean and random bloom stimulators). I like to keep things simple, but now my priorities are changing to provide max yield.
    hawkman likes this.
  4. I would keep my overnight temps higher and lower more towards the end
  5. That's how I learned, too. I was taught high 70s during the day to keep the stoma 'open' for better co2 absorbtion.

    What would your target temps be? Thanks again
    CaliRooted likes this.
  6. My lights off temp is 73-76
    My lights on temp 75-79 Co2 enrichment all tho I do believe the sweet spot is about 82-83 with Co2 however my plants are happier with the upper 70s
    MidwestToker and PharmHand like this.
  7. hawkman


    you are correct - one shouldn't mix "chemical" & "organic" nutrients together - consider only using a few for weekly feeding most of the additives you mentioned are only used a few week in flower (because you have early, middle and late flower)(specific nutrients in each stage) using "hygrozyme" really helps in over-all development and increased nutrient up-take but that should be used 1-2 x's a week not every watering. Do you know what/when to use those specific nutrients in flower . Consider only using big bud, bud blood, B-52 in flower stage (specific) Terpinator only in flower no veg as the same with molasses - these should be based around your A & B nutrients + silica
    Jack og likes this.
  8. Thanks. I have a pretty good idea when to use said additives. If it were up to me I'd cut that list in half TBH and go with pretty much only the nutes you stated plus a sweetener. Since I'm in rockwool I'm trying to cut out molasses completely and replace with something cleaner like bud candy. I hate wasting $$$ on OG Biowar tea powders and great white just to have all the bennies die from the synthetic nutes.

    Unfortunately, the recipe I stated is what the directors demand we use and I'm kinda SOL on changing anything. I'm about to 'inherit' another facility where I'm going to get quite a bit more say in nutrient regimen. Facility A we have to hand-water EVERYTHING in rockwool while using that strict mix, Facility B is rockwool too but will be drip fed and I'll have more say in the nutrient regimen. Definitely don't want to try any teas or molasses in drip lines.
    hawkman likes this.
  9. hawkman


    well good luck on your endever - sounds like you have your hands full - your correct about cutting the molasses, ect Hey ! keep us posted PEACE
  10. Thanks. Will do. I'll start a seperate grow log once I get going.
  11. Holy shit I just threw up looking at that laundry list of bullshit.

    If you were a man you'd tell your boss to scrap that scammer grade poison. I find out your outfit sold me some Gravity bud, I've got a reason to beat your ass. You wanna be a part of that? Modern day natural selection, you poison me I beat your ass. Everyone else on this site is too big of a pussy to speak up and help bury this scammer bullshit in the past where it belongs.
    hawkman likes this.
  12. Dude I feel you. Without going into too much detail I'm leaving one company for another that follows my state's laws which means no toxic BS. When I say 'inherited' it means I've come aboard after the facility is up and running. That recipe, set up and regimen are far from what I'd do personally.

    I didn't go full on mutiny since I have bills to pay, but I definitely let my bosses know that they shouldn't use half that crap or do a lot of things they do. I'm surprised my bosses (now old bosses) could even get phosphoload in CA. What's worse was they'd have us use this specific 'recipe' regardless of strain or results. Sometimes we could hit over 3# a light other times it was barely 1.5# and they wouldn't allow any changes. Toxic environment on multiple levels.

    If you buy licensed meds, don't worry, you won't be coming into contact with any of my old work's stuff. One of the biggest reasons I'm a proponent of regulation; I believe anything anyone ingests needs to be held to specific standards.
    hawkman likes this.
  13. hawkman


    how true GreenThumb - how many plants are you going to grow, - what time of harvest : every week, once a month, ect It take a lot to get in the business, money, time, knowledge, ect are you a "master Grower" ? The regulations are a very big factor in a sucessful business (they can make or break a start-up. Keep us informed about your endevor. wish you the best in your business
  14. Luckily I am more in a management position than investor or owner. The facility I'm coming from had 5 flowering rooms, 540 plants in flower at any given moment, ~300 plants in veg not including approximately 200 clones and a handful of mother's. Harvests were weekly or bi weekly due to the odd amount of rooms. The new facility is in it's infant stages and I can't give the final specs yet.

    I do not like the term 'master grower' as it sounds like a Jedi knight or something magical. But, I can get good results (2.5-3.5 per DE fixture), know many hydro nutrient recipes/techniques, co2 regimens, familiar with all the equipment and how to maintain it and I can troubleshoot problems. I am human though and have produced less than stellar results on occasion. Things happen, equipment breaks, etc. I have over 10 years on this side of the industry and have seen a lot. I asked the question about that horrible nute list as kind of a validation for leaving my previous employer.

    How would you define a master grower?
    hawkman likes this.
  15. hawkman


    hey 0 GreenDumd : are are some very informaive publucation that sre available " if you sign up for thei mail . you get monthy publication which are high quality which cover, regualtions, cutluvation, and much more even investing + dispensary Here they are . Marijuana Business Magazine &Cannabis Dispensary. If I was in were position I would Defintely get these on a monthly basis> hey cover the "whole" thing and written by Profssionals - hope you give them a look !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Peace and you are right about the "master Grower' sorry. would really like to PM you about some nutrient questions, ect ?
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  16. Thanks for the info. Shoot me any questions you have and I will answer the best I can
    hawkman likes this.
  17. What kind of rockwool? Loose? Cause watering every other day doesn't sound feasible at all. Organics work in rockwool if you want to go through all of it. That is like a fruit punch of nutes and money tho. Overdrive, Phosphoload, and Big Bud are all pretty much the same thing (MPK) with some added N in one and some added Mg in the other. Bud blood is just K and Mg. Kind of redundant when using Calmg on top of that which is N, Ca, Mg. That alone should tell you about the choices they made when picking those nutes. Spec when you see gravity in their setup. That's five you could throw directly out off the bat and not replace or replace with 1 thing.

    The only thing about organics (if you could call it organics, its basically synth with 1 or 2 organic adds) and rockwool is if something goes bad in they system you are having to kill all the beneficial in the system to cure it usually. That means you are throwing all that money down the drain. You can do it, and it works, but if you get something like root rot kiss it goodbye, spec with recircing them. That setup seems like a 2 light home grow scaled up into something.

    My best suggestion is don't try and reinvent the wheel when it comes to rockwool. They have been using that medium for decades with proven methods in large multi arce glass houses. Lots of people with PH'd and lots of tried and true methods have been developed out of that. Use that to your advantage. People before you have made all the expensive mistakes. The weed grows have some good info on it but if you really want the really good info look to the other markets with a crazy amount of research. With that being said I would scrap everything on that list and start from scratch.

    If you are running drippers in a large scale make your life easier and sell them on dosers. Master grower is kind of a joke to the industry insiders. Most people who use that term copied someones formula and have 0 clue on the breakdown or how it actually works and couldn't do their own shit from scratch if their life depended on it. It's what inexperienced growers use to pad their resume once they takeover a tuned grow and just run the same thing over the years without any changes.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
    MirrorZen and Quantrill like this.
  18. My thoughts exactly on the mix. They were using 6" blocks sitting on slabs. The people I grew for (now officially done with) were definitely the self-proclaimed 'master growers' that paid a bunch of money for a set-up and 'recipe' and had no idea when it came to growing basics.

    The only same products I'd use in a DTW system would be big bud, overdrive and bud candy(it's cheap). I prefer a mostly(completely?) sanitary medium in rockwool kept at a constant moisture level; not wet, not dry. I prefer blocks but will have to go with whatever budget allows. Oh the joys of working for someone else....

    For anyone that hasn't used a doser, it is definitely a Godsend in any application where you have a lot of sitting nutrient solution between feedings.

    Your take on the term 'master grower' is spot-on. I always think of Jedi Master and it makes me laugh. I've been doing this ~10years and there isn't a (serious) grower I can't still learn from.
    cemchris likes this.
  19. Same man. Even after 18 years I still learn new stuff every year I'm at it. Very humbling.
    GreenDumb likes this.
  20. hawkman


    it's all way good to learn new stuff !!!!!