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Innov8tr
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I'm new here but have been growing for almost a decade now. I have used dirt for most of the these years because I hadn't had much luck with hydro. I tried it in the very beginning but didn't know what I was doing I wasn't very successful. I switched to dirt and never looked back. I partnered wit a friend on a grow about 5 years ago in the building that I'm now. He was all hydro and encouraged me to try it...grodan flood and drain. I had about 3 harvest of really shitty plants due to pythium and we gave up and went to dirt. We were using well water with a massive filtration system on it and it had a chlorinator, water was awesome. I really didn't think it was the water that was giving us problems, we thought that maybe there was lots of pythium spores in the area we were growing in...no problems at all in dirt. So years later (Oct last year) I was convinced by a friend to try hydro one last time. I got a 6 site XL UC, put (2) 1000 lights over it and (4) 250 watts around it. My first harvest I lost to pythium but I didn't realize what had happened until later. I was using H&G at the time and blamed the nutrients because the plants looked deficient. I cleaned the system with a little bleach and fired it up for another round. Two weeks in to flower these plants took a shit too. Finally I realized that pythium was the problem but these plants were too far gone to save. I added a badass UV light to the system but since the roots were already colonized it did nothing. I talked with Dan at CC and he thought that maybe it was colonizing inside the clone machine and I was transferring the infection to my disinfected UC system. I read that the CDC recommends 10% bleach to 90% water for total disinfection. I put 7 gallons in my UC and a gallon in my clone machine before restarting to make sure that any pythium would be killed. Through veg they seem fine but right before flowering....again pythium. So I really started doing my homework and I wanted to share with others what I found. I saved these plants and they turned out to be beasts.
After reading about pythium I came to the conclusion it was from the well water that I'm using. I read that levels were usually high in well water and that sometimes the levels were extremely high. My city water is also well water but its taken from 750' where my well is only at half that, not sure if that matters. Also I knew of another gardener not far from here using shallow well water with the same problem...he started having city water delivered and the problem went away. I do have a chlorinator on the well but if the levels aren't high enough the pythium can and will still live in the water. Pythium does exist in city water too but usually at low levels and used with healthy plants can never colonize and usually isn't a problem until the plant is stressed (heat, low water levels, etc), then it rears its ugly head. That can happen to anyone! If you get pytium all is not lost, you can win the war! Ok here is what I tried...
Large UV on my UC. I bought a sterilght 6 GPM commercial grade UV and put in my return line. I wanted to use this as a preventative but this didn't do any good because the pythium has already colonized the roots...and I wasn't sure if the UV could break down my nutes making my problem worse.
I tried frequent water changes until it dawned on me it was in the water....didn't do any good because I just reintriduced the pythium.
At this time I discovered there was (2) products that I could add to sterilize the system...pythoff and zone. I read about pythoff and its basically chloramine, I read up on zone and its active ingredients were copper and sulfur (I read that someone said it has chloramine but I'm not so sure of that, I could be wrong though). I know that chloramine at the right levels can kill anything so I went and purchased some at my grow shop. I followed the instructions and dosed the highest amount everyday like it suggested for a "stressed system". My plants contiunued to decline. I found out that there was a test kit for pythoff to make sure the levels were high enough to make it work, I ordered it. Once I was able to test it I realized that even at the highest dosage the levels weren't high enough. I ended up using 1.5x's the recommended dosage to get the levels up high enough. My UC would have a strong bleach smell and within 12 hrs it was almost all dissapated. I would have to dose it 2x's a day to keep the levels up high enough. Plants immediately turned around but adding pythoff twice a day was a PITA and expensive. I went and got some zone on recommendation from CC, I took out my plants and washed the roots with high pressure water and mud came off of them, really nasty shit (see pic below). I added pythoff and zone to fresh nutrient water and within 2 weeks the plants are almost 4' tall and you can even tell anything was wrong with them. New white roots shot out of everywhere and are filling the buckets. I was about to throw in the towel and forever walk away from hydro but now I'm really glad I didn't. The plants are growing so fast now and are so healthy...I love it!
If pythium is a problem for you, here are my suggestions. These may seem extreme but I can't take any chances.
1) Bought a hydrologic inline UV light for my RO machine, its on the fill line for my reservoir. This should kill all pythium in the incoming water which alone is probably enough.
2) Just in case I dose my water change res a couple of days before I change it, I use it 1.5x strength of pythoff. I give it a couple of days to disapate out of the water before I put it in the system. This way I can briefly add bacteria in the water without killing them.
3) I mix my nutes in the res and then fill my UC system. I add any beneficals that I want (roots excel right now) and wait a 2 days for it to works its magic...then drop the pythoff bomb to wipe out everything alive and then I add zone once until the next water change. I change the water once every 10 days and I usually add another pythoff bomb after about 4 days.
I believe that the UV on the incoming water line is the most important piece to the puzzle. Problem is that if pythium makes it past the UV then you need products like zone and pythoff to combat that. After I get a couple of successful harvests under my belt I will try to use just the sterilized water and beneficials instead of a sterile system. If it works and my yields are the same it is much easier I think to just run a sterile system...less worrying. I'm just not sure if a sterile system will produce as much or not (assuming that neither system had pythium)
If anyone has any suggestions or anything to add please do. This is simply how I defeated pythium. I brought my plants back from the dead, even Dan at CC thought they should be thrashed and I'm glad I didn't. The recovery was quicker than I imagined.
Pic of my infected roots, will post pics of the plants and new roots later today...want to get some current shots.
After reading about pythium I came to the conclusion it was from the well water that I'm using. I read that levels were usually high in well water and that sometimes the levels were extremely high. My city water is also well water but its taken from 750' where my well is only at half that, not sure if that matters. Also I knew of another gardener not far from here using shallow well water with the same problem...he started having city water delivered and the problem went away. I do have a chlorinator on the well but if the levels aren't high enough the pythium can and will still live in the water. Pythium does exist in city water too but usually at low levels and used with healthy plants can never colonize and usually isn't a problem until the plant is stressed (heat, low water levels, etc), then it rears its ugly head. That can happen to anyone! If you get pytium all is not lost, you can win the war! Ok here is what I tried...
Large UV on my UC. I bought a sterilght 6 GPM commercial grade UV and put in my return line. I wanted to use this as a preventative but this didn't do any good because the pythium has already colonized the roots...and I wasn't sure if the UV could break down my nutes making my problem worse.
I tried frequent water changes until it dawned on me it was in the water....didn't do any good because I just reintriduced the pythium.
At this time I discovered there was (2) products that I could add to sterilize the system...pythoff and zone. I read about pythoff and its basically chloramine, I read up on zone and its active ingredients were copper and sulfur (I read that someone said it has chloramine but I'm not so sure of that, I could be wrong though). I know that chloramine at the right levels can kill anything so I went and purchased some at my grow shop. I followed the instructions and dosed the highest amount everyday like it suggested for a "stressed system". My plants contiunued to decline. I found out that there was a test kit for pythoff to make sure the levels were high enough to make it work, I ordered it. Once I was able to test it I realized that even at the highest dosage the levels weren't high enough. I ended up using 1.5x's the recommended dosage to get the levels up high enough. My UC would have a strong bleach smell and within 12 hrs it was almost all dissapated. I would have to dose it 2x's a day to keep the levels up high enough. Plants immediately turned around but adding pythoff twice a day was a PITA and expensive. I went and got some zone on recommendation from CC, I took out my plants and washed the roots with high pressure water and mud came off of them, really nasty shit (see pic below). I added pythoff and zone to fresh nutrient water and within 2 weeks the plants are almost 4' tall and you can even tell anything was wrong with them. New white roots shot out of everywhere and are filling the buckets. I was about to throw in the towel and forever walk away from hydro but now I'm really glad I didn't. The plants are growing so fast now and are so healthy...I love it!
If pythium is a problem for you, here are my suggestions. These may seem extreme but I can't take any chances.
1) Bought a hydrologic inline UV light for my RO machine, its on the fill line for my reservoir. This should kill all pythium in the incoming water which alone is probably enough.
2) Just in case I dose my water change res a couple of days before I change it, I use it 1.5x strength of pythoff. I give it a couple of days to disapate out of the water before I put it in the system. This way I can briefly add bacteria in the water without killing them.
3) I mix my nutes in the res and then fill my UC system. I add any beneficals that I want (roots excel right now) and wait a 2 days for it to works its magic...then drop the pythoff bomb to wipe out everything alive and then I add zone once until the next water change. I change the water once every 10 days and I usually add another pythoff bomb after about 4 days.
I believe that the UV on the incoming water line is the most important piece to the puzzle. Problem is that if pythium makes it past the UV then you need products like zone and pythoff to combat that. After I get a couple of successful harvests under my belt I will try to use just the sterilized water and beneficials instead of a sterile system. If it works and my yields are the same it is much easier I think to just run a sterile system...less worrying. I'm just not sure if a sterile system will produce as much or not (assuming that neither system had pythium)
If anyone has any suggestions or anything to add please do. This is simply how I defeated pythium. I brought my plants back from the dead, even Dan at CC thought they should be thrashed and I'm glad I didn't. The recovery was quicker than I imagined.
Pic of my infected roots, will post pics of the plants and new roots later today...want to get some current shots.
