Humic, Fulvic, or Both?

  • Thread starter JayBee
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
JayBee

JayBee

International Toker
Supporter
744
28
I hear so much about humic and fulvic additives and from what I understand fulvic is a refined humic. But i see both sold and would lke your feedback on both or either? Especially for hydro or soiless. Thanks!
 
phenotyper

phenotyper

851
63
Well, fulvic acid is basically the liquid suspension of the humates present in soil. So think fulvic, water soluble, and humic, goes in soil for other organisms to break down. Personally, I use FulPower, which is an organic concentrated fulvic acid compound and I cannot recommend it enough (versus other products like diamond nectar, or fulmag).
 
TrichromeFan

TrichromeFan

1,850
83
Hey ML, you use ful-power as a treat or in the regular feed? Which stages? I have been giving it to all stages as a treat. Maybe once a week, with some molasses too.

=
-TF
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
I use it about 1-2 times a week

its potent stuff - I never go over 10ml/gal
 
S

sfzoo

636
18
Interesting thread.

I've been researching recently to add Humics to my regimen.


mother, what happens if the concentration is too high? burn?
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
from what I understand it can burn them - havent seen this myself - just been going with the low dose

I think leadsled said he was using 15ml/gal without any issues

it just depends on how hard you push the main nutes
 
motherlode

motherlode

@Rolln_J
Supporter
5,524
313
I was using the fulpower and amino ade with some molasses as a top feed every 3-4 days - they didnt get base nutes those days - those were my "water days"

I hardly ever just use water - I like to boost that way too so I have more control then if I just add a bunch of stuff to the res - just in case some of the plants find the boost too hot

my current run is hand water - fresh mixes every time
 
mastacheeser

mastacheeser

2,126
263
gods thread made me unhappy with my fulpower, was about to start messing around with other stuff

alot of the advanced nutrients stuff is humic/fulvic loaded, but hate their price tag. alot of people seem to love the bud candy/carboload combo. i assume for the humic/fulic in carboload and the aminos in the bc

im just jumping back on the drain to waste bandwagon myself, def going to be setting up a non recirc watering system sometime tho, my back is pissed
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
If you look around you can buy 70% fulvic powder for less then 8 bucks a lb. Dirt cheap JK
I buy my humates in mexico and I use that to charge my chow mix when I make it, mainly because that is what I always have done and seems to work better for me.
 
G

geoduck

37
0
FULVIC ACID == HUMIC ACID

fulvic acid is a derivative of organic humates, therefore fulvic acid is a special kind of humic acid.
and this is precisely the reason many states do not recognize 'fulvic acid' as a separate agricultural product. as far as lawbooks are concerned, humic acids include fulvic acid.

darker colored humic acid is for soil and soil less applications, and lighter colored fulvic is better for hydro applications
 
E

el boyo

229
43
how often and long into flowering are people using humic/fulvic? I have just been buying them solo off ebay for pretty cheap and adding 1-2Tbs per 45gl res. doing dtw coco beds. was wondering if it cool to add weekly up to flush..
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
Fulvic Acids differ from humic acids in that they are of generally lower molecular weight, and they are more oxygenated. As said above they are "humic derivatives" though that term should be approached with some caution if we're to speak on the matter in a technical fashion.

Humic acid is *not* a molecule or compound, but rather a class of compounds which contains many different species. Appropriately it is difficult to make a cost/benefit analysis of humics/fulvics as a whole, and we must instead assay the utility of a particular product--or a specific mixture of humic/fulvic acids.

The short answer is that both of these, although much the same, are bound to have their own pro's and cons to a growing plant's environment--much as the various different species of each type will have various pros or cons. This is a hard question to answer specifically--I think the best answer on this one is probably something of a less scientific nature--let your plants tell you.

Until science fully catches up on this one and can link all the various pathways together it's probably best to just get some experience playing around with them.

Humics and Fulvics do have very different chemical activity--even if the physical job they perform is similar, due to their chemical difference they will do them differently.

For anyone wondering, Humates and fumates can create colloids with nutrients (and themselves) which are, strangely in my opinion, able to easily transverse a cell membrane.
 
E

el boyo

229
43
so are you saying they are ok to use together, or should they be used separately? or only use 1? is there a danger in using them too frequently? is one better to use than the other? i have been noticing an amazing increase in health and vigor when i apply them. just do not want to hurt them. mainly wondering about application rates..
thanks bro
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
^ have you noticed that you're feeding less w/ the humics? due to the increased availablity.

I've actually heard mostly the opposite--because the uptake mediated by humics and fulvics is a bit different than normal uptake from a straight chemical fertilizer it may be using a bit of a "loop-hole" to get around some of the nute burn issues which can arise from overfeeding.

I haven't the foggiest how that might work or play out--and I have not used these myself. This is just second-hand knowledge.

@el boyo

Can't help you with the application rates--I would pester some of the organic dudes, they'd be my first stop.

They should be fine together--it is my understanding that humics and fulvics are actually very stable substances and resist degradation pretty damn strongly. That humics and fulvics can be separated from the same compost sample would seem to indicate that they can coexist with one another.

Think of it this way--these are the things that stabilize at the end of every biological pathway. It's basically fully broken down dead stuff. Living things extract chemical energy mostly by oxidative processes to yield lower energy compounds rather than high energy ones. This is essentially a progression from higher energy to lower energy states, with "stability" correlating to increasingly lower energy states. In a sentence, when biology is done with this stuff it's left in a very unreactive state--if it weren't, some type of life would've found a way to turn it into something else before it's ultimate release.

If you know anything about nuclear chemistry or physics, you'll know that many things degrade in to lead + something else.

The reason lead is so ubiquitous is that it's very very very stable and doesn't like to degrade at all. When nuclei are splitting--lead is one of the most "thermodynamically favorable" states for a daughter nuclei to take on, and so it does in mass quantities.
 
squarepusher

squarepusher

959
43
Kelp4less on ebay has great deals on humics and fulvics (and kelp by happenstance) =p
 
S

shavits

336
63
Can I use humic acids on seedlings without any issues? Say I use a really mild solution of water and humic acid to get them going nicely?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
I'm very interested in how humics and fulvics might work in an RDWC environment. Does anyone have some insight here?
 
squiggly

squiggly

3,277
263
I'm going to assume they'll work the same way as anywhere. By forming a colloidal nutrient mixture which can easily bypass the membrane (for some reason I can't wrap my head around just yet). In a word--they should help.

If they don't, I can't think of any harm it could do (except to your pocketbook).

I smell a side-by-side in your future. Or maybe it's just that super cat-pissy stuff I got sitting across the room. Shit reeks.
 
Top Bottom