Kens Gdp Revival By Malamus

[malamus]

It's getting around harvest time for the first round of testers, so I figured I should start posting everything bit by bit, updating as I go.

I'm currently working on a project to preserve in seed form the genetics of one particularly delicious sample of Ken's GDP. GDP takes the favorite strain slot for night time for me, and since trying it many moons ago and growing and losing the local CO cut it was my goal to get a hold of the genetics again. My goal is to achieve a viable BX1, which will be used for breeding out the GDP traits I'm interested in (smell, high, color) into F1s and inbreeding into a stable GDP line. After lots of research I don't think multiple backcrosses would be helpful for preserving genes, especially as the GDP itself is not so stable if one were to go off of any of the billion origin stories.

Granddaddy Purple released the GDP seed line, and in 2013 I took the plunge and ordered a 10 pack. Unfortunately due to a bad batch of rockwool only 2/10 germed, both males. Of the two one was green and not noteworthy in any way, while another was consistently darker in veg and just reeked of the most absolutely perfumed fruity funk.

I junked the green guy, and flowered the purple GDP. It performed beyond all expectations, making it through the nastiest mite infection I've had to deal with. Scorched earth ended up being the mite solution - never import foreign clones again. Unfortunately when I tried to reveg the stress and continued mite stress caused him to die one day.

He is remembered in photo form:

Before he gave up ghost I gathered up quite the amount of pollen, and crossed him with all of my females that were at that time in flower. The females crossed with during that round:

Sour Romulan (local CO IBL, S1 from Trill Alternatives)
Blue Cheese (Blue Dream x Cheese F1 freebee)
DP Strawberry Cough, Sativa hazy Pheno
DP Strawberry Cough, Indica fruity Pheno
Northern Lights freebie
DP Mazar funky skunk pheno

Most of the females can be found online for looks except the blue cheese which was too ravaged by mites to have any idea of what it should have looked like. The only female from the original batch I'm uploading photos for is the Sour Romulan, which for me takes favorite strain for daytime. It is another project of mine to inbreed the Sour Rom x GDP to get my perfect strain. I originally had ~10 seeds, all 9 so far grown turned out exactly the same except one which very strongly expressed male and was chucked, here she is in her original thick waisted sativa IBL form:



The first round of crossing gave me six hopefully awesome strains to work with. My idea behind the varied crossings was to try to quickly expose as many of the GDP traits as possible. I don't have the space to flower huge numbers so I have to try alternate ways of identifying how his genes mix and match. I'm familiar with most of the female growth patterns so I'm confident I can suss out the GDP traits in the progeny.

I'm currently wrapping up flowering the first round of progeny, Sour Romulan x GDP. I still had 3 vials left of GDP pollen, and decided to crack one since the plants in this round were worthy. Plants given the guy this time:

Sour Rom x GDP, romulan pheno - structured like the Sour Rom with GDP perfumed funk, denser buds and light purpling

Sour Rom x GDP, GDP pheno - dead ringer for a cali purple plant. by far the shortest and lowest yielding of this tent round. purple and pure sweet funk smell

Mystery Sativa (durban x Island Sweet Skunk) - sativa structure with delicious baked cherry licorice smell. wanted to see how the gdp funk mixed with savory fruity instead of sweet fruity like with the strawberry cough.

Maple Leaf (Trill Alternatives S1) - I assumed this was sensi seeds maple leaf. I have never worked with a plant so adamantly indica. Literally 0 smell throughout veg, which developed into a light sweet vanilla and then a heavy pure hash scent later into flowering. This was my first grow out of it, and I can tell that while it might not make the best meds it might have good breeding potential due to the hardy genetics.

I have some clean up to do and photo organization, and then will be uploading more photos of the male and the first round of progeny, which are beginning week 7 of flowering. Until then enjoy the teaser shots of the male and sour rom mom until I get a full gallery up.

 

[GrowGod]

Looks good,so did you start this from the kens gap cut or an s1 of kens gdp?

 

[malamus]

@GrowGod I started from seeds that are no longer available. Veeery long story short the seeds were developed by the Granddaddy Purp Collective, headed by Ken Estes. The story goes that he started the collective a few years back as a response to all of the people trying to use his GDP cut for breeding. He is the supposed originator of the "ken's cut" GDP, which is the GDP I know and love. Other cuts I'm aware of are the Royal (supposed sister) and Gross Domestic Product, the supposed original.

I do not believe that he S1'd the Ken's cut for these seeds...grow results are too variable yet traits seem to carry through breeding wise. My belief is that his GDP is an F1 of his cali purps native american plant x with a fast flowering skunk. That would make sense with the smell, variability, and sativa leaning look with indica stone. It would also be why the run of seeds that mine came from has the Ken's cut as only one of many possible phenos, there are even some phenos that look better than the cut. I wish my male had a corresponding female, would have certainly competed with the cut.

 

[malamus]

@Andy Genesis thanks for the info, some extra perspective always helps. I have grown the local CO GDP cut as a starter reference, and have sampled a many dispensary GDP, my male beats all in the scent department, just need to verify the smoke in a few weeks :)

As for the purps battles I really think it all boils down to personal preference at the end. I've also grown out the local CO purple kush which was crossed to my gdp by a friend, and some TGA Querkle and really they're almost all the same save for some throw of the dice differences. It just depends on what was grown when under what conditions. I have a purely urkle dominant slow as molasses Querkle S1 growing that if female is going to smash anything Trill ever put out,which is where I got it from.

Also for the record I'm not trying to reproduce a clone, I'm simply trying to preserve the genetics of my male in seed form so that I can use it more freely in breeding. Hard to do much breeding when your male only exists in 2 vials in the freezer :(

 

[malamus]

Doo dee doo...still chugging along with the project, getting there now. I'm currently testing the first round of back crosses, having crossed my GDP male to the GDP pheno of a Sour Rom IBL x GDP F1. Fingers crossed as it's going to probably take the rest of the year to verify results due to my small setup, but so far I'm seeing definite GDP phenotypes in all Bx1 seeds. My goal now is to get a few amazing phenos from this batch to make Bx2, after which it'll be time to roll em up and get the IBL I'm aiming for.

Next on tap for testing: Dutch Passion Strawberry Cough x GDP F1. Yum! two plants currently flowering with two phenos, one that smells dead on like a ripe strawberry guava and one that smells like a funky bowl of fruit salad made by someone with a strawberry fetish.

In the meantime, enjoy some bud shots of some discovered Sour Rom IBL x GDP F1 phenos that I found during my recent work.

Sour Rom IBL x GDP F1, Rom Pheno, working name Cobalt:



Sour Rom IBL x GDP F1, Mixed Pheno, working name Fifty:


Sour Rom IBL x GDP F1, GDP Pheno, working name Grand Dent:

 

[mauiinfinity]

beautiful!~

 

[zeke]

For fucks sake, Ken fucking Estes did not create the GDP! Dude just made some seeds with the cut. And they weren't that good.

 

[malamus]

For fucks sake, Ken fucking Estes did not create the GDP! Dude just made some seeds with the cut. And they weren't that good.

for those with reading comprehension issues:

I give 0 fucks about other GDP or how Ken came to acquire his, this thread is about the REVIVAL of MY male from KENS GDP SEED LINE, I don't care about clone only versions, other GDP strains, purps, grape ape, purple urkel out whatever the fuck ppl are calling OTHER purple strains, because THEY'RE NOT MY STRAIN.

I already gave my opinion as to the origins to head off the stupid comments that would follow.

Since ppl apparently can't read, I'll state them again:

I DON'T BELIEVE KENS ORIGIN STORIES, FROM OBSERVED VARIATION AND NOTES FROM MY PERSONAL BREEDING I BELIEVE IT IS AN F1 OR SLIGHTLY MORE INBRED HYBRID OF A PURPLE FUCKING PLANT WITH A FAST FLOWERING SKUNK, nothing more nothing less

unless you are Ken or was on his jock back in the days as hard as you are now, nobody knows shit about his GDP origins, and pretending you do without anything to show for it will put you in the same group of dumbasses whose comments I had to skip over while spending weeks researching GDP and its origins

 

[420circuit]

Looking forward to seeing how this great project proceeds. Have you found any crosses that do not work, that produce hermies? I am interested in breeding some crosses, but am seeing certain strains that just do not work well with others, Chem for example, seems to have a lot of issues reported when used to cross. I have not run GDP yet, but plan to soon, and think that this thread would be an excellent place to learn about this strain. Thank you for sharing your work.

 

[420circuit]

GDP looks like a strain that could have good pain control effects, but tough for daytime because of the sleepy thing, so your crosses could be the answer. Excellent ideas, rock on! :D

 

[malamus]

@420circuit no bad crosses yet, although I've only taken the Sour Rom and Strawberry Cough ones and the P1s to flower. GDP Bx1 and Maple Leaf x GDP are next in about a month. I've vegged the rest of the crosses in my veg battle dome where I purposefully stress the plants until mature, and no auto flowering issues, normal male/female ratios, good phenos. Both of the original GDP males did not give me any concern about herms, they were perfect males growth and timing wise. The GDP is definitely for nighttime, I got tempted once or twice to smoke it in the day and it put me down regardless.

Since @zeke had some auto flowering and herm concerns with the strain I'll do a couple rounds just for him :) I have a second Bx1 line I made with the Colbalt, the Rom pheno. Romulan is known for herming during flowering, the sativa phenos at least. In fact of the ~12 S1'd seeds (herm from a not-gunna-happen-here lighting accident) of my Sour Romulan there was one very male-like female. If there's any line that would herm that's the one I'm expecting to, as it'd be (herm x herm?) x herm?. Maybe the fun only starts in F2s.

I'm also growing out some Centennial Seeds Rio Negro Columbian. Supposed to be a Sativa, and if you're in CO I'm sure you've heard about their issues. I plan on making GDP Bx2 and Rio Negro x GDP F1s at the same time. I'm side eyeing a few plants due to their obvious asymmetry, they want to be sativa and could possibly herm. If not, it's in their genes and the cross would be a good test. In general that's what I'm going for with this style of breeding. Wide and shallow, I know the moms so figuring out what the mystery dad is responsible for gets easier the wider I go.

To be quite honest I'm not too worried about herming overall. It's a natural part of the plant, although it sucks for indoor growing. Currently I'm not growing for yield, I'm really trying to make a set of genetics that I can work with for a long time. If a line herms and is trash it dies and I pick up one of the other 6 or 7. If it herms but is still good......I have the new Cherry Pie :), and I'll be working the line a few generations anyway. Breeding it out is no biggie. Once I have a truly stable line from seed...then the growing for yield gets interesting. Think Sea of Green powered by tap roots.

 

[420circuit]

Beautiful philosophy for breeding.:D

And yes, familiar with Otto from Centennial, gave my garden a nice dose of pollen, my first experience with a huge pollen producing female. Was supposed to be a high CBD strain, instead it seeded several great plants with a garbage pollination, just an ugly beast of a plant, probably a hemp strain or cross. Def want to keep an eye on those. I am in the 'burbs between DEN and COS and have a small medical oriented garden.

You mentioned something that I had not really paid attention to before, the tap root that is present with seed, but absent from clones. The plants I ran in NFT/hydro from seed were a lot larger than the cloned plants, maybe because of that tap. Think I might have just learned something, thanks.:D

 

[malamus]

hey farmers,

I'm still going through the first round of back cross testing, getting some results that say I'm pointing in the right direction. Specifically I'm seeing two phenos so far, one that is pure grape sweetness and looks more indica and squat, and one that looks more like the cut with sativa like leaves and a stretchier growth, and has the same sweet smell, just turned down a little bit with a hearty skunk background.

They're only in veg though, once they flower they could end up being the same end product. I'm still just testing the progeny, with plans to expand my grow room later this year in order to create the IBL with a tested line.

What I wanted to get input on, is what do you guys think represents an awesome purp? All of the GDP I'm used to had a skunky background, but I remember being really impressed by the smell of dispensary labeled "the purps". Smelled like straight grape koolaid, but the buzz was basically nothing. I think I can tease that smell out of the indica pheno.

What kind of experience do you guys identify with for awesome purple? For me I'm just looking for a tasty knock out stone, all other traits I'm open to keeping in the line. Does having skunk in there bother anyone? Do people prefer sweet purps? Does it bother anyone that a GDP can have sativa like growth?

I welcome any input, especially if you've ran KENS cut yourself, or any other purple really. What did you like or hate about them?

I said before that I'm trying to create a stable line, Ken (or his breeder) did their thing by getting the genetics out there, but in my opinion a breeders job isn't finished until their shit is stabilized. I'm simply continuing their work with the hope of someday having something that I community can rely on to actually be and represent GDP. And no, running the clone only is not an option for me for many reasons, but the most significant is that clones are banned from my house after getting nasty infections from them.

 

[MamaBear]

I said before that I'm trying to create a stable line, Ken (or his breeder) did their thing by getting the genetics out there, but in my opinion a breeders job isn't finished until their shit is stabilized. I'm simply continuing their work with the hope of someday having something that I community can rely on to actually be and represent GDP.

Yes indeed! Doing the same thing here.

I agree with you, go for a "tasty knockout stone". I grow for effect (medicine) and that said, it really doesn't matter what it looks like or how it grows as long as it's hearty and healthy. Matching certain "high" attributes to plant growth attributes does make it easier since you don't really know what you've got until it's dried and cured. But I've had plants that look so similar they could be clones but the finished product can be a bit different. The male I kept (and collected pollen from) this year is like your "perfumed fruity funk" and darker in color. First male I've had like this, most have that skunky smell. F2's do give you a wide selection to work with. Anyway, I did get 1 female to match him this year. She's shorter than the rest, compact and dense and also has that sweet fruity funk with no skunk. She's making seeds now and I can't wait to grow them out!

 

[tipz]

 

[malamus]

Yes indeed! Doing the same thing here.

I agree with you, go for a "tasty knockout stone". I grow for effect (medicine) and that said, it really doesn't matter what it looks like or how it grows as long as it's hearty and healthy. Matching certain "high" attributes to plant growth attributes does make it easier since you don't really know what you've got until it's dried and cured. But I've had plants that look so similar they could be clones but the finished product can be a bit different. The male I kept (and collected pollen from) this year is like your "perfumed fruity funk" and darker in color. First male I've had like this, most have that skunky smell. F2's do give you a wide selection to work with. Anyway, I did get 1 female to match him this year. She's shorter than the rest, compact and dense and also has that sweet fruity funk with no skunk. She's making seeds now and I can't wait to grow them out!

hey thanks for chiming in, extra data always helps :). glad I'm not the only one who sees the potential in here. just had a bit of a set back due to my 8 BX1 testers turning male. good news is I got some data from it, there was a pretty clean separation between the skunk and the sweet phenos, with the sweet ones looking way more on the indica side, and having a much darker appearance.

my backups were a second Bx1 line, where I purposefully back crossed it to the more sativa Rom x GDP F1, and they're looking pretty uniform now, all are displaying the skunk traits so far.

I'm starting to think that what we're looking for isn't necessarily entirely dominant or recessive. The darker coloring in my experience always translates to purpling in flower, and so far is correlated with the knock out buzz I'm aiming for, but seems to have no pattern so far in dominance when out crossed.

I'm VERY interested in how the sweet x sweet GDP cross works out. Based on what I've seen so far it should yield something awesome, if not what I'm looking for. I'm currently gearing up for a third GDP Bx1 test where I'll up the numbers and stop stress testing to try to force a female out. From the first go around im certain I'll find the sweet pheno in male and female form again, your post has given me a kick to get it going!

 

[MamaBear]

The darker coloring in my experience always translates to purpling in flower, and so far is correlated with the knock out buzz I'm aiming for, but seems to have no pattern so far in dominance when out crossed.

Right on! I'm coming to the same conclusion. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instincts and hope for a good dose of luck. Cannabis is probably the most chemically complex plant on the planet and I believe we are only just beginning to understand it.

Glad I'm not the only one either! I think she has tons of potential to go in several different directions. And I'm thinking you may be right about them possibly crossing it with a fast-flowering skunk (or something with skunk in it). I remember smoking lots of grapey-purple GDP years ago and don't remember it ever having a really strong skunky smell. I'm trying to breed that skunkyness out to end up with a stable sweet purple. So far, looks like I'm on the right track. Will keep you posted.

Also, just to let you know, I grew several Deep Purple a couple years ago and 1 lady was killer. Very good but not extremely impressive until it had a looooong cure (about a year) but WOW, 1 hit would put you down in 15 minutes - for like 10-12 hours. Made me want to smoke in bed because I wasn't sure I'd make it from the garage to the bedroom before I fell over. And forget about any pain anywhere - whole body relaxes and floats off to bliss. Very groggy the next day though which I don't like. I find the GDP wears off clean so hope to find a happy medium between these 2 if it's even possible. Not a very "fun" high but for medicine . . . DAMN!! Made seeds DPxDP and DPxGDP that are stored properly for long term. I'll be growing some of those seeds next year. Anyway, try an extra-long cure. I find purples get a lot stronger if you can be patient. I've still got some, almost 2 years old now and still getting better like a fine wine.

 

[malamus]

@MamaBear it's frightening how close to the same experience we've had. Deep Purple was what started this whole purp quest for me, I had almost the same thing happen where I grew a pack out (along with some Rom x Grapefruit, this is when I became obsessed with GDP x Rom) and got an amazing female. Didn't try the deep cure, lost the female since then, and decided that inbreeding Deep Purple was too much work. I have tried the deep cure on the Romulan IBL that I'm using for the new GDP and boy oh boy you're right, almost like a fine aged beer or wine, and was definitely heavier than the normal cure, I'm guessing due to increased CBNs.

some quick pics so everyone knows i'm still alive and working. patience is definitely the name of the game. these are of my Dutch Passion Strawberry Cough (sativa) X GDP. The one pic with two plants, one way darker has a Mujica Suave from Helping Hands Herbals in Boulder. I always try to grow an unrelated comparison plant to make sure I'm not nuts if the GDP cross I'm working with starts acting weird. In some pics you can see the S. Cough X GDP has some fert burn, it just would not take up anywhere near the amount of nutes that the previous crosses have, or the Mujica Suave.

Quick review: not as strong as I would like, which was to be expected as the Sativa S. Cough was just not that strong, even when compared to the S. Cough Indica pheno. Taste was exceptional, both phenos delivered a vaping experience that was hard to rival. I had two phenos, one on the more sativa and slightly less purple side called strawberry guava due to it smelling EXACTLY like a ripe strawberry guava fresh off the tree, and another that was GDP leaning. Again while not strong, they both offered euphoric buzzes, with the GDP leaning bringing in the heavy stone I'm looking for and now expecting from the GDP dominant phenos.

 

[malamus]

I'm currently vegging a larger run of GDP Bx1s, both the GDP and the Cobalt lines, and am getting some great data. Once I flower those out later this year I'll start summarizing my findings, but so far I'm seeing definite evidence that GDP is a skunk x purp mix, and for breeding purposes it reliably transfers purpling, taste/smell, and bud structure.

This affects my plans a little as I'm really focusing now on creating a stable IBL that has the GDP traits I want, since I now have the data that shows that once I lock down those traits they'll transfer pretty cleanly. So far the plan is....stable IBL followed by a flood of F1 crossings.

If anyone has any recommendations for good potential partners for GDP let me know. I anticipate having test IBL seeds next fall.

 

[MamaBear]

Just beautiful!
I'm finding the same thing - everything I cross with GDP comes out mostly GDP. The smell/taste and effect carry through strongly.

I'm crossing it with Strawberry too but chose Strawberry Fields. I grew Strawberry Cough (indica pheno) and Strawberry Fields (Sagarmatha) side-by-side. Both grew about the same (hard to tell them apart) but SF had much more strawberry smell & taste after curing. Sagarmatha crossed a great SC with "unknown heavy indica" and back to it's mother. So, it's more indica than SC which I like better too. My cross brought out bigger buds. She still smells like GDP but with funky-strawberry mixed in. I hit my best female with the best male (her brother) so I'll have F2's to grow next year. Can't wait to get this one stabilized! Another couple of generations should do it.

I've also crossed GDP with Blackberry - it's a beast and I got 2 pheno's: 1 is about 7' tall and other is 10' tall but both look like just taller versions of GDP with bigger buds. Again, smell is mostly GDP with hint of Blackberry. I hit them with my sweet GDP male again this year for BX1's and will grow these seeds next year. Blackberry adds a powerful punch - not quite as strong as the GDPxDP cross but increased bud size is great and she's a hardy plant. She's leggy though, needs some training. Long side branches hang pretty low with those big, heavy buds. And she keeps most of the bud growth at the tips - not many inner "popcorn" buds which GDP is prone to do.

I've crossed GDP with several other strains but haven't had the chance to grow them out yet.
And YES! - it's slow going but worth it!

Looking forward to your summarizing!