Legion Of Living Organic Soil

[OldSmokie76]

foul odor is typically not good sign, yes possible anaerobic conditions . any way to turn your mix to oxygenate like tossing a compost pile.?

30 gal garbage can. Gonna dump it on a tarp. Let it bake in the sun for a day and recontain it. Add a bit of water and seal it back up for a while.

 

[jumpincactus]

I love it! I forget how cool some people can be here! Some hate being questioned even when it's a genuine question so I try to tip toe sometimes lol

We all have thick skin, or one would think. No forum snowflake in me. Have thick skin. Debate and question on...…….

 

[jumpincactus]

Anaerobic conditions are not a big problem imho when composting, some heavy duty microbes prefer it as far as i can remember. The smell i get is like rotting cannabis as i am using leaves and stems in my compost, it is sharp but sweet, also not overwhelming either a faint odour.

Ok I hear your thinking and will politely disagree and here is why.

Everything I think I know, says that good living soil is aerobic as plants life and (most) microbes prefer and require o2 to thrive. Now thats not to say there isn't a bevy of crobes that thrive in less than perfect anaerobic conditions. Cause the truth is lots of bacteria and other microbes can and do thrive in these hostile conditions. But in making a good compost the herd we are attempting to cultivate are aerobic loving organisms. Not so much any that do well in anaerobic enviros. Just throwing that out for debate. What do you fellas think on this thinkin.?

 

[OldSmokie76]

Oxygen equals good vibrant life. Septic decomposition equals stagnent death. Doesn't death equal life in the realm of organic cycle? Let's get deep. LMAO.

 

[crimsonecho]

Ok I hear your thinking and will politely disagree and here is why.

Everything I think I know, says that good living soil is aerobic as plants life and (most) microbes prefer and require o2 to thrive. Now thats not to say there isn't a bevy of crobes that thrive in less than perfect anaerobic conditions. Cause the truth is lots of bacteria and other microbes can and do thrive in these hostile conditions. But in making a good compost the herd we are attempting to cultivate are aerobic loving organisms. Not so much any that do well in anaerobic enviros. Just throwing that out for debate. What do you fellas think on this thinkin.?

Np man, we don’t have to agree on everything :) this is to break down the most difficult organic matter, like stems of cannabis. Then you mix it with your soil. You aerate it by mixin with your soil and any microbes that are not fit to live in a well aerated soil like mine naturally dies. So it is not that you are throwing bad bacteria in your soil. You are just using them for a fast decomposition.
Also as i said, i use lactobacilli for this process, so i don’t think there are much harmful bacteria in there. It is much like bokashi. Also i always use a nice worm tea to introduce lots of good aerobic bacteria after i mix this compost with my soil.

 

[Organikz]

If you have room the most ideal way to cook soil is in the "final containers". Just water it like there's a plant in there. @jumpincactus brought up a good point of building proper microbial populations while cooking. I'm so glad my amendments can be slow cooked

 

[crimsonecho]

If you have room the most ideal way to cook soil is in the "final containers". Just water it like there's a plant in there. @jumpincactus brought up a good point of building proper microbial populations while cooking. I'm so glad my amendments can be slow cooked

Agreed. But i don’t have a big grow space, so i cannot leave a tub of leaves and stems mixed with soil to let them break down. Plus i would need more soil definitely :) this way a bit of peat and shit ton of left overs with lactobacilli takes much faster and as i said i am deliberatly introducing large colonies of beneficial bacteria (lactobacilli). The EM has the same principal as far as i know. It is mostly to make anaerobic soils plant friendly by giving dominance to these beneficial anerobic microbes. Not all anaerobes are bad imho.

 

[jumpincactus]

Oxygen equals good vibrant life. Septic decomposition equals stagnent death. Doesn't death equal life in the realm of organic cycle? Let's get deep. LMAO.

you must be stoned!!!!! :D But even stoned that makes some sense

 

[jumpincactus]

Oxygen equals good vibrant life. Septic decomposition equals stagnent death. Doesn't death equal life in the realm of organic cycle? Let's get deep. LMAO.

Ill follow you all the way down the rabbit hole in to the rhizosphere, but you go first!!!!! :D

 

[OldSmokie76]

I'll drink the little bottle. You eat the cookie. LMAO. I'll stick around for more dirty jokes. Soil. Dirty. Hahahahaha.

 

[Organikz]

Agreed. But i don’t have a big grow space, so i cannot leave a tub of leaves and stems mixed with soil to let them break down. Plus i would need more soil definitely :) this way a bit of peat and shit ton of left overs with lactobacilli takes much faster and as i said i am deliberatly introducing large colonies of beneficial bacteria (lactobacilli). The EM has the same principal as far as i know. It is mostly to make anaerobic soils plant friendly by giving dominance to these beneficial anerobic microbes. Not all anaerobes are bad imho.

Anaerobes are very effective. Korean natural farming utilizes anaerobic bacteria. Anaerobes dont necessarily die. Most go into dormancy until conditions are right for them. Not saying your method isnt effective by any means.

 

[jumpincactus]

I'll drink the little bottle. You eat the cookie. LMAO. I'll stick around for more dirty jokes. Soil. Dirty. Hahahahaha.

ole smoky got his clown shoes on I see. lol @OldSmokie76 good sense of humor!!!

 

[jumpincactus]

This thread is taking a life of it's own and there are knowledgeable people participating which is awesome.

Indeed we used to rock this site with the organic farmers. Lots of knowledge has rolled thru these doors. Great thread. Now all we gots to do is keep you from getting knocked in your noggin with the fatefull ban hamma. lmao. And that might be a chore :p :D

 

[Smoking Gun]

So this may be a silly question but with LOS is there a layering effect that over time increases the total volume of soil? A living soil does still require organic inputs that accumulate as the grows progress, correct? If this increase in volume does in fact occur, how do you deal with this excess soil?

 

[OldSmokie76]

ole smoky got his clown shoes on I see. lol @OldSmokie76 good sense of humor!!!

Why stop at the shoes? Colorful jumpsuit, oversized bowtie, and rainbow afro wig.

 

[Organikz]

So this may be a silly question but with LOS is there a layering effect that over time increases the total volume of soil? A living soil does still require organic inputs that accumulate as the grows progress, correct? If this increase in volume does in fact occur, how do you deal with this excess soil?

CO2. Carbon oxidizes and converts to co2. The air in my grow room is probably just as rich as a guy running tanks. I simply mulch all plant materials that cannot be processed such as stems and leaves.

Closing the loop the best I can. It's actually a great question.

 

[jumpincactus]

Why stop at the shoes? Colorful jumpsuit, oversized bowtie, and rainbow afro wig.

OMFG!!!!!! yep your omboard……….. Great comeback!!!!! :)

 

[jumpincactus]

So this may be a silly question but with LOS is there a layering effect that over time increases the total volume of soil? A living soil does still require organic inputs that accumulate as the grows progress, correct? If this increase in volume does in fact occur, how do you deal with this excess soil?

yes you are correct, the soil volume will increase over time. But parts of the inputs will be mineralized by the microherd and a portion of it will compacted and become finer and finer and loose its (tilth) A good balanced LOS system always receives organic inputs. All we as indoor guys are doing is attempting to mimic recreating the natural forest and each season adds more organic matter with the changing seasons.

To answer your last question, at some point you do need to off set some of the spent soil to make room for fresh organic inputs. Hope that made some sense. It is a much easier task outdoors in a natural setting as the system handles all this for us. Indoors is a little trickier as you don't ever want to throw all the soil away as it still contains the microbes and critters that make up the whole balanced ecosystem.

I would suggest if your truly interested in this style of growing indoors there is a wealth of information on indoor bed planting and growing.

Not my words but here are a few things to consider when diving into indoor bed grows. Again outside it is a whole different beast and much easier overall.




Hey guys and gals, thought I'd make a thread illustrating some of the pros and cons of growing in an indoor bed. I'm 6 months in now through my bed grow and have had a few issues that I have had to work out, as well as a few things that I learned to like as well. BTW I run my beds no-till, I just add a top layer of amendment on the bed from time-to-time.

Pros:
Soil cost - There is a large upfront cost needed for the soil for your beds, however it is a one time cost (40 Cu. Feet of soil mix cost me in the 175 dollar range, using cheap nursery soils / ewc / amendments)

Root Growth- The root growth I am seeing is very fibrous and is not restricted like it is in a container.. my plants stretch often times 2-3 times their size and will continue growing throughout flower. Since a bed is much more akin to growing out in nature, the root structure is more natural and thus creates healthier plants. I can elaborate more on this if you would like me to, there is some reasoning behind this.

Watering - Watering once a week or so has been my favorite part, while it's a large amount of water at once there is less maintenance, if any, required in between waterings

Running 1 strain - if you run all of 1 strain, and are running them from the same stage of growth, watering , nute schedules, growth and everything is very uniform. Canopy is very even and yields can be very high.

Cons:
perpetual cycles are hard to pull off- it becomes difficult to determine the size of your plant needed to create a nice canopy, problems may arise that are difficult to address with plants being in different stages (not like u can move your flowering plants out or vice versa for a quick pesticide application), plants need different nutrition at different stages

Hard work - When you do work, it's typically of the back breaking type (moving large amounts of soil or sand), while less frequent definitely more difficult

Running different strains is tough - since all the plants grow very differently, yields will suffer if proper canopy control isn't taken... While growing 10 strains at once I had a few strains dominate and choke out smaller plants , reducing my yield on the small plants

***
Those are some of the major things that I can think of about running beds. If you can work out the cons or come to terms with them somehow, you can really reap the benefits of the pros..

Pest prevention and plant nutrition are both something that need to be learned quickly when running beds, however I feel the knowledge and experience you get from having to do these things prepares you for almost anything.

 

[Smoking Gun]

Thanks for the info cactus. I understand the principles of living soil quite well, I employ those practices in my professional life as a landscape designer. But there definitely are some aspects of creating the outdoors inside that have me a bit stumped. I guess once I get a living soil bed going I will start to grasp those concepts.

 

[OldSmokie76]

I'm planning on using half of my 5*5 tent to establish a no til LOS bed. Planning stages right now so I'm gonna be around asking a bunch of questions. I have a super soil mix, some ffhf and plenty of amendments. Considering a large 2'x4' tub. Deep enough to build layers. Any tips, suggestions, the typical forum feedback and what not. Let's build a co-op planting bed. I'll hang out here on your thread @Organikz and suck up a bunch of info. Once I have things set up, I'll start a new cooperative grow diary. You're all welcome to give input and suggestions. Then I'll hand deliver samples. LMAO.

So let's brainstorm this container and layers to establish. Larger Rubbermaid container maybe? Honestly, I'd like to use cedar boards. Built to fit tent. Depth? Layers of straw? Stone in bottom? BioChar? Wheels are turning...