Let's talk about fermented plant juice

[phenotyper]

Today I woke up thinking about how I'd really love to have a balanced organic nutrient that I can use on all of my plants, regardless of stage. This got me thinking, and I realized I have very little experience in the world of fermenting plant extracts.

What I'm after are a good source of aminos, carbohydrates, beneficials, NPK, triacontanol, and all the goodies that come with the kelp.

I would love if this thread went something like the organic tea brew recipe thread. Explain ingredients, dilutions, etc, along with any other helpful advice.

Fresh ingredients are better, but here is what I was thinking:

Equal ratios:
Down to earth alfalfa 2.5 - 1 - 1
Down to earth kelp 1 -.1 - 2
Soft Rock Phosphate 0 - 2 - 0
-------------------
3.5-3.1-3


Equal parts of the above three to fill a half gallon, mixed with a cup of powdered oatmeal (bob's red mill brand seems to have lots of goodies in it).

Then I was thinking about adding a cup or two of Activated EM-1, 1/4 cup of organic blackstrap molasses, and then 1/4 cup of aloe vera. Then water to fill the gallon. Fulvic acid could be added before or after, but I'm not sure on this part and would love input from those who have experience.

I would expect the fermentation to be ready when it drops below 4ph(I have no idea how long this will take, with EM-1, it takes about a week), but this is only based on how to activate EM-1, so additional sources or ideas are definitely recommended.

Suggestions, comments, other FPJs?

 

[phenotyper]

Furthermore, what are some vigorous plants that xoukf be grown without much care in an outdoor garden in order to enhance the juice?

 

[GrimloxK]

Well I like the train of thought, but I would ask if plants don't favor some elements over others at different stages in their life cycle...like in veg plants want more N than K and giving a balanced ratio might counteract the uptake of certain elements or rather the amount of uptake.

As for your fulvic acid...I've read and been told that fulvic acid is much better to use as a foliar spray than a soil drench. I'm using BioAg Ful-humix which is both humic and fulvic acid and have been foliar spraying and my plant really seems to enjoy it. With soil you don't want to overdo the humate substances in the soil...I'll try and find some research to back this up...

 

[dextr0]

Ferments:

coolest topic ever IMPO...LOL

 

[phenotyper]

Grim, I do soil drenches with fulvpower all the time. Fulvic increases availability and nutrient uptake. I'm well aware of the benefits, I was mostly asking because fulvic acid can inhibit microbial growth, or so I have heard. I was looking for confirmation.

 

[BIGSEED]

Ferments:

coolest topic ever IMPO...LOL

that thread is amazing. with the AN ferment could u use dr earth kelp meal? t
thanks for the help dextr0

 

[dextr0]

that thread is amazing. with the AN ferment could u use dr earth kelp meal? t
thanks for the help dextr0

I dont use dr earth kelp meal but then again im not really particular to any specific brands...use what works. Try it and tell us how great it worked.

 

[mrbong73]

The big four when it comes to plant extracts are Comfrey, Stinging Nettle, Yarrow and Dandelion.
Find them, grow them, love them.
All you have to do is put some of the plant material in a container with water and let sit for 3-5 weeks. The smell will knock your socks off but the plants will love you for it.
It's best to ferment each seperately.
You can add lacto b or EM for smell control but it's not necessary.
Here's a little diddy on Comfrey.

 

[phenotyper]

Thanks for the info MrBong. Why exactly should you ferment them all separately?

 

[phenotyper]

Also, after reading about comfrey, I ordered some organic rootstock so I can make my own FPE with it. Comfrey sounds like amazing stuff. I have a raised bed outside that needs to get some winter plants in it and I think I will fill it with comfrey to make some FPEs. Thanks for the tip MrBong!

 

[mrbong73]

Right on Pheno, you won't be bummed. Just make sure you get the Bocking 14 The regular variety will become very invasive.
Here's a pic of mine right after I planted it in the ground. 3-4 leaves will make a decent fpe.
Once you have a plant established it is very easy to make more plants with root divisions.
I have heard comfrey is best used as a mid flower booster. I just hit my bed with some a couple of days ago so we'll see.

Some cut and paste:

info:comfrey is an amazing plant, it gives so much really. this deep rooted forager. mines its roots deep into the soil and subsoil bringing up things lost in the topsoil where most plants roots are. it is a VERY hardy plant. it grows extremely fast, it makes excellent flowering fertilizer, its provides a living mulch once established ( we grow them with out fruit trees here and they love it) bulk compost material, its great medicine for you, the list goes on. if you want to grow comfrey in a confined space, meaning you dont want it to grow wild and do its thing. you will want to be buying the bocking 14 variety of comfrey. not only does the plant not produce viable seed, it has a higher nutrient content too. and propagating by root division is just too easy. this plant is tested to help cells reproduce and divide better. it can be used as a stand alone flower fertilizer if need bet

what to do with it:
- compost: comfrey is a good plant for composting, as it produces a bulk amount of leaf.

- plant extract:chop up the plant material and stuff a container ( bucket, 2 liter bottle with the bottom cut off ) then add some weight on top, the material will start to decompose and compress, a dark thick liquid will collect at the bottom for you to drain out. this can be diluted and applied. very high in potassium.

- liquid soak: add chopped plant material to a bucket with water. let soak for a few weeks. strain out material, store it or dilute it and use it. 1:20 - 1:30

- soil amendment - dry leaf and crush to a powder. amend into the soil at about 3 teaspoons per gallon of soil or simply top dress mixed with some compost

 

[Seamaiden]

Awesome post, mrb.

 

[phenotyper]

What do you think about fermenting comfrey with alfalfa for their collection of natural growth hormones? Is there any reason to ferment them separately?


While I wait for my co,frey to arrive I made an FPJ today that should be ready in about a month. Does EM-1 significantly speed up this process? I guess I will known soon enough by checking the PH, but I am curious if this could potentially be ready sooner.

I used, carrot leaves, brussel sprout leaves, tomato plant, banana peels, dill, oregano, rosemary, and some other random flowers I have in my small outdoor garden. I added molasses, EM1-A, 1 cup alfalfa meal, and 1/4 cup kelp meal. Really aiming for a nice veg nutrient with this one, with all micros.

 

[mrbong73]

I would say explore and experiment and report back. I think the reasoning behind keeping them seperate is so that you can fine tune. Some plants are better used during veg and some during flower. From what I'm told anyway.
With EM-1 or (Activated EM) temp plays a big role in fermentation time. Keeping it nice and warm will speed things up considerably. 2-3 weeks should be plenty.

I just made a "tea" or more like an infusion in one gallon water jug with 2 TBS EWC, 2TBS alfalfa, 1 TBS Neem seed meal and 1/2 TBS kelp. Shake hard every so often and apply after 24 hrs or so.

 

[dextr0]

A yall are right on on that, different mixes or plants for different ailments.

You dont want to counter-react and negate the whole process. I remember this post all the time when wondering what should be used how...

 

[Seamaiden]

Bump-a-lump, and gonna give another bump!

I know you grew up in the 70s if you know what The Bump is. ;)

 

[midwestdensies]

Sea i like where your head is it.. Stir it up, getting those gears going for my out door this year. Great thread. Where you at mr b?!! Could use your knowledge and update on your more recent findings.

 

[Seamaiden]

Ok, so last year I ended up using a lot of woolly mullein and whatever the oxalis species is we get growing annually. Why did I choose these plants? Because, when everything else was dying and brown, they were growing, and vigorously at that. I cannot quantify what I was getting out of them in terms of nutrients, minerals or secondary metabolites, however, they cost me NOTHING.

I do have some comfrey growing, but the deer really like it. Turns out that some years they like to eat my Camellia, too.

Speaking of which, either last year or the year before I started using the spent Camellia blooms, just as an experiment, on a rhododendron that cost me a pretty penny but hasn't bloomed well since I sited it. I made an FPE with the Camellia blooms, let it steep two days or so, and used that on this rhodie that wouldn't bloom. I got the most and best blooms from the rhodie after I used the Camellia blooms.

So, the idea is this--whatever is being located into bloom tissues (that's water soluble..?) can be used to feed other plants. This year the Camellia's looking sickly and I don't know why, so I don't know if it's going to bloom well. I may need to treat it instead of the rhodie!

Another plant extract that I've been using for YEARS--malted barley extract. Now, it's actually a very thick sugar used for making wort (beer brewing). However, malted barley is something special because the barley has been sprouted before malting. This year, since we are doing a lot more vegetarian cooking and one of our favorite dishes are fresh rolls (like spring rolls, but not fried), and one of my favorite things to put into fresh rolls are alfalfa sprouts, I'll be experimenting with those a little.

Unfortunately, when it comes to outdoor growing and experimentation, it's difficult to control all parameters. This is one reason why I'd bumped this thread, because LOTS of our farmers here are more indoor growers, and so that may make experimentation and teasing out results a bit easier.

 

[organicozarks]

When making FPE watch the use of humic/fulvic acids as it will raise your PH, and slow down, if not stop the fermenting process. I would say you use very little, and add it after you ferment. Also when fermenting with EM-1 temperatures need to be pretty high to get a short brew. Somewhere in the 80 range is what you want to shoot for. If not it can take months to get a good ferment. I have had some brews not ever drop to the correct PH. Fermenting with em-1 is an art. There are a lot of considerations, and you have to analyze everything you put into the brew. Less is more.:)

But once you get the process down your plants will thank you. Also application rates can vary widely. I have seen 500:1 recommended, but I have tested 4oz./gal with great results. So don't believe most of the hype you read about use rates. I would also like to point out that I have not seen any difference in the end product of using large amounts vs. smaller amounts except that larger amounts in flower will push out plant sap. Which most people don't want to happen. It does look very cool though to have all of these buds covered in goo, but it does nothing for the end product.

As a food source for the microbes in your soil I find ferments a valuable tool. With the proper use rates ferments and compost teas can work together to provide far superior results than each singly. I have done side by sides with ferments only, compost tea only, and ferments with compost tea, and the two combined gives larger flowers and bigger, fuller plants than the two singly. I will say that ferments by themself don't yield as well, but they are high quality extremely frosty buds. So for the person that doesn't want the fuss, using ferments only can get them magazine quality buds with a loss of yields. My tests showed about a 25% increase in yield when using the two together. Who would have thunk to use aerobic bacteria with anaerobic bacteria to get great results? Science is just awesome isn't it?:)

 

[Seamaiden]

Thank you for dropping in on this one, OO. I know you love your teas and such and have spent a great deal of time working with them, so I look forward to more sharing.

The 500:1 application rates I've read have all been for ferments done with additional sugars, some of them call for table sugar, some call for molasses.