Roots not falling into under current water

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A

ape it

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I was wondering if anyone has had the issue of the the roots not falling into the water. The roots seem to fill up the area above the water and below the cover.
I have grown roughly 8 runs using uc 8xl and uc 8xxl 13 gal.
The cutting are 2 weeks old.
I am using canna a+b and cal mag to 340 ppm.
Also running dm zone at 1 ml per gal.
Chiller is keeping the Rez at 67 deg.
Ph is fine around 5.8
This issue is really stumping me and I hope someone on this site has ran into this issue, worked thru it and could give me in site on how to fix it.
The roots have nice fish bone structure above the water. Then as soon as they touch the water it seems as the structure has been eaten off to only nubs left.
Maybe water temp is too low?
 
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Capulator

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
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By the pictures everything look a-o.k. and the roots ARE in the water.
 
COCOAKUSHXBLUE

COCOAKUSHXBLUE

30
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where its your water level set? are using any rooter plugs or just bare stems?
 
Amber

Amber

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I might actually try lowering the water level so that the roots will want to get in so to speak.
 
A

ape it

38
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I am using clones out of the ez cloner. The water level is about an inch below net basket and that had where it's been since day 1of system. I will bring the level down. I see the theory behind it, you want to tease them into the water.
 
A

ape it

38
8
They still seem not to want to fall in. I'm running over 400 lpm in a 8xxl 13. Cc nutes. Ro water + cal mag at 390 ppm 67 deg 5.9 ph.
The roots just hover over the water line.
It's almost like they are scared to go swimming. Any ideas?
Image Image Image
 
sixstring

sixstring

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I think your airpumps are so badass they are creating a nute fog above the water and the roots like it there maybe better then actually in the water?.they look good .
 
A

ape it

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Six I like the way you think. If that is correct then that would make this statements false... "you can never have too much air in the undercurrent and DWC."
 
sixstring

sixstring

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I have the same pump and those things put out some air.i saw you have more than 1 so it was the first thing I thought.you could probably use just one pump for the whole setup with a good splitter.but I think eventually your roots will just spread down into the water.you hate to change anything when your plants are doing good.
 
A

ape it

38
8
I have 2 220lpm pumps. Each pump is running 4 8in active aqua disks fed with 3/8 Id black tube. I'm thinking I will try your idea and replace the 220lpm pumps with 110 lpm pumps. Do you have any pics of your roots?
 
sixstring

sixstring

7,079
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I found that pump was good for like 6 buckets but just too much for 2 or 3 plants.i run dwc when I run hydro but I ended up buying a few cheap 20.00 pumps from walmart and my plants did much better.still get plenty of air and good fast growtheven in a bigger res like the igloo coolers.
Mkog dwc 019

Got roots
Mk br hydro 005
Mk br hydro 007
Mk hydro 8 10 002
Res change
 
sixstring

sixstring

7,079
313
yeah I run organics in flower to help with the higher res temps and it seems to work.some day ill do a room of rdwc with a chiller.just need another room:)
 
A

ape it

38
8
So in stead of changing out the pump. I decided to put a rheostat on the 220lpm pump to be able to control the the bubbles.
My theory behind the under correct stalling from the transition from pre veg systems to undercurrent is as follows.
I believe the stalling is not to do with the level of the water or how much of cal mag or nutrients you add but how you tease your plant into the transition.
I've noticed that if you have too much oxygen from your air stone it actually pushes the roots up to the surface of the water. So I dialed down my pump so that the roots were at roughly at a 45 deg from where they entered the water to the tip of the root. So this is actually coaching the root into the water.
Here are some pics of the same plant three days from the last pics I posted.
Now I have dialed up the pump to correct the roots back to a 45 deg. They grew over 6 in in 3 days. In the 10 + grows in the under current, I have never seen growth like that.
 
woodsmaneh

woodsmaneh

1,724
263
Well looks like you have it sorted out. Couple of comments

I would move my air pumps to higher ground, a milk crate is great. If your power ever goes off the water will back siphon through the pump and empty on to your floor. If you have back flow valves no issue.

As you found out high turbulence is bad for your roots, it damages them. Bigger is not better when dealing with air and roots.

Also you can provide to much oxygen to the roots but you need some specialized equipment.

Here is a study on oxygen levels

THE APPLICATION OF ROOT ZONE OXYGENATION IN GREENHOUSE PRODUCTION (OVERVIEW)
Dr. Youbin Zheng, Linping Wang, Johanna Valentine, Sally Taylor and Dr. Mike Dixon
Department of Environmental Biology
Controlled Environment Systems Research Facility
University of Guelph
Alberta, Canada
Study Synopsis
This is a two year study on the response of root zones in plants to increased dissolved oxygen. Four levels of dissolved oxygen where used 8, 20, 30, and 40 (ppm) parts per million. This study shows a direct relationship between increased dissolved oxygen to the root zones and faster, bigger, healthier plants.
Positive Findings from the Study
  • “Plants harvested after two weeks of oxygenation treatment revealed that root systems in the 30 ppm treatment were bigger and heavier (both fresh and dry weights), and the main stems were thicker than those of plants in the other treatments.” Note: This study was in a greenhouse controlled environment. 30ppm is the optimal level of dissolved oxygen. On a golf course most untreated irrigation water has 2-4 ppm of oxygen.
  • “It is well known that DO at most greenhouse crop root zones under most conditions is lower than 8 ppm and oxygen deficiency can not only cause reduced growth, but can also encourage the infection of root disease.” Note: This is a clear statement that points out the importance of increased dissolved oxygen.
Negative Findings from the Study
  • “The reduced growth of roots and stems under higher DO (e.g. 40 ppm) may be due to the fact that high root zone oxygen levels significantly increased root respiration rates.” Note: This statement is a little misleading; after the root zone grew to its limit in 40 ppm solution, it began to reduce in size in-relation to how massive it had become from the treatment. The root zone treated with 40ppm was still substantially bigger than the one with 8ppm.
  • “The results imply that tomato root zone DO could be as high as 30 ppm for up to four weeks without causing any negative effects on plant growth.” Note: Again, this is misleading per the above explanation. It is also worth noting that it is virtually impossible to deliver 40ppm of DO in a golf course environment, 30ppm is about the max.
Thoughts and Comments

It is no secret how important oxygen is to water, turf, and soil, and this study is a perfect basis for this thought. Most golf courses spend tens of thousands of dollars each year on aeration. The main five main reasons for aeration are to loosen compacted soil, reduce thatch layer, improve water infiltration, improve nutrient infiltration, and increase oxygen supply to roots. The combined use of ozone and oxygen gas diffusion has been proven in numerous studies to accomplish all of these benefits nightly through irrigation water gas diffusion. Additionally, this is a non-invasive method which does not cause viable turf disruption or stoppage of play.
 
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