Smallzz's 5 Steps to bigger outdoor plants

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Smallzz

Smallzz

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Hello all,

This is going to be my little "giving back" to the community that taught me everything that I know about growing outdoors.

1) Smart Pots- If you aren't using smart pots, you're not utilizing the greatest thing to hit outdoor growing since the invention of the sun. Smart pots, air pots, etc etc all do the same thing, air prune your roots as your plants grow bigger. One common mistake is to not use an appropriately large enough smart pot. I can't emphasize this enough, if you're growing with a plant count, then you should be using at least 100-150 gallon pots at a minimum. Cannabis plants will quickly utilize the provided soil, and you'll be wondering why you didn't go with a 2-300 gallon pot at the end of the season (so skip to it from the beginning and save yourself the headache!) Smart pots also lead directly into number two...

2) Drainage- Most people who grow on the forums place very little emphasis on proper drainage. If you look at the monster plants that humboldtlocal grew in 2010 in the above sticky, you'll notice that all of his plants are on sloped hills. This allows the runoff to do exactly as it sounds, run off somewhere else instead of drowning the roots at the bottom of your pots. People who use soil beds or excavate holes in the ground also run into problems with runoff because the ground naturally acts as a basin that catches the runoff water, so place your pots on a surface that will promote proper drainage. Speaking of drainage...

3) Soil Composition- Make sure to include a good mix of Perlite, Coco, or other amendments to your soil mixture that promote runoff. The goal is to feed the plant as often as possible without overfeeding or over watering, so buy a soil that has micro nutrients and amendments, underfeed, and water as frequently as your drainage allows. Always make sure to Ph your water if possible, something that is frequently done in the indoor section and frequently neglected in the outdoor section. Most quality soils like happy frog or Ocean Forest contain micro nutrients and amendments such as Perlite, but never enough as Perlite is expensive. You're not growing tomatoes, you're growing an extremely valuable medicine. Don't skimp on something as important as soil composition.

4) Heat- One problem that both smart pots and raised beds share is heat. Remember, the pots are where the roots are, so that's where the plant is. If you can buy a thermal sensor gun from a local auto parts store it will tell you wonders about how hot the outside edges of your pots or raised beds are, which you can avoid by wrapping full pots with a few layers of burlap. This prevents heat pruning, which is devastating in smaller pots (such as anything smaller than a 100 gal pot). Also consider where you'll be planting. Shade during the hottest part of the day keeps a Cannabis plant from exceeding 85* F, which is the point at which water transmission literally crawls to a halt. Check your main stalk temperature at the hottest part of the day. If it exceeds 85* F, you're starving your plant of water transmission from the roots. Consider positioning a mister or or fan emitter near the main stalk to help regulate temperature.

Pruning and Low Stress Training- Pruning the inner growth of the cannabis plant, especially in the vegetative stage, will help promote growth towards where we want it... the big baseball bat top colas! Lower growth typically yields what is referred to as larf, littles, shake, or what I just simply call unwanted growth. By LSTing an outdoor plant, usually with the aid of a trellis net (or many! Some creative individuals have even been known to use dog kennels ;) ), we increase the effective surface area of the plant in much the same way as the indoor grower does. This results in larger, more productive plants ( as long as the root system is able to sustain them), which should be the goal of anyone working under plant limitations. Pruning is especially helpful when utilizing LST outdoors because of the many unproductive inner branches that are created by manipulating the plant outdoors.

Well that's all, folks. I hope you enjoyed the read, and good luck in 2014! ;)

-Smallzz
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

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Thanks Sea, I hope you take care and I'll be lurking if anyone has any points of contention or questions. I can't give away too many trade secrets, but I'll always do my best to help out a farmer in need, especially the veteran farmers we have on here.

Hopefully I can do some networking as well and find a place to grow for next year, so that I'm not just living vicariously through the rest of ya! :p I've got some great ideas for 2014 that I want to put into practice.
 
Mr_GreenGenes

Mr_GreenGenes

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Def. some good points here, esp. if growing outdoors in your backyard, thanks for takin the time to share Smallz. I think a lot of the pitfalls mentioned here could probably be detoured by simply digging a hole, filling it with amended soil and put the plant directly into the ground. I'm sure for some this might not work as they might need to move the plants at some point. Seems like a lot of peeps are using big ass containers these days but I'd just rather use good ol mother earth. :) MGG
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

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Hey MGG, thanks for stopping by. One of the problems with just digging a hole is that the soil surrounding the soil that you dump in to the hole never has the same drainage capabilities, usually because it's got a much higher sand content or has hardpan. Thus the basin and bowl problem. The smart pots negate a lot of these problems by creating a raised bed that can be easily moved to a slope.
 
Mr_GreenGenes

Mr_GreenGenes

1,536
263
Although you're right, there will be a difference in drainage between the amended soil and native soil, I've never found that to be an issue. I really need to adjust my thinking when I think outdoor. When I think outdoor I immediately think offsite/guerrilla grow only b/c that's what I've always done and sometime forget that some peeps are lucky enough to grow their outdoor girls right on their back deck/yard.

Again some really good tips, but I've grown some damn trees in the great outdoors by digging a 3x3x3 hole and fillin it will some ammended soil, depending on the area some polymer crystals to help retain moisture for longer periods and let em go.

One other thing. I don't like and normally wouldn't touch anything made by Advanced Nutrients, but their Heavy Harvest kicks ass for any guerilla growers out there. MGG
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

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Thanks again for the kind words and the tip on AN's Heavy Harvest. I sometimes forget about the gorilla growers out there, mostly because I'm fortunate enough to have lived in Cali and now in WA.
 
Danksnax

Danksnax

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Good tips, I'll have to try some smart pots and run-off-promoting amendments next season.
Also, welcome to the Evergreen State! I was trying to find your cage grow and realized you deleted it. Those babies were massive, I figured you had police problems because they were probably poking past your shade cloth by a mile come harvest. How did they finish up for you?
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

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Hey dank! Good to see you again, thanks for the welcome home (I was born in WA).

The girls got turned over to a neighbor for the last half of flowering due to some personal issues, but even being raised by some, in my opinion anyway, subpar growers, they were the biggest plants in his garden at 4-5 Ps each. Still drying some more on the second one.

If I can find some real estate to grow on in 2014, I'm pretty convinced I can get closer to my 10 p goal of med grade per plant. My ladies would have been bigger than they are now if daddy didn't turn them over to the neighbor haha

You should hit me up sometime, if my cali connections don't work out I'm going to be looking for someone more local I trust that I can help out with a grow next year. Would even love to get me some indoor rollin' again too.
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

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I also broke my own rule (mistakes are how we learn), and only used 100 gal smart pots on my first grow. I probably wont ever touch anything smaller than a 300 gal smart pot if I can help it from here on out in my life.

Good thing I learned at 24! :p haha
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

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May be posting my application online for someone who needs another farm hand. Looks like my cali connections aren't panning out for me as I expected.

How do you do that within the forum rules anyway?
 
Danksnax

Danksnax

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Might just want to create a "GET-WORK" Thread (Washington, Oregon, California sub-forum?) where people can post up their non-classified information and property owners can go through, read the applicants, and PM anyone that looks qualified for the work that they have available (which might be you:woot: ).
 
jaredman

jaredman

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I must say that a smart pot is def not the best way to go. If you have the land the ground is the best possible. In nature you have all of the biodiversity living in the ground that you can never duplicate in a smartpot. For a real organic grower that is going to reuse the same hole year after year there is no comparison. Even for a year to year guy, you will have a very hard time adding all the things you could get into your holes in the ground, mixed into a smartpot. For one the microbial life will die in a smartpot if you screw up, in the ground new life is all around. Two, worms and other beneficial organisms will be ever present in the ground and you can kill them without replacement in smartpots. Also I would love to see a smartpot that is twenty feet wide like a hole in the ground can be. Even the thousand gal ones are not that big. There are many reasons that the ground is the best, I could go on all day. Bottom line is you should be experienced in both styles of growing before telling people what is best. I have only four years under my belt outside and I have grown in pots every year. they work well but the ground is the place to be, I rent though and don't have the luxury. Many things you have said is bad advice and sounds like you give it having read about it and not experienced it. You are suggesting using at least 300 gal smartpots with foxfarm? Do you have any idea what that costs? Also saying things like coco helps drainage? coco retains water how does that help drainage. Why would a person be inclined to underfeed? Feeding the correct amount is how to maximize growth not by underfeeding. That makes no sense. Your temp scale is way off too. Plants outdoors thrive when it is hot out. Mine grow the best between 95 and 100. Smart pots get hot as hell and the ground is way better for this than a pot will ever be no matter what you try and shade it with. Your advice to put an emitter for misting the plants is really bad as well, maybe for veg it could be good if it were external but the rule of thumb is to not get the stalk wet or even the soil within six inches to avoid stem rot. All I am saying is it sounds like you read a bunch of stuff and tried to give advice as if it were first hand and it seems like bad advice to me. Your heart was in the right place but get the experience under your belt with multiple outdoors before you are an expert please
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Oh, come on, this isn't a thread announcing he's an expert, this is a about how Smallz pulled off 4-5lbs per plant, and how anyone else with a little space and some muscle would be able to do it. There's nothing wrong with someone sharing how they succeeded so easily and sharing how they did it, is there? That idea feels to me the same as the statement, "Never take growing advice from someone who doesn't post pix of their grow on the internet!"

I'll use an example of where I think you're off on your own advice. My own land here is very heavy clay, something Mary just don't like. I own, not rent, so I can dig all the holes I want. Yet, for me SmartPots and raised beds are the way to go. I can line them with hardware cloth (hello, gophers, fuck off!), I can fill them with the exact soil mix I like, a mix that won't compact and become so heavy the plants can't penetrate it well within a single growing season. I can also rest easy knowing that the irrigation isn't pooling at the bottom of a hole I dug and filled with topsoil, or running off to evaporate.

I've tried both ways, and raised beds or SmartPots is where I've landed. Not to mention that one of the biggest, best and most successful commercial growers I know only uses SmartPots outdoors. Ever. And he owns plenty of land to be digging holes into. ;)

About the only thing I would take some exception to is the Fox Farms for expense, but buying bulk topsoil isn't always feasible for everyone, either. I also think that a damn good grow can be pulled off in a 65gal SP.

If you're concerned about worms and such, then build your own SmartPot like I did. Bottom and sides made from 1/4" hardware cloth (gophers can get through the 1/2"!), some electrical conduit cut down for cheap stakes, hammered into the ground, then commercial-grade landscaper's cloth lining the sides. I did mine at 3'x3'x2' deep, and I actually like my homemade fabric pots better than my purchased SmartPots (the rigidity of the conduit and wire have made all kinds of issues go away).

There's a lot that I could debate, many finer points, but the point I simply want to make is that what Smallz outlined pretty much guarantees success, and someone doesn't have to be an expert to be able to pull it off. I read what he posted, and it's actually pretty good. Except for the Fox Farms. :D
 
jaredman

jaredman

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even if you have clay soil you can make a French drain and fill in large holes with amended soil. Ground is still better. And why would the only people with good growing advice have to post pictures? I could post pics of my 12foot tall perfectly round hedges to prove I know what I am talking about but I think it is dumb to post pics. My plants are as big as blaze or any other outdoor thread from this year. I was simply saying that before giving advice someone should be telling fact from personal experience not read a bunch of forums and be an expert off others work. I only post on experience though I have read most every thread on here. I don't notice to many pics of your grows by the way sea? The real reasons for achieving a monster plant are not mentioned really at all in these tips, something along the lines of "I can't reveal all the trade secrets". That is because the trade secrets are unknown to this individual. Best advice for anyone reading this thread is this, don't confuse amateurs advice for fact.
 
jaredman

jaredman

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63
Also smallz, hit me up, Im in Oregon and you can rent my space if you want for next year. Im outta the outdoor scene after this year. I don't harbor any ill will towards you just think you need more experience before you start doling out the advice. pm me if you want the details on the property. Then you can get a season under your belt and prove me wrong :)
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

153
63
I must say that a smart pot is def not the best way to go. If you have the land the ground is the best possible. In nature you have all of the biodiversity living in the ground that you can never duplicate in a smartpot. For a real organic grower that is going to reuse the same hole year after year there is no comparison. Even for a year to year guy, you will have a very hard time adding all the things you could get into your holes in the ground, mixed into a smartpot. For one the microbial life will die in a smartpot if you screw up, in the ground new life is all around. Two, worms and other beneficial organisms will be ever present in the ground and you can kill them without replacement in smartpots. Also I would love to see a smartpot that is twenty feet wide like a hole in the ground can be. Even the thousand gal ones are not that big. There are many reasons that the ground is the best, I could go on all day. Bottom line is you should be experienced in both styles of growing before telling people what is best. I have only four years under my belt outside and I have grown in pots every year. they work well but the ground is the place to be, I rent though and don't have the luxury. Many things you have said is bad advice and sounds like you give it having read about it and not experienced it. You are suggesting using at least 300 gal smartpots with foxfarm? Do you have any idea what that costs? Also saying things like coco helps drainage? coco retains water how does that help drainage. Why would a person be inclined to underfeed? Feeding the correct amount is how to maximize growth not by underfeeding. That makes no sense. Your temp scale is way off too. Plants outdoors thrive when it is hot out. Mine grow the best between 95 and 100. Smart pots get hot as hell and the ground is way better for this than a pot will ever be no matter what you try and shade it with. Your advice to put an emitter for misting the plants is really bad as well, maybe for veg it could be good if it were external but the rule of thumb is to not get the stalk wet or even the soil within six inches to avoid stem rot. All I am saying is it sounds like you read a bunch of stuff and tried to give advice as if it were first hand and it seems like bad advice to me. Your heart was in the right place but get the experience under your belt with multiple outdoors before you are an expert please

Hey Jared, thanks for showing up to the party and getting some conversation started! My post, like Seamaiden said, wasn't meant to shake the ground that an expert walks on, it was supposed to be a "backyard how to for dummies". My personal success is easily replicated, and that was the point of my post here on the forums.

Personally I don't care about "real organic growing" or the biodiversity, which you can replicate based on what kind of soil you use, what you add to that soil (compost, EWC, bennies, etc etc), my hope with smart pots and what I was trying to convey is that by raising your medium outside of the crust of the earth, you achieve greater drainage. Would you debate that mixing your own soil and compost mix in a smart pot, air pot, raised bed, or what have you would have greater drainage than just excavating a hole?

No, i'm suggesting at least 300 gal smart pots with whatever soil or medium you prefer, my preference and suggestion being fox farms. And yes I have an idea of how much that costs, do you know the black market price for an outdoor pound of marijuana in Northern California? 1300-1500$ depending on quality and when you bring it to said market. Why anyone would skimp on their growing medium when growing something that valuable is unbeknownst to me.

My advice about stem temperature and water transmission was second hand, you're correct. It was a consulting video that Jorge Cervantes did at a lake county farm with a thermal sensor gun, and one of the things he mentioned was water transmission through the plant and how that crawls to a halt after the stem exceeds the optimal growth temperature for cannabis. You can take that point of contention up with him the next time you see him, I'll trust a guy with a horticultural degree and 30 years experience over your degree and four years.

If stem rot was really a concern with proper airflow underneath your plants and having an emitter near your stem, then I'm sure my plants would have been fucked a few times over. I never experienced this problem though, hence my suggestion to help regulate temperature by doing this.

No ill will harbored, ever. This is a growing forum, your point that coco helps with water retention is a good one, I don't know what I was thinking when I listed that as a drainage amendment. If I could modify my original post after more than just 30 minutes I would take that out of there.

Sorry if I seem a little discombobulated in my reply, I've been spending all my time in the Indoor section reading up on hydro, my next venture.
 
Smallzz

Smallzz

153
63
Also smallz, hit me up, Im in Oregon and you can rent my space if you want for next year. Im outta the outdoor scene after this year. I don't harbor any ill will towards you just think you need more experience before you start doling out the advice. pm me if you want the details on the property. Then you can get a season under your belt and prove me wrong :)


I would love to come to Oregon and prove you wrong, as well as a few other folks who don't like me much around here, but I'm afraid the future of growing is indoor, and that's where I'll be heading from now on. My outdoor tips thread was just a parting shot so that the experience I had growing outdoor, and little amount of knowledge I managed to accumulate, didn't go completely to waste.

Next time I can PM you before I try to share some of my growing insights from my personal experience and get permission? :p

Sorry I don't have pics for you btw, I had an episode and had Seamaiden steam clean my profile because I thought I was being cased.

P.S. I'm really glad you brought up french drainage. I'd wholeheartedly recommend that EVERYONE put their pots and raised beds on top of that style of drainage if possible to promote better runoff. It's just one of those trade secret things I don't like to talk about sort of thing that I mentioned. :p
 
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