To clone a clone

[Don007206]

I have run out of seed .. All I have are veging clones ... To clone a clone or not is the question .... I have only used seed grown plants as cutting donors ... I have been told don't clone a clone but it's been so long I can't remember why I have some loss of yield and power thoughts but is it that big a change .. It must be done all the time but before I jump the broom let me know if she's a worthless wxxxx if I clone her...

 

[MakinGoo]

I always clone a clone I've did it that way 4 many many years with great results

 

[Dunge]

Genetic drift - myth?
Growers with far more experience than I credit "genetic drift" with degrading a plant over many cloning generations.
While I don't doubt the observation, I don't understand how genetics can be in play.
Isn't it more likely that metabolic instability is causing reduced vigor?
Qualified growers report unlimited clone generations.
Keep them healthy and they will thrive.

Am I off base here?

 

[KAL EL]

I have plants that are clones of clones going on 14 years old.

 

[Don007206]

Thanks guys I just felt it was worth throwing out there ...

 

[El Cerebro]

Genetic drift - myth?

Yes, and the common term clone we use is also incorrect. When we take cuttings, the new plants are simply a continuation of the original one, and hence are the same age. Some plants seem to 'age' better than others.

I have plants that are clones of clones going on 14 years old.

See? :)

 

[philly kush]

I always clone a clone I've did it that way 4 many many years with great results

I agee with GOO ive bin cloning from clones for years i actually took a few cuttings from a clone 2day n i even have mothers that were clones,so go ahead n clone away

 

[nebulius]

I've read of growers having near 20th generation cuttings and have reported no loss in yield or adverse changes.
I used to think that it worked like a cassette tape (showing my age), copies of copies lose sound quality.
Back in the day I used to tape songs off the radio and make my own mix tapes, then tape them for friends, lol. Hence the experience with copies of copies.

 

[caregiverken]

Good question Don...and good news...I like the answers so far. :)
I think the bubba I have been clonining from clones of clones is getting better ;)

 

[El Cerebro]

Good question Don...and good news...I like the answers so far. :)
I think the bubba I have been clonining from clones of clones is getting better ;)

Ripening in its old age, eh?

 

[caregiverken]

Ripening in its old age, eh?

:) Yeah I guess so.
For one, The internodes (sp?) seem to be closer together than the Original clone I bought at harborside 18 months ago.

 

[Don007206]

I've read of growers having near 20th generation cuttings and have reported no loss in yield or adverse changes.
I used to think that it worked like a cassette tape (showing my age), copies of copies lose sound quality.
Back in the day I used to tape songs off the radio and make my own mix tapes, then tape them for friends, lol. Hence the experience with copies of copies.

Thats funny I remember running my tapes to death ..or tapping the radio over and over for new songs..

 

[El Cerebro]

had one of the first boomboxes with double tape, talk about some cloning..

 

[outwest]

had one of the first boomboxes with double tape, talk about some cloning..

High speed dubbing FTW!

outwest

 

[ttystikk]

Well, we can thank our lucky stars that cuttings aren't like cassettes, or, heaven help us, 8-tracks! On the other hand, the guy who invented the 8 track was Bill Lear, yep- the dude who started Learjet. Props for workin' your way up, brother.

As far as cuttings are concerned, it's the only known way to preserve the original pheno. Want an extreme example? Every variety of apple, including all the crabapples, are ALL cuttings taken from one original tree that showed those characteristics. If you toss some apple seeds in the ground, what comes up bears little resemblance to the original because apple trees don't run true to type. How long do you suppose granny smith, fuji or red delicious apples have been around, cut and grafted over and over again, without the mythical 'genetic drift'? Longer than any of us, and then some...

There are plenty of varieties of cannabis out there that are available as a 'cutting only' for a reason; that was the only pheno the Original Grower thought was worth saving, and so that's how they get passed around.

 

[caregiverken]

just hit those "cutting only" clones with some Alien pollen...and never buy cuts again ;)

 

[LordVane]

It's to do with cell senescence, the question of whether cloning clones over several generations will lead to reduced vigor and yield. In most organisms, senescence is a problem, but plant cells are totipotent. Theoretically you could clone for a million generations and not see any difference to the first generation.

 

[purpleberry]

I actually see yeild and vigor go up after I get ahold of a clone. Ive noticed on several cuts that they are week and have PM and or mites ect. even after I clean them up and get them healthy they dont perform very well. After I take clones of the clones and keep them healty they do much better after that. The KensGDP I got took me a few generations of cuts to get it to clone, and veg good, and then it also did better in flower.
I had a OG cut that would want to pre flower, and just never grew good. I tried cloning it several times, It wouldnt come out of it for anything and when put in flower did very poor,The guy i got from grew very poor and screwed that cut up some how. I had to get a cut back from where the guy that gave it to me got it, and that cut was all gravy after that.
Keeping healthy mother, and always keeping the best looking clones for mothers will go a long ways. If someone runs a crapy veg they could very well be right when they say there clone have lost vigor and use that as a excuse for there poor results.

 

[Chobble]

I actually see yeild and vigor go up after I get ahold of a clone. Ive noticed on several cuts that they are week and have PM and or mites ect. even after I clean them up and get them healthy they dont perform very well. After I take clones of the clones and keep them healty they do much better after that. The KensGDP I got took me a few generations of cuts to get it to clone, and veg good, and then it also did better in flower.
I had a OG cut that would want to pre flower, and just never grew good. I tried cloning it several times, It wouldnt come out of it for anything and when put in flower did very poor,The guy i got from grew very poor and screwed that cut up some how. I had to get a cut back from where the guy that gave it to me got it, and that cut was all gravy after that.
Keeping healthy mother, and always keeping the best looking clones for mothers will go a long ways. If someone runs a crapy veg they could very well be right when they say there clone have lost vigor and use that as a excuse for there poor results.

Very true, I keep a mother of Larrys OG Kush. The mother itself was very poor and so where her sister clones (They hermied like no other). I have not experienced that problem with the clones from the mother though. They are actually some of the strongest clones in my garden atm.

 

[Ganjafarmer562]

A clone is a 100% genetic replica. There is no genetic drift. Some of the clones us growers have grown may have been cloned hundreds of times. I usually try to keep seed mothers if possible, but if the moms run into an issue, clone it and make sure the clone stays nice an healthy and you just kept your precious strain around!