Who's Growing Tlo Style (the Rev)?

[Perception]

I am doing a TLO grow 100% by the (Rev's) book (as far as the soil goes anyway). This is only my second grow. I bought the book half-way through my first grow and then ran around all the stores (in the middle of Maine winter) trying to buy all the amendments and get a soil "cooking" before I needed it. It was expensive- probably close to $200. ( Afterward, I see where I could have bought a premixed amendment package from tlosoils.com that may have been the way to go_ I haven't done the due diligence to know for sure but, it's worth a look).
My tent is one square meter (39") or 10sqft.
600w HPS with 1 300w (136w actual viparspectra led). I have 3 of these from my first grow. I am thinking about adding a second one just because I can.
I flipped to 12/12 five days ago.
I have fed them nothing but RO water from seed but plan to give them the "flower tea" in a week or so, keeping the PPM around 85ish.
These plants have showed some signs of too much nutes during veg.- twisted leaves (not too major) and "eagle" clawing with lime green tips and, on one strain, bright green/yellow new-growth.
That is all but gone now that I have flipped and they are exploding.
Unfortunately, I think I may have a male or two still. I thought I had them culled out but, I am a noob and, now that we are at the stage to know for sure, a couple of them no longer look very promising. Piss me off. It may be ok though, the tent is filling up quick with these 7 plants in 3 gallon soft pots- 5 may be just fine.

Nice! That's awesome that you are doing a Rev style right grow right now. Very curious to hear how things go - please keep us posted. I have a very similar setup.

 

[goingtoguano]

p. You're running organic in 3g? Is that recommended by that guy? Never seen organic in less than a 5g.

Yep, he says he grows in 2-3 gal. pots and flips to 12/12 at around 18 inches and the plants final size is 2-3ft. He also says he figures the size needed for a water-only grow all the way through (no additional teas or top dressings) at 3.5 gal.
If I had know I would only end up with 5 plants, I probably would have gone with 5 gallon smart-pots.

Edit: trying to figure out how to use the quote feature on my phone- not going so well.

 

[Perception]

p. You're running organic in 3g? Is that recommended by that guy? Never seen organic in less than a 5g.

Yep, he says he grows in 2-3 gal. pots and flips to 12/12 at around 18 inches and the plants final size is 2-3ft. He also says he figures the size needed for a water-only grow all the way through (no additional teas or top dressings) at 3.5 gal.
If I had know I would only end up with 5 plants, I probably would have gone with 5 gallon smart-pots.

Edit: trying to figure out how to use the quote feature on my phone- not going so well.

I picked up the larger self-watering pots that The Rev recommends (I think they are about 3.5 gallon), as it just seemed hard to believe the ~2gal ones would hold water well enough (The Rev states that he likes the ~2gal ones).

I feel like the TLO method the Rev preaches is not really self-sustaining Living Soil (which would be that long term, 15gal+, humus-based soil mentioned above), but rather he is running the smallest possible pots, with a higher level of manual inputs, to keep the fire going. If that makes sense (?).

These are the self watering pots that The Rev recommends, and sure enough, I found them at Walmart just like his book said. So far, my outdoor tomato plant is doing very well in one of these, and the self-watering really helps prevent it from going too dry.

 

[goingtoguano]

My wife has one of those sitting around empty and it is pretty good size, I think I will try it on my next grow to see how well they work. My one concern with those is the speed at which they can wick up the water or, maybe I don't really understand how they are supposed to be used. I know that, with the 3 gal. smart pots that I am using now, I have to water (1/2 gal per plant) every other day but the cloth pots dry out fast (maybe too fast). If the self-waterers are slow on the uptake, watering will become tiresome but, I guess you can still water from the top, right?

 

[Perception]

My wife has one of those sitting around empty and it is pretty good size, I think I will try it on my next grow to see how well they work. My one concern with those is the speed at which they can wick up the water or, maybe I don't really understand how they are supposed to be used. I know that, with the 3 gal. smart pots that I am using now, I have to water (1/2 gal per plant) every other day but the cloth pots dry out fast (maybe too fast). If the self-waterers are slow on the uptake, watering will become tiresome but, I guess you can still water from the top, right?

Yeah, you can still water from top like a normal pot, but then you have the option to fill bottom as well for extra security. The jury is still out for me (on my tomato plant), but so far so good.

I've had a couple days close to 100deg F outside the last week or so. So I watered the tomato plant, and filled bottom of res with water. The plant didn't go anywhere near drying out, which was great. I figure that on cooler days, I'll just water top. But if I'm out of town, or its really hot, I'll fill bottom reservoir too.

 

[Minitiger]

Wow, all awesome stuff! Let me just say why I'm going with The Rev's style TLO grow technique:

I'm just finishing my 4th indoor grow, and have been experimenting with Organic Soil techniques. I started biting off more than I could chew... trying to design my own soil, trying No-Till, living worms, compost teas... etc.. I've had a mixed bag of success and failure. There is just SOOOO much info on the web, everyone has a different technique or opinion, and I was spending countless hours reading the interwebs to gather info (you all know...). With the Rev's book True Living Organics, I was able to sit down and read it in 5 days, and there is a step by step plan. No stone left un-turned, which was a breath of fresh air. I don't believe this to be the END-ALL, but I'm hoping it will be a good jumping off point.

My plan is to use his techniques EXACTLY as he has laid out in his book, find a good homeostasis, and start working from there. I truly believe that a lot of his amendments can be cut out, but I don't want to jump ahead of myself. Yet. So we'll see how it all plays out.

@Organikz Thanks so much for all the links and notes. I had one question though... you mentioned enzyme drinks. This is something I'm very interested in, but I have not been able to figure out WHY these are added. Do you know "what" the enzymes are doing exactly?


Anyone tried using Pumice as a perlite alternative? From what I understand, it doesn't break down like perlite but performs similarly.


I've heard that shroom growing teaches one how to pay attention to the details ;)

Yeah, that's the thing about the Rev's mix/style of growing: you have to do it EXACTLY the way he does it or something's gonna go wrong. That's why I probably wouldn't be using things like sprouted seed teas (enzymes) and stuff (unless he's started using those in his updated soil mix; I haven't seen the second edition of his book, just the first edition). I would just do things exactly like he does.

The reason you're not seeing much activity in your teas is because the Rev's teas are, uh..... unconventional? I don't wanna be a dick because it's the Rev who got me into organic growing in the first place, via his articles in Skunk. I think he genuinely cares about growing good cannabis, breeding good hybrids and isn't out to make a quick buck. I love his enthusiasm. He's also a suuuuuper-helpful dude. I'm actually growing one of his El Jefe Thais right now and had a couple questions for him, so I emailed him via KOS' website and he got right back to me, exchanged a few emails with him and I really was shocked at how quickly he responded. Having said that, his compost teas are kind of a joke and require waaaayyyyyy too many inputs. Doesn't he brew his compost teas for like 72 hours or something? You're not gonna see a whole hell of a lot of activity in a tea brewed for that long.

And, like you said, his mix is ridiculously expensive. It's fine for him, he's always getting free shit sent to him in the mail to test out and review haha, but for us Regular Folk.... There are definitely much, much cheaper mixes you can make that require fewer inputs and work really, really well. And you don't really need to cook them, either. Although I do always let mine sit for a couple weeks when I make a new batch, just to be safe and let the microlife have a time to balance itself out.

Are you gonna document your grow here? I'd be really, really interested to see someone other than the Rev use his methods. I'm not doubting that it won't produce spectacular weed for you, I just wanna see someone other than the Rev grow using his style. I've literally never seen one TLO grow online (and I've looked!), so it'd be pretty cool to see how it turns out for you.

 

[Perception]

Yeah, that's the thing about the Rev's mix/style of growing: you have to do it EXACTLY the way he does it or something's gonna go wrong. That's why I probably wouldn't be using things like sprouted seed teas (enzymes) and stuff (unless he's started using those in his updated soil mix; I haven't seen the second edition of his book, just the first edition). I would just do things exactly like he does.

The reason you're not seeing much activity in your teas is because the Rev's teas are, uh..... unconventional? I don't wanna be a dick because it's the Rev who got me into organic growing in the first place, via his articles in Skunk. I think he genuinely cares about growing good cannabis, breeding good hybrids and isn't out to make a quick buck. I love his enthusiasm. He's also a suuuuuper-helpful dude. I'm actually growing one of his El Jefe Thais right now and had a couple questions for him, so I emailed him via KOS' website and he got right back to me, exchanged a few emails with him and I really was shocked at how quickly he responded. Having said that, his compost teas are kind of a joke and require waaaayyyyyy too many inputs. Doesn't he brew his compost teas for like 72 hours or something? You're not gonna see a whole hell of a lot of activity in a tea brewed for that long.

And, like you said, his mix is ridiculously expensive. It's fine for him, he's always getting free shit sent to him in the mail to test out and review haha, but for us Regular Folk.... There are definitely much, much cheaper mixes you can make that require fewer inputs and work really, really well. And you don't really need to cook them, either. Although I do always let mine sit for a couple weeks when I make a new batch, just to be safe and let the microlife have a time to balance itself out.

Are you gonna document your grow here? I'd be really, really interested to see someone other than the Rev use his methods. I'm not doubting that it won't produce spectacular weed for you, I just wanna see someone other than the Rev grow using his style. I've literally never seen one TLO grow online (and I've looked!), so it'd be pretty cool to see how it turns out for you.

I'll do a grow log when I start mine, but I'm a few months away due to travel plans around Labor Day. in the mean time we have @goingtoguano in the middle of his his 100% Rev/TLO grow, so hopefully we'll see how that goes!

In regards to my compost teas, what I was referencing was for my conventional teas I've been doing (not the Revs recipes). I've been following Tim Wilson and Elaine Inghams recipes. Starting a new brew tomorrow with fish hydrolsat, no molasses, and some Good compost. Will see how it goes!

 

[goingtoguano]

Yeah, that's the thing about the Rev's mix/style of growing: you have to do it EXACTLY the way he does it or something's gonna go wrong. That's why I probably wouldn't be using things like sprouted seed teas (enzymes) and stuff (unless he's started using those in his updated soil mix; I haven't seen the second edition of his book, just the first edition). I would just do things exactly like he does.

The reason you're not seeing much activity in your teas is because the Rev's teas are, uh..... unconventional? I don't wanna be a dick because it's the Rev who got me into organic growing in the first place, via his articles in Skunk. I think he genuinely cares about growing good cannabis, breeding good hybrids and isn't out to make a quick buck. I love his enthusiasm. He's also a suuuuuper-helpful dude. I'm actually growing one of his El Jefe Thais right now and had a couple questions for him, so I emailed him via KOS' website and he got right back to me, exchanged a few emails with him and I really was shocked at how quickly he responded. Having said that, his compost teas are kind of a joke and require waaaayyyyyy too many inputs. Doesn't he brew his compost teas for like 72 hours or something? You're not gonna see a whole hell of a lot of activity in a tea brewed for that long.

And, like you said, his mix is ridiculously expensive. It's fine for him, he's always getting free shit sent to him in the mail to test out and review haha, but for us Regular Folk.... There are definitely much, much cheaper mixes you can make that require fewer inputs and work really, really well. And you don't really need to cook them, either. Although I do always let mine sit for a couple weeks when I make a new batch, just to be safe and let the microlife have a time to balance itself out.

Are you gonna document your grow here? I'd be really, really interested to see someone other than the Rev use his methods. I'm not doubting that it won't produce spectacular weed for you, I just wanna see someone other than the Rev grow using his style. I've literally never seen one TLO grow online (and I've looked!), so it'd be pretty cool to see how it turns out for you.

I will document the rest of my grow here. There may not be much to say as I am basically just watering them every other day with RO water unless things go bad but, so far so good.
I did give them their first Tea last night. It was the Revs flowering tea. ..except (here we go right?) I didn't use any Fox Farm Big Bloom, Humes Gardening Blend, insect frass, or bee pollen but, all those items are optional (so I am still by the book).
Tomorrow night I plan to give them a little of his flowering top dressing and top that off with a little more mulch and, water them again. I am hoping that will suffice to get them through flowering except for one last finishing tea a few weeks before harvest.
Here is a new picture after 8 days of 12/12. Basically the same but more pistils and bigger. It turned out I only had one male so, I have 6 plants in this 39^2" tent and that is maximum per adult here and it is pretty tight in there anyway.
I have a second batch of his soil 2.2 "cooking". I threw it together like 6 weeks ago only because I still have all the amendments and just needed some more base soil ingredients so I figured I might as well get it doing it's thing early. The thermometer still shows it 5f degrees hotter than the room temperature.
I'll throw up a new picture every week.

 

[Minitiger]

I will document the rest of my grow here. There may not be much to say as I am basically just watering them every other day with RO water unless things go bad but, so far so good.
I did give them their first Tea last night. It was the Revs flowering tea. ..except (here we go right?) I didn't use any Fox Farm Big Bloom, Humes Gardening Blend, insect frass, or bee pollen but, all those items are optional (so I am still by the book).
Tomorrow night I plan to give them a little of his flowering top dressing and top that off with a little more mulch and, water them again. I am hoping that will suffice to get them through flowering except for one last finishing tea a few weeks before harvest.
Here is a new picture after 8 days of 12/12. Basically the same but more pistils and bigger. It turned out I only had one male so, I have 6 plants in this 39^2" tent and that is maximum per adult here and it is pretty tight in there anyway.
I have a second batch of his soil 2.2 "cooking". I threw it together like 6 weeks ago only because I still have all the amendments and just needed some more base soil ingredients so I figured I might as well get it doing it's thing early. The thermometer still shows it 5f degrees hotter than the room temperature.
I'll throw up a new picture every week.

Sweet! Looking forward to it. What strains are you growing?

 

[goingtoguano]

(2)Afghani#1 ( the tall gals in the back corners)
(1) Himalayan kush (back row middle)
(1) Kiwi Gangster ( front left)
(1) lemon Og fem (front center)
(1) northern lights fem ( front right)

 

[goingtoguano]

Week 2 of flower, TLO -The Rev style update:
Things still going strong although I am concerned about the center-back plant (kush) where the very top leaves are curling down and droopy. I'm not sure the reason but I ordered another fan to increase circulation as that plant is somewhat shielded from the air coming from my existing fan (lights are in the way). It is supposed to arrive today.
I also hope they are about done stretching as I am out of room to raise the lights. I could remove the pulleys all together and I do have 2" of foam insulation under them from the last winter grow so, I could squeak out another 5-6" if needed. It is not easy to remove the ladies from the tent now though and I broke a shoot off the last time I did.

 

[jumpincactus]

yeah, I'm wondering how things will pan out (cost-wise) over the long term once I start recycling soil. I think it was around $300 to get everything I needed to start, and would have been more had I not already had a few items.

In his updated & revised book, he claims that he worked hard to trim down the number of amendments, so you might want to check it out if you are still growing TLO. Could save you some $ & effort. Although, I never saw the first edition recipes, so can't really speak from experience!

The intial cost up front is a bit of a hit. But one you get rolling and get in ROLS (recycled organic living soil) a version of TLO you will find your cost come down. After you start recycling you will find you need much less input from amendments, especially if your are using cover cropping and no till in your source materials. and if you have access to or compost your own compost this helps as well.

 

[Perception]

Week 2 of flower, TLO -The Rev style update:
Things still going strong although I am concerned about the center-back plant (kush) where the very top leaves are curling down and droopy. I'm not sure the reason but I ordered another fan to increase circulation as that plant is somewhat shielded from the air coming from my existing fan (lights are in the way). It is supposed to arrive today.
I also hope they are about done stretching as I am out of room to raise the lights. I could remove the pulleys all together and I do have 2" of foam insulation under them from the last winter grow so, I could squeak out another 5-6" if needed. It is not easy to remove the ladies from the tent now though and I broke a shoot off the last time I did.

The exact same thing happened to me with the stretch on my second grow (coincidently). At two weeks in to flower, my space was maxed out so I cut roughly 12" off of each plant. It worked out great, and they even ended up filling that space again! But it was enough room in the end.

I don't know if that is good practice or not (topping plants 2 weeks in to flower), as I did it out of necessity , but it worked for me.

Those plants did produce a lot of hermaphroditic flowers though, and I got a lot of seeds, although I think I was stressing the poor things in more ways than one. If you consider it, you might want to try and get feedback on flower topping from some of the more experienced members first.

 

[jumpincactus]

The genetics may have been unstable adding to the hermies, but I am inclined to think it was topping aggressively 2 weeks into flower that caused it.

 

[goingtoguano]

The exact same thing happened to me with the stretch on my second grow (coincidently). At two weeks in to flower, my space was maxed out so I cut roughly 12" off of each plant. It worked out great, and they even ended up filling that space again! But it was enough room in the end.

I don't know if that is good practice or not (topping plants 2 weeks in to flower), as I did it out of necessity , but it worked for me.

Those plants did produce a lot of hermaphroditic flowers though, and I got a lot of seeds, although I think I was stressing the poor things in more ways than one. If you consider it, you might want to try and get feedback on flower topping from some of the more experienced members first.

I don't think I am in that much trouble yet, as long as they slow down soon. It is really just the two afghan babes- they need to calm their jets. They are only 8ish" below the light but they seem to love it, the rest of the canopy is 14-15" from the light in fact, I have 2 (both the feminized girls) are on 3" booster-seats to even out the canopy.
My last(first) grow under the crappy vipar LEDs they were pretty much done stretching after the first couple weeks of 12/12 so I am hopeful everything will work out. If I have too, I will tie them down.

 

[goingtoguano]

Week 3 of flower, TLO -The Rev style update ( a day early, @ 20days):

The ladies are progressing nicely- starting to look frosty.
The shorter plants are propped up to even the canopy.
Just add water.

 

[Minitiger]

Week 3 of flower, TLO -The Rev style update ( a day early, @ 20days):

The ladies are progressing nicely- starting to look frosty.
The shorter plants are propped up to even the canopy.
Just add water.

Yes! I was wondering how your grow was progressing. Good to see that things are looking stellar. Keep it up, @goingtoguano !

 

[Organikz]

The exact same thing happened to me with the stretch on my second grow (coincidently). At two weeks in to flower, my space was maxed out so I cut roughly 12" off of each plant. It worked out great, and they even ended up filling that space again! But it was enough room in the end.

I don't know if that is good practice or not (topping plants 2 weeks in to flower), as I did it out of necessity , but it worked for me.

Those plants did produce a lot of hermaphroditic flowers though, and I got a lot of seeds, although I think I was stressing the poor things in more ways than one. If you consider it, you might want to try and get feedback on flower topping from some of the more experienced members first.

I have been reading the one straw revolution. Masanobu explains any stresses will have an effect on yields. Plants grow best in natural form. He even knows about how much rice per square foot of leaf mass will be yielded.

You can affect yield by removing leaves of any sort once flowering begins however leaf strip training is very effective if done correctly during veg. It would simulate a pest attack. Leave all lower most leaves only.

I'm just rethinking training. Adds an extra month just to push a little more out when in this time you could have another round ready for a bloom.

My experience is that getting a plant through its life cycle as efficiently as possible is the way to go. The longer a plant exists the more chances it will suffer from disease or pestilence and yields will suffer anyhow.

My nickel minus 3 pennies.

 

[Perception]

I have been reading the one straw revolution. Masanobu explains any stresses will have an effect on yields. Plants grow best in natural form. He even knows about how much rice per square foot of leaf mass will be yielded.

You can affect yield by removing leaves of any sort once flowering begins however leaf strip training is very effective if done correctly during veg. It would simulate a pest attack. Leave all lower most leaves only.

I'm just rethinking training. Adds an extra month just to push a little more out when in this time you could have another round ready for a bloom.

My experience is that getting a plant through its life cycle as efficiently as possible is the way to go. The longer a plant exists the more chances it will suffer from disease or pestilence and yields will suffer anyhow.

My nickel minus 3 pennies.

One Straw Revolution literally changed how I look at life. I apply his philosophy to every thing I can in life. Such a great book.

You are so right about the stresses though.

 

[Organikz]

One Straw Revolution literally changed how I look at life. I apply his philosophy to every thing I can in life. Such a great book.

You are so right about the stresses though.

Literally has opened my eyes. Especially in regards to human interaction. I own a small business so this is day to day obviously. I'm learning to not get upset when in disagreement and understand every man focuses on one aspect of the big picture so theres no need to waste your energy to make them understand.

If it's out of your control why concern yourself.