Post your Organic Soil Mix

[jumpincactus]

I used to keep a reef tank also which is why I'm concerned with these chemicals destroying the 'life' in my soil, assuming I've done it correctly to get the life there in the first place. I found a filter that removes nearly all of the chlorine and chloamine for about $100 with no waste water. I'll probably just grab one of those so I don't have to worry about it.



The argument was that organics take longer to become available to the plant and thus a larger volume of soil will give the plant more area to collect needed nutrients from versus being in a small container (with plenty of nutrients in the soil) and the plant having to wait for more nutrients to become available.

Uh ok, this makes sense.

 

[THELORAX802]

Yep I got you shit I could never afford that I'm going to get my wife to order and have sent some Fox farm growing media she is in the states at the moment we can't get it over here heard great things about it .

Actually here in the states if one lives or has the gumption to research local universities , most will offer soil tests for folks. At least on the east coast its a common practice. I am a firm believer in utilizing compost piles/vermicompost amendments.

 

[Hyman]

Thanks for the response. Nice and simple I like this. How long should I let it ride before using?

Only thing would need to cook would be cow manure if you're getting it fresh, if getting in a bag, mix is ready to go, no cooking required.

 

[Kalikush]

I'm running into a bit of a pH issue with my soil mix, it's coming in at 7.2-7.3 and everything is suffering. I overwatered them a bit too so I've got my hands full. I suspect I could have added a bit more oyster shell flour and that my Roots Organic EWC weren't the best way to kick off the microbial action when I cooked the soil. Anyways, what should I do now?

I'm going to use lemon juice to adjust the pH when I water, unless there's a better organic solution to pH down.

Can I topdress with some oyster shell flour to help correct the soil? Any idea how much to use for 1 gallon pots?

I would brew an EWC tea but I'm still working out when these pots are dry and my timing has been off on having teas ready when the pots need water so I'll probably sprinkle some EWC(from a local work guy) on top for the next water.

Here's my soil mix:

1/3 (1/2 promix & 1/2 coco) + 1/3 organic rice hulls + 1/3 (1/2 Roots organic earth worm castings + 1/2 G&B organic compost)

For each cubic foot of the above, I added these amendments: 1/2c organic neem seed meal, 1/2c organic kelp meal, 1/2c organic insect frass, 4c mineral dust ( 1/2 glacial rock dust, 1/6 organic oyster shell, 1/6 organic basalt, 1/6 of green sand). I added some gypsum too.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll probably use bottled nutes until I get things stablizied a bit but I'm not giving up on organics yet.

 

[One drop]

Ph down with vinegar

 

[Kalikush]

Forgot to add that I've got room for about 1.5" of something in the tops of the pots so I'll probably add Happy Frog since it pH's perfect and hope that helps stabilize my mix.

 

[Seamaiden]

If you have high pH issues, adding something like oyster shell flour will only make things worse. Look for and avoid anything that has CO3 (carbonate) as part of the molecule, this is where the issues arise. You need some, but not a lot. Based on the issues you're having, I think you may be doing yourself a favor if you go with RO water instead of tap (can't recall which you're using). This will reduce the issue of pH bounce due to alkalinity.

IME with California's hard water, trying to push pH down with vinegar is about as effective as pissing in the ocean. You have to use a LOT. I have gone back to good old phosphoric acid, it's what I use in my aquaponics system, so I know for a fact it's safe. I don't believe it's approved for organic use, but you're growing in pots. When it breaks down you'll get some extra P in the deal.

 

[Homesteader]

I would add 100% peat to bring down your pH. Ussually has a pH of 5.4-5.6. If your pH is 7.2 then add a healthy amount then go nuts with oyster shell if you want.

 

[Kalikush]

If you have high pH issues, adding something like oyster shell flour will only make things worse. Look for and avoid anything that has CO3 (carbonate) as part of the molecule, this is where the issues arise. You need some, but not a lot. Based on the issues you're having, I think you may be doing yourself a favor if you go with RO water instead of tap (can't recall which you're using). This will reduce the issue of pH bounce due to alkalinity.

IME with California's hard water, trying to push pH down with vinegar is about as effective as pissing in the ocean. You have to use a LOT. I have gone back to good old phosphoric acid, it's what I use in my aquaponics system, so I know for a fact it's safe. I don't believe it's approved for organic use, but you're growing in pots. When it breaks down you'll get some extra P in the deal.

Funny you mention RO water, I had one but didn't like how much waste water it created and I didn't have an easy way to dirvert it to a lawn or something so I found a 2 stage chlorine/chloramine filter that I've been using. I just made some more water this morning and out of the 4 gallons I made, the pH ranged from 8.3(same as tap) up to 9 so somethings not right here.

Look into phosphoric acid but it may be too much effort for such a small garden

I would add 100% peat to bring down your pH. Ussually has a pH of 5.4-5.6. If your pH is 7.2 then add a healthy amount then go nuts with oyster shell if you want.

All I can find is Promix it I know it's buffered all ready. Do you think this would at least help? I'm guessing I'll have to repot the clones in order to get more pear into the mix

 

[Homesteader]

home depot or lowes spaghnum peat? should be easy to find. I wouldn't use Pro mix to bring the pH down but its up to you. It would help with the pH but may require much more and dilute your amendments of your original soil too much.

 

[One drop]

Ph your water down with vinegar

 

[Seamaiden]

It'll bounce back though. Especially if the pH is coming up to 9, that's some hard, alkaline water. He'll have to dump a qualified metric shit-ton of vinegar in there unless he has concentrated vinegar. If he can get it pushed down to about 4 or so, then the bounce should take him to an acceptable range, but when I did it with my well water I had to use a LOT of vinegar and my plants didn't like it. Dry citric acid is more effective, but if he's using live microbes it'll kill them.

Last ditch effort to soften and acidify water without the waste of RO is to filter it through peat moss. IME this takes a while, like days to weeks. You can see if you can speed up the process by first determining if your water hardness is permanent or temporary. Temporary can be boiled out, about 10mins or so, then pour off the water at the top and leave all the mulm behind, THEN filter that through the peat moss.

 

[keiksweat]

hi sea,how you liking the new digs???
and how's the desert treating you..did you get the aquaponics going well again?

 

[Kalikush]

home depot or lowes spaghnum peat? should be easy to find. I wouldn't use Pro mix to bring the pH down but its up to you. It would help with the pH but may require much more and dilute your amendments of your original soil too much.

Ok I'll look around and see what I can find. Any idea though if it was my soil mix or just the fact that I was using such high ph water?

Ph your water down with vinegar

That worked, 5ml took 3 gallons to about 6.5.

It'll bounce back though. Especially if the pH is coming up to 9, that's some hard, alkaline water. He'll have to dump a qualified metric shit-ton of vinegar in there unless he has concentrated vinegar. If he can get it pushed down to about 4 or so, then the bounce should take him to an acceptable range, but when I did it with my well water I had to use a LOT of vinegar and my plants didn't like it. Dry citric acid is more effective, but if he's using live microbes it'll kill them.

Last ditch effort to soften and acidify water without the waste of RO is to filter it through peat moss. IME this takes a while, like days to weeks. You can see if you can speed up the process by first determining if your water hardness is permanent or temporary. Temporary can be boiled out, about 10mins or so, then pour off the water at the top and leave all the mulm behind, THEN filter that through the peat moss.

lol luckily it didn't take much white kitchen vinegar to neutralize my water and get it into the normal range ~6.5. I've never had to PH down my water to 4 but will that kill my all ready weakened plants if I make it that extreme? I can go with that on the rest of the soil and try to balance that before using it. I'm still not sure if it was just my soil mix or using the high ph water that did it but I'll get a ph'd microbe tea going and pour that into the bucket of soil I have left to hopefully balance what's left.

 

[One drop]

Ok I'll look around and see what I can find. Any idea though if it was my soil mix or just the fact that I was using such high ph water?



That worked, 5ml took 3 gallons to about 6.5.



lol luckily it didn't take much white kitchen vinegar to neutralize my water and get it into the normal range ~6.5. I've never had to PH down my water to 4 but will that kill my all ready weakened plants if I make it that extreme? I can go with that on the rest of the soil and try to balance that before using it. I'm still not sure if it was just my soil mix or using the high ph water that did it but I'll get a ph'd microbe tea going and pour that into the bucket of soil I have left to hopefully balance what's left.

Yes you need very little to do the job or use lemon juice as well .

 

[Kalikush]

I'm thinking my plan is to pH the water to about 5.8-6.0 for my next water and use like 1/4 strength bottled nutes since they are showing so many deficiencies due to pH lockout. Would you guys flush the soil with the pH'd water first then finish with some of the pH'd nute solution? I'm ok to use the bottled nutes until I transplant into 3gal pots if I have to, but wouldn't there still be plenty of my organic amendments(I'll try and time out an EWC tea for a microbe boost or get some packaged microbes) left to break down for another month or so? Thanks for the help everyone, my clones look really pissed off but they're hanging in there. I must have used the high pH water in my IPM spray too, I'm surprised they are still alive!

 

[Seamaiden]

lol luckily it didn't take much white kitchen vinegar to neutralize my water and get it into the normal range ~6.5. I've never had to PH down my water to 4 but will that kill my all ready weakened plants if I make it that extreme? I can go with that on the rest of the soil and try to balance that before using it. I'm still not sure if it was just my soil mix or using the high ph water that did it but I'll get a ph'd microbe tea going and pour that into the bucket of soil I have left to hopefully balance what's left.

Pushing the pH down that hard is what I've found is necessary in very hard, alkaline (resistant to pH shift) water. If you didn't need much vinegar then that suggests your water isn't very hard at all. Pushing down to 4 accounts for the bounce I was talking about (resistance to pH shift). Typically what I've observed, specifically with my California hard water (I've done So and Nor Cal) is that if you pH it to where you want, it'll bounce back up, often 2pts+. Then you have to add more acid, then it bounces, then add more, bounces, you get the picture. I've found that if I pH to 4, when it bounces I get it to where I want it.

So, yes, giving your plants water at a pH of 4 will kill them.

If you only needed 5mls to push it down to 6.5, then IMO you have very soft water.

 

[Kalikush]

Pushing the pH down that hard is what I've found is necessary in very hard, alkaline (resistant to pH shift) water. If you didn't need much vinegar then that suggests your water isn't very hard at all. Pushing down to 4 accounts for the bounce I was talking about (resistance to pH shift). Typically what I've observed, specifically with my California hard water (I've done So and Nor Cal) is that if you pH it to where you want, it'll bounce back up, often 2pts+. Then you have to add more acid, then it bounces, then add more, bounces, you get the picture. I've found that if I pH to 4, when it bounces I get it to where I want it.

So, yes, giving your plants water at a pH of 4 will kill them.

If you only needed 5mls to push it down to 6.5, then IMO you have very soft water.

Thanks @Seamaiden! I really appreciate all the help with the organics. I did notice the bounce you were talking about but only by maybe .2 or so and that could easily could be my pH meter. I'll check again tonight and try dropping the pH some more, add to some test soil and take some measurements. I'm glad my CA water isn't as hard as you've experienced. I was thinking if I only need 5ml of vinegar for 3 gallons and you needed a metric ton, I need to quit my production manager job and come work for you lol

 

[Bulldog420]

n phuric acid works well also.

 

[Homesteader]

Heavy amendment recipe/experiment but this was my quest to look local an on the cheap. Getting fast growth and the oak seedling seems happy too. On the CO2 end of it, I am only drawing about 1000 ppm with 100 gallons more soil than previous recipe. I suspect partly due to the reduced carbonates but still too early to know.

6 Lbs gypsum
4 Lbs Soybean Meal
Bone Char
(forgot how much bone char I added but it was probably about a lb written down somewhere)
5 lbs Kelp Meal
20 gallons of oak litter (leaves,twigs taken from forest floor)
2 large bales of 100% peat
4 lbs crab shell
20 gallons rice hull
5 gallons EWC