Please help, mystery issue that I cannot solve….. driving me insane

[TheCoatimundi]

So to make a very long story short my grow has gone from on top of the world to a complete disaster, I’ve spent months on end checking all variables with not a positive result in sight. Some insight into the build I run 12 hps bulbs at 500-750w depending on stage in life in a completely airtight sealed room, co2 supplementation at 1000ppm and I’m always on top of my vpd and environmental factors. Growing in 70/30 coco coir. All I have to show for it are crisped up leaves and a yield that is 1/5 of what this room used to produce. I don’t consider myself the best grower on the planet at all but I’m certainly not a novice this is just an issue that no matter how much I research and read nothing leads me in the right direction. Please help any more info I will gladly supply.

 

[growsince79]

Scope for mites?

 

[TheCoatimundi]

Sadly no mites, I wish that was the case this would’ve been resolved long ago.

 

[Aqua Man]

The leaf screams potassium deficiency but the cause i cant say.

Source of co2? have rarely seen ethylene poisoning cause similar.

some pics of the plants?

size of pots?

watering practice’s?

nutrients used and any amendments ?

 

[TheCoatimundi]

The source of co2 has always been a tank with titan regulator and titan controller. I even went as far as replacing both with the same suspicion of ethylene. Although to my knowledge a tank and regulator don’t off gas anything.

Pots are 7gals, watering practices are old school I do hand water but I’ve been hand watering for years with great results elsewhere. Again I’m not the worlds greatest but I am confident with my ability to feel out and know when a plant needs watering.

Nutrients I run are Athena pro line salts at 1.5ec along with cleanse a hypochlorous acid product they have in order to keep the roots clean and healthy.

This is the only photo I have currently of the room but any details needed I can provide. I think it is worth noting this is a basement and there is a furnace, hot water heater, dryer etc outside the parameter of the room.

 

[Aqua Man]

The source of co2 has always been a tank with titan regulator and titan controller. I even went as far as replacing both with the same suspicion of ethylene. Although to my knowledge a tank and regulator don’t off gas anything.

Pots are 7gals, watering practices are old school I do hand water but I’ve been hand watering for years with great results elsewhere. Again I’m not the worlds greatest but I am confident with my ability to feel out and know when a plant needs watering.

Nutrients I run are Athena pro line salts at 1.5ec along with cleanse a hypochlorous acid product they have in order to keep the roots clean and healthy.

This is the only photo I have currently of the room but any details needed I can provide. I think it is worth noting this is a basement and there is a furnace, hot water heater, dryer etc outside the parameter of the room.

Your right tank wont produce ethylene. But any of those otger gas appliances could… especially if they have not been serviced because as a burner deteriorates or become less efficient they produce more ethylene and that is a plant hormone. Im not saying its the cause just adding to the suspect list.

have you taken any runoff measurements by chance?

im assuming with 7gal at 70/30 your watering more inline with soil?

have you noticed a decline in watering needs at any point and if so any idea to the changes around that time?

are these genetics from clone or seed and have you run them before? Markey is seeing wuite a bit of viruses these days

 

[TheCoatimundi]

I will look into the gas appliances my furnace and hot water heater are fairly new within the last couple years but the dryer is aged.

I have taken ec measurements but I do get good runoff with every feed so it’s never anything more than slightly higher what the input is .1-.5

I do feed comparable to soil I would say yes.

I have seen a decline in need for water and a decline in need for co2 I say that bc while other places my tanks had always been clicking on and off frequently, I never see that in this room it’s to the point where spending time in the room will actually increase the co2 on account of my breathing it seems they’re just not taking in very much.

These genetics are from clone I’ve run them elsewhere and even given them out to other growers in my community and they perform very well continuously.

 

[Aqua Man]

I will look into the gas appliances my furnace and hot water heater are fairly new within the last couple years but the dryer is aged.

I have taken ec measurements but I do get good runoff with every feed so it’s never anything more than slightly higher what the input is .1-.5

I do feed comparable to soil I would say yes.

I have seen a decline in need for water and a decline in need for co2 I say that bc while other places my tanks had always been clicking on and off frequently, I never see that in this room it’s to the point where spending time in the room will actually increase the co2 on account of my breathing it seems they’re just not taking in very much.

These genetics are from clone I’ve run them elsewhere and even given them out to other growers in my community and they perform very well continuously.

I have a feeling this is gonna be a tough one… is it consistently an issue in this room or is this the first time?

sorry if im asking what seem to be irrelevant questions but i dont think this is a run of the mill problem from what info you have given

 

[Anthem]

I will look into the gas appliances my furnace and hot water heater are fairly new within the last couple years but the dryer is aged.

I have taken ec measurements but I do get good runoff with every feed so it’s never anything more than slightly higher what the input is .1-.5

I do feed comparable to soil I would say yes.

I have seen a decline in need for water and a decline in need for co2 I say that bc while other places my tanks had always been clicking on and off frequently, I never see that in this room it’s to the point where spending time in the room will actually increase the co2 on account of my breathing it seems they’re just not taking in very much.

These genetics are from clone I’ve run them elsewhere and even given them out to other growers in my community and they perform very well continuously.

How many grows have you completed in the room?
Do you grow year round?
Have you experienced cooler temps than normal for your area this year?

 

[Aqua Man]

Also do you have the ability to exchange air?

 

[TheCoatimundi]

This room is about 3 years old now the first two years were a growers dream couldn’t have asked for more, last year was a complete nightmare. I’d say I’ve completed about 15-20 grows in this room the last 4-5 or so have encountered the same issue no matter what I try and change or what equipment I suspect might be at fault. My area has not really encountered cooler temps than usual, no. I do not have any ability to exchange air wether in be intake or exhaust but this is not the first room I’ve designed like this. I’ve designed many for others and this is the only one to encounter this issue. Believe it or not many people call upon me for help lol but I’m at a loss at this point and just looking for any insight before I call it quits.

 

[Anthem]

This room is about 3 years old now the first two years were a growers dream couldn’t have asked for more, last year was a complete nightmare. I’d say I’ve completed about 15-20 grows in this room the last 4-5 or so have encountered the same issue no matter what I try and change or what equipment I suspect might be at fault. My area has not really encountered cooler temps than usual, no. I do not have any ability to exchange air wether in be intake or exhaust but this is not the first room I’ve designed like this. I’ve designed many for others and this is the only one to encounter this issue. Believe it or not many people call upon me for help lol but I’m at a loss at this point and just looking for any insight before I call it quits.

Are you running clones that veg in another area and drop them into here your flower room?
If so at what point after moving into this room do they start to take a turn for the worse?

 

[Aqua Man]

This room is about 3 years old now the first two years were a growers dream couldn’t have asked for more, last year was a complete nightmare. I’d say I’ve completed about 15-20 grows in this room the last 4-5 or so have encountered the same issue no matter what I try and change or what equipment I suspect might be at fault. My area has not really encountered cooler temps than usual, no. I do not have any ability to exchange air wether in be intake or exhaust but this is not the first room I’ve designed like this. I’ve designed many for others and this is the only one to encounter this issue. Believe it or not many people call upon me for help lol but I’m at a loss at this point and just looking for any insight before I call it quits.

Ok so here are my thoughts behind the questions.

if you could swap to air exchange it would eliminate ethylene issues that may be caused outside the room.

i have absolutely 0 doubt as to your claims and thats why i say its going to be something outside the box from the traditional diagnosis. I also run sealed rooms with no ventilation.

i have seen growers go years with issues they cannot pinpoint from root aphids as they are dam near impossible to conclusively find.

if they are consistently showing signs of senescence i would look to some equipment outside the room producing ethylene because it take very little to cause issues.

the next would be root aphids

and I would definitely try a complete flush with 2.0 EC athena feeding 1-2x the pot volume each. I usually suggest 3x but with 7 gal that’s probably just too much work. Measure the ppm and ph of the runoff for any clues

are you reusing the coco?

 

[Homesteader]

Water source? Sodium salt does similar to potassium. City switch something?

 

[Aqua Man]

Water source? Sodium salt does similar to potassium. City switch something?

another good outside the box point… has the municipality switched sources of buffers? Say from calcium carbonate to sodium bicarbonate

 

[Aqua Man]

If using RO when where the filters changed last? No water softener add etc? Any changes at all to source water

 

[TheCoatimundi]

I will look into ventilation and air exchange to try and rule ethylene out of the equation.

The water source is city water it comes in at about 150ppm or .2ec, as far as what’s in it or if they’ve changed anything as far as buffers anyone’s guess is as good as mine. I do run air stones for quite some time in the water beforehand to try and off gas some of the chlorine the city may be putting in it. Worth knowing that my friends all throughout the city have no issue with water whatsoever.

 

[TheCoatimundi]

I will be looking into a good filter to try and get that out of the equation as well.

 

[TheCoatimundi]

I apologize I forgot to mention that I don’t see root aphids being a problem I know that they are hard to diagnose but I’ve also seen them elsewhere and am always on the lookout for pests, I will try a good flush. I am not reusing the coco, no.

 

[Aqua Man]

I will look into ventilation and air exchange to try and rule ethylene out of the equation.

The water source is city water it comes in at about 150ppm or .2ec, as far as what’s in it or if they’ve changed anything as far as buffers anyone’s guess is as good as mine. I do run air stones for quite some time in the water beforehand to try and off gas some of the chlorine the city may be putting in it. Worth knowing that my friends all throughout the city have no issue with water whatsoever.

Chlorine is not an issue the max allowance is 4 ppm and most supplies are a 1ppm aerating wont help these days unless your one of the very few that hasn’t made the switch to chloramine. Something you really dont need to worry about unless brewing teas.

you can google your local water report to get the makeup of the water. i would suggest it, most will be last years but thats fine. You want to see sodium under 20ppm