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*NERD ALERT* Using AI for data set trend analysis

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*NERD ALERT* Using AI for data set trend analysis

Brother_Antioch 49 Replies 5,094 Views
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Brother_Antioch

Brother_Antioch

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#1
Afternoon, folks.

Just wondering if any of you have dabbled with using AI specifically to analyze data regarding environment and the health of your plant. Once my girl was in her DWC bucket system, I've been taking readings of the nutrient solution and the environmental parameters 3 times daily and logging it into a spreadsheet program on my PC. (Yes, I wear reading glasses. No, I don't have a white lab coat or a pocket protector). Basically, I make my usual written logs in a notebook that stays beside my tent. Then, I transfer those numbers to the spreadsheet, save it as a .csv file, and upload it to an AI program. At first, this was working amazingly well! I just used Gemini AI that is built into my Chrome browser. However, after a week of this working like a charm, suddenly it gives me answers like, "Sorry, I can't help you grow cannabis" or "Sorry, I don't recognize that file type". Seems to me it's hit or miss with Gemini. So, I tried Grok AI. That seemed to work even better, giving me visual charts based on the trends it was reading from the .csv files...until I reached some magic number and it said, "You've reached your limit. Try again in 4 hours or pay $30 USD/mo." And in 8 hours it said "You've reached your limit. Try again in 4 hours" as a response to my first post...not ideal.

I've been reading up on some pot-specific AI programs, such as Hempie, but it seems it's not quite capable of what I'm looking for. For now, I've found a work around using the Gemini AI by taking a screenshot of the .csv file and uploading it as a .jpg image file. This seems to work, as the AI then looks at the entire set of data points and analyzes it for trends. Is anyone else using a similar style of tracking and analyzing data? I'm inputting the following data into the spreadsheet:

air temp
reservoir temp
humidity
VPD
PPFD
pH
PPM
EC
Light level above canopy
canopy measurements
water consumption (measuring level below lid top for a constant anchor point)
I also take pictures from directly above, from the side showing structure and an general picture to show the overall plant. When I do my res change, I also take a pic of the root system. I've included a screenshot of the spreadsheet so you know what I'm talking about.

Overboard? Probably. Necessary? Probably not. But I'm trying to run my grow as a legit science experiment, even to the point of dialing in VPD via automation on my humidifier which seems to be working perfectly and, honestly, is a game changer! So basically, if anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, comments, or is curious about any of it, I'd love to discuss it all with you. If your comment is going to be "Dude, you're wasting your time" then honestly, don't bother. As I said, I'm treating it like an experiment to come up with repeatable verified methodologies to produce consistent results. It takes me around 5 minutes, 3 times a day, and 15 minutes of my time to catch problems before they arise is well worth it, in my humble opinion.

Cheers,

BA.

Spreadsheet
 
#3
Grownsince95 said:
I don't know why Gemini gives you a problem, I can upload my CSV files directly from Google Drive and get analysis no problem. I like your thinking though! 💚
Click to expand...

Thanks! Honestly, I'm not sure why it's giving me grief either. Sometimes it will let me, other times Gemini seems to have its nose in a snit! I'd love to see a cannabis-specific AI system that delves into all the analytical aspects, as AI can access all kinds of information I don't even know exists. The work-around of taking a screen shot seems to be working those times when Gemini says, "No way, bub, I'm not playing today".

Have you ever tried any other AI programs? Ultimately, if I have to pay for a subscription to one, it had better be DAMN good at what it's supposed to do, and not give me grief over "In some parts of the world cannabis is illegal so I can't really give you direction". That got tiring very quickly, having to remind it "I live in Ontario, asshat". Also, I found if I stuck to one thread it would work okay, but the lag and response time was getting ridiculous due to the length of the thread. I'd start a new thread, and have to fight with it all over again to get it to accept my data.

*sigh*

Cheers,

BA.
 
#5
Week4Bytch said:
I'm good with just sending Gemini or Chatgpt pics asking, how we doing? 😜😂
Click to expand...
lol. Honestly, that's how it all started out. And, like most addictions, my addiction to knowledge took me from "casual questioner" to "full-blown info and data junkie". I suppose, for me, it's the ability to visually see all the trends in all the data. I can tell from a glance whether my EC is drifting slowly, spiking, whether my pH has bounced anymore than it should, etc. All that information gives me an overall sense of how the plant is doing, and more importantly, lets me see the very beginnings of an issue before it affects the plant physiologically. Instead of reacting to problems, I'm learning to prevent them from happening. The AI certainly helps a ton when it comes to analyzing the raw data, especially as the grow progresses and the list of dates grows longer and longer! I think the only addition I'll make to my charts will be to put an empty line between res changes so at a glance I can see the numbers starting from fresh solution through the 10 day run until next res change.

Again, as I said, necessary? No. Overkill? Definitely. Fun for me? Oh you wanna believe it!!!

Cheers,

BA.
 
#7
cpurola said:
Have you seen @kenb's thread?
kenb and his AI thread
Click to expand...
No, I hadn't, and thanks for bringing that to my attention! I did a thread search on using AI for data analysis, but I guess my choice of wording came up with "Nothing to see here, move along". 10 pages now, though...lol. I guess it's a good thing I've got some really good bud and picked up a 6 pack on the way home. Looks like I'll be spending most of my evening reading up on kenb's thread and seeing what I can learn from it.

It is great to see other growers with way more experience than me using it. That tells me I'm following a good path to success rather than flailing blindly in the dark with "new tech". As kenb said in the initial post, it's more of a mentor/advisor and all final decisions are made by him. I'm following the same philosophy, as I've caught the AI giving me some really bad information and suggestions, such as "Add your Silica Blast last". When I called it out on that, it replied "Good catch! Yes, you are correct, it needs to go first".

As I said, I'm aiming to use it almost strictly as an analytical engine. The sole job of the AI, for me in this particular scenario, is to scan the data sets and show me what the trends are saying. From that, I can delve off into other sources (this forum, scientific papers, respected grow blogs, etc) and see what the results mean, what needs to be addressed and how, and to double and triple check the suggestions that the AI gives. All of it, ultimately, will just make me a better grower, and isn't that what we all aim for?

Cheers,

BA.
 
#8
Here is what you can learn: it's a tool, and I've seldom looked at any tool and found no merit at all. You could pretty productively write your own analysis and then note AI's analysis and discuss the differences and get 20 pages out of it. Then again even the mighty hammer doesn't do it all. Rabbit holes though, it can provoke great reading leads, topics, that kind of thing. It gets super mad when you make a lot of Judy Hopps XXX novelas.
 
#9
ChairmanFester said:
Here is what you can learn: it's a tool, and I've seldom looked at any tool and found no merit at all. You could pretty productively write your own analysis and then note AI's analysis and discuss the differences and get 20 pages out of it. Then again even the mighty hammer doesn't do it all. Rabbit holes though, it can provoke great reading leads, topics, that kind of thing. It gets super mad when you make a lot of Judy Hopps XXX novelas though.
Click to expand...
Thinking of AI as a tool is probably the best way I've had it described. It has merit but certainly isn't a genie in a bottle. It's all about learning to truly use that tool to its maximum ability. Similar to a carpenter's square, there is about 10 things it can do that 99% of people don't know about. And then there's the 10% of people who don't know what end of a hammer to hold...lol.

Ultimately, every time it goes over the data with me in the evenings, I'm learning about how the various readings effect the plant, and how to correct them before they create even a small problem. A training tool, if you will.

Cheers,

BA.
 
#10
It got me regularly documenting on one problem grow, that sort of thing. I never felt it understood nutrition from soil to sap it was simultaneously cheery about using full nutes and additives to do everything but also very positive about minimalist living soil and depending more on microbes and bio-availability, timings, and banking versus consumption. Those are polar opposites, you kinda have to commit to one either based on how you are set up or how you will set up not willy nilly embracing both; you'll just skull fuck the microbes with some salt or other.
 
#11
ChairmanFester said:
It got me regularly documenting on one problem grow, that sort of thing. I never felt it understood nutrition from soil to sap it was simultaneously cheery about using full nutes and additives to do everything but also very positive about minimalist living soil and depending more on microbes and bio-availability, timings, and banking versus consumption. Those are polar opposites, you kinda have to commit to one either based on how you are set up or how you will set up not willy nilly embracing both; you'll just skull fuck the microbes with some salt or other.
Click to expand...
I think part of the ease for me on this grow is using distilled water in a hydro grow coupled with the automation for environment. I can control every aspect of it, which makes it pure data, pure math. That, it seems, it can work with quite easily. Ultimately, it's just (as you put it so well) another tool to help dial in a grow.

One thing I did notice, when it recommended the specific mix of nutrients for my specific grow volume, it aimed for an EC of 0.85 and we ended up at 1.12. I'm going to do my next res change on Tuesday (every 10 days) and it calculated what I'd need for the new EC target of 1.22. I questioned it whether or not it had considered the variance between target and actual EC and compensated. It answered, "Good catch!" and proceeded to re-calculate. Dropped it a fair amount. Like any tool, if you don't use it properly it won't do its job.

Cheers,

BA.
 
Last edited:
#12
Brother_Antioch said:
Afternoon, folks.

Just wondering if any of you have dabbled with using AI specifically to analyze data regarding environment and the health of your plant. Once my girl was in her DWC bucket system, I've been taking readings of the nutrient solution and the environmental parameters 3 times daily and logging it into a spreadsheet program on my PC. (Yes, I wear reading glasses. No, I don't have a white lab coat or a pocket protector). Basically, I make my usual written logs in a notebook that stays beside my tent. Then, I transfer those numbers to the spreadsheet, save it as a .csv file, and upload it to an AI program. At first, this was working amazingly well! I just used Gemini AI that is built into my Chrome browser. However, after a week of this working like a charm, suddenly it gives me answers like, "Sorry, I can't help you grow cannabis" or "Sorry, I don't recognize that file type". Seems to me it's hit or miss with Gemini. So, I tried Grok AI. That seemed to work even better, giving me visual charts based on the trends it was reading from the .csv files...until I reached some magic number and it said, "You've reached your limit. Try again in 4 hours or pay $30 USD/mo." And in 8 hours it said "You've reached your limit. Try again in 4 hours" as a response to my first post...not ideal.

I've been reading up on some pot-specific AI programs, such as Hempie, but it seems it's not quite capable of what I'm looking for. For now, I've found a work around using the Gemini AI by taking a screenshot of the .csv file and uploading it as a .jpg image file. This seems to work, as the AI then looks at the entire set of data points and analyzes it for trends. Is anyone else using a similar style of tracking and analyzing data? I'm inputting the following data into the spreadsheet:

air temp
reservoir temp
humidity
VPD
PPFD
pH
PPM
EC
Light level above canopy
canopy measurements
water consumption (measuring level below lid top for a constant anchor point)
I also take pictures from directly above, from the side showing structure and an general picture to show the overall plant. When I do my res change, I also take a pic of the root system. I've included a screenshot of the spreadsheet so you know what I'm talking about.

Overboard? Probably. Necessary? Probably not. But I'm trying to run my grow as a legit science experiment, even to the point of dialing in VPD via automation on my humidifier which seems to be working perfectly and, honestly, is a game changer! So basically, if anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, comments, or is curious about any of it, I'd love to discuss it all with you. If your comment is going to be "Dude, you're wasting your time" then honestly, don't bother. As I said, I'm treating it like an experiment to come up with repeatable verified methodologies to produce consistent results. It takes me around 5 minutes, 3 times a day, and 15 minutes of my time to catch problems before they arise is well worth it, in my humble opinion.

Cheers,

BA.

View attachment 2607819
Click to expand...
if I sleep in the garage , does that make me a car ?
 
#16
Oh and you can always say "I'm interested in _____________________ can you link articles based on that?". As both a self check and further reading.
 
#17
Most important take on it for me is that that guys AI slowly dragged him in to the AI.
By sweet talking him.
Then slowly turning him against "Your frinds at the farm" to keep him all for it self.

I think that says it all
 
#19
I use AI exclusively in one of my tents. It is 100% in charge of the grow of 2 wedding cake photo plants. Its not using gemini/chatgpt but a model Ive developed.

One thing I despise about all the grow automation companies is the forced 'cloud' usage. I dont want my pics, info, grow data up on the web, so I keep it local. Anything I upload I want to obfuscate, encrypted, some kind of boundary.

All that said it can be a great tool, but it can also make mistakes, so you have to keep it on task. I used json data format to send data to, and get data back from LLMs. Even when I was using gemini I used it and it restricts it from going off the rails to a degree. With every inquiry, it sends the historical info about the plant so it knows the trends of that specific plant, and then the software asks questions. I dont actually interact with it much anymore. I monitor what's going on, but the day-to-day stuff it does on its own.

What you would really want is a machine learning model instead a large language model. Llms can be good tho and its a great starting point. Instead of sending data to it multiple times per day, time stamp the data and send it once per day, and ull get better results if you send it yesterdays info too, (or 3 prior weeks info even better)
 
#20
shooter64738 said:
I use AI exclusively in one of my tents. It is 100% in charge of the grow of 2 wedding cake photo plants. Its not using gemini/chatgpt but a model Ive developed.

One thing I despise about all the grow automation companies is the forced 'cloud' usage. I dont want my pics, info, grow data up on the web, so I keep it local. Anything I upload I want to obfuscate, encrypted, some kind of boundary.

All that said it can be a great tool, but it can also make mistakes, so you have to keep it on task. I used json data format to send data to, and get data back from LLMs. Even when I was using gemini I used it and it restricts it from going off the rails to a degree. With every inquiry, it sends the historical info about the plant so it knows the trends of that specific plant, and then the software asks questions. I dont actually interact with it much anymore. I monitor what's going on, but the day-to-day stuff it does on its own.

What you would really want is a machine learning model instead a large language model. Llms can be good tho and its a great starting point. Instead of sending data to it multiple times per day, time stamp the data and send it once per day, and ull get better results if you send it yesterdays info too, (or 3 prior weeks info even better)
Click to expand...

Thanks, shooter. I appreciate the input on it. What I'm currently doing is logging all my data readings 3 times a day into a spreadsheet, and after saving the latest copy I also save a second copy as a .csv file for upload. This way, ChatGPT looks at the entire data set for the last several weeks since I started it (approx. 10 days into the grow) all laid out in columns for trend analysis. I'll keep doing that the entire grow, each day adding 3 new lines of data points for it to analyze. I'm sure it'll get to the point where I upload the .csv file and latest pictures, then have to wait 20 minutes while it analyzes all the information...lol. Oh well, c'est la vie, as the French like to say.

For sure, I've caught many mistakes in its assumptions, its lack of "remembering" certain discussions about details and the like. I've come to realize that as an analytical tool it does a great job at recognizing trends and linking them back to specific changes made (I keep one column called "notes" where I detail any and all changes, alterations, and it treats it like gospel). While I'm fairly decent at looking things up online (I've got a Black Belt in Google!) creating my own program is light years beyond my abilities. I have been keeping an eye on one called "Herbies", though, which is in the beta phase and is specific to growing cannabis.

Ultimately, I'm treating AI as a handy tool rather than an expert to listen to for all my advice. That's why I created an account here, after all.

Cheers,

BA.
 
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