664 SQ FT Multi Room Gow

[king3989]

Greetings I have read many post on this forum and been a member over at ROI for a while. Up until recently I was a pure recreational grower. I am no pro I am learning and can accept constructive criticism. Recent circumstances have lead me to try to expand my knowledge base and that in turn has led me here to Thcfarmer. This forum provides a platform more geared toward my current endeavor. Like I stated before I have done my own research but I am NO PRO...So here goes. I am just looking for some input. I have been tasked by a longtime friend to design, build and help operate a apartment grow op. He has the resources to finance this. He has seen my previous work with a smaller grow and I am one of his most trusted friends. With that being said him and me will be the only people who are going to have knowledge of or access to this operation. We plan to set up in a 664 Sq ft. 3 bedroom apartment. Since this is purely a commercial venture I'm thinking of Power Plant and Ak-47 or NYC Diesel. The PP for yield value and the Diesel and Ak for the Quality and recognition value. So on to the details. There are 3 bedrooms bedroom 1 is 70.70 Sq ft. Bedroom 2 and 3 are around 126 Sq ft. more or less and there is a 2 main rooms 1 around 143 Sq Ft. and the other 202 Sq Ft. for a total of around 664 Sq Ft. I plan on using around 40x1000 HPS for this area, so around 60,000 watts with the added watts for A/C and Fans and other devices. I estimate around 140,000 BTU's of cooling or 11 tons will be needed if I use a sealed system. I would like to make this first grow as easy and K.I.S.S as possible so I can produce the most without way to much overhead the first go around. So if a better way of cooling this many lights and this multi-room setup is known I'm open for suggestions. If I used cooltubes and a aircooled system I know it will be more cost effective but I don't want to run into any problems controlling temps in this large of a space. I am planning on this being a organic soil grow just because I'm familiar with soil and don't want to try and learn Hydro on a grow of this size with virtually no Hydro experience. My first big hurdle is obviously electricity. Anonymity is a must. This is not a rural area but my friend is the property owner so we don't have to worry about the landlord dropping by for anything. I'm thinking off-grid so a 70 or 80 Kw Genny will be a option. I know trying to run this many lights on a residitial property will require some upgrades to the existing electrical system as well as raise a few eyebrows at the power company so i think Off-Grid is best. If any other options are known fire away. Also plan on using CO2 and A charcoal filter of course. The rest is up in the air for suggestions. I stated before that I am able to accept criticism. I am a fairly intelligent person and I have 1 smaller grow under my belt. I'm not looking for the typical this is way to much to take on from a near novice. I am looking for the more experience growers to lend a few tips and point me in the right direction. I continue to do research on my own and I'm not rushed to make this happen. I plan on starting the actual build when I have a solid plan and a knowledge base to sustain an on going operation of this size. Also I am totally aware of the legal implications of attempting any grow in a non medical state so comments about legal this and that are not needed. I accept and appreciate all comments. I am just happy to be in a position to try and make something like this happen. Thanks again for anticipated cooperation.

 

[HookedonPonics]

no offense but thats not gonna happen, have you ever played with a generator that size. even if the landlord were cool with that im sure your neighbors wont be once its running, also how do you plan on lugging all that diesel fuel to an apt without drawing suspicion? obviously you have alot of research to do even in a med state this is omething noone i know would even want to touch. if your boy has the finances consider getting a warehouse space and mask the power you draw with a legit biz. if you run that route its gonna end up really bad and in my opinion your freedom is worth more than some good meds or cash. goodluck

 

[king3989]

First of all thanks for the reply. One thing I was looking for was some suggestions as to how you WOULD do this. As far as cooling, electric and setup. The generator was just a option. If any other better approach is known or anyone has done anything like this some input as to how you carried it out would be appreciated. I don't believe in no it can't happen. I know some was ways are safer than others but we all know there is no where in the US that you can grow 100% legal. If you are a Med grower there are still legal hoops to jump through. If your growing off grid somewhere in a warehouse and no one knows about it but you you are still rolling the dice so to speak. Legal implications aside I'm sure there are grow ops going on in places you would least expect it. Also if a generator that size would pose a problem in this space would a smaller quiet running generator be a better option. I know the Generac QuietSource line make considerably less noise than other options. Looking for some possibilities that make this closer to an achievable endeavor.

 

[king3989]

Another Electrical option would be to install a 200-amp loadcenter with a 20 Ballast flip -100-amps for 20 ballasts x 1000-watt ballasts. The remaining 50 to 75-amps usable power can power all the other electrical equipment. I'm guessing this will require another drop from the main. I Have a couple certified electricians friends if need be. I don't want to add them to the equation until absolutely necessary though. This alternative leaves me with electric bills averaging from $500-$700 per month depending on the light cycle. Will this still raise enough of an eyebrow if somehow we can split the the cost between the 2 apartments located in the house?? My partner in this resides in one apartment the other will be used for the grow. This allows for us to still use the same amount of lights needed but of course half the ballast. Would appreciate some input from some of the electric guys out there getting over this electric hurdle seems to be the biggest problem moving forward with this plan.

 

[Papa]

may i ask how you run 40,000 watts of lighting for "$500-$700 per month."

 

[king3989]

I could be wrong here but If I use a flip wont I be using 20 ballasts instead of 40?? I therefore would only be using half the electric needed for twice the lights because only 20 will be on most of the time. I calculated around 1600 Watts with other devices. So 16x0.05 kwh=.80 per kwh @16 hrs a day around 30 days a month is 480 hours @ .80 is $38.40 for 1 1000w light x 20 lights=$768.00. I knoow any one of these calculations could be way off but this is what I came up with. Let me know if there is a flaw in my logic. Here to learn.

 

[Papa]

yes, 20 ballasts running 24/7 during flower (what are you going to do during veg?) to run 40 lamps, each 12 hrs/day. so, it's 40,000 watts of lighting running 12 hrs/day.

an additional 1,600w may cover your pumps and fans . . . but what about your a/c?

and i suggest you verify your cost per kwh, i haven't paid 5 cents per in over thirty years.

 

[king3989]

I appreciate the input. I'll do more research on my own. Although I have gotten alot of good info here. I'm getting the vibe that the pros here aren't to enthusiastic about lending a hand to us that are just starting out. Instead of careful guidance it's "let's tear apart every post and not lend any helpful or alternative info in the process". Let's keep in mind that we all started out knowing nothing. A forum should be a platform where all can share their knowledge and help each other advance. As I stated before I can accept constructive criticism but if criticism is all that's offered without any helpful ideas then all it becomes is criticism and that's not constructive. Thanks again to the people who did take time to reply.

 

[motherlode]

lmao

really?

when we all started out knowing nothing we didnt try and pull off a 60 k grow room and then expect a bunch of total starngers to hold our hand while we did it

 

[king3989]

Let me be clear here I asked for some advice and alternatives. I know most forums are a bunch of guys who talk shop about look at how cool I am I have this many lights and look at how hi tech my setup is. The thing about know it all types is they usually aren't do it all types. I was very humble and asked for just a few pointers or alternatives. I am the type of person that will get this done with or without any "hand holding" or any thing else of that nature. Because that's what people who actually DO things do. I am perfectly open to comments like "hey maybe you should scale this back a bit" or "You might not be able to pull this off but this is a better idea with that type of space" I know the anonymity of a forums makes it easy to be rude and berate those of us that might not be as knowledgeable but it shouldn't be that way. It doesn't cost a thing to be cool and give some honest insight if you think the guy is trying to learn. Hand holding would be me asking you to plan every aspect and that's not what I am asking. I was humbly asking for any positive input no matter how large or small that is. Once again I do appreciate taking time out to respond but lets keep it positive and cool.

 

[Papa]

okay king. you're not the first at the farm to post up their dreams, and you're certainly not the first to have BIG dreams.

so here's my advice, don't try to increase your op by more than 100% at a time.

so, if your previous experience was a 600 in a tent, go for a 1000. if your previous grow was 2,000w, go for a four light.

. . . and read every grow diary at the farm, even the bad ones will teach you something.

good luck.

 

[ganjherbsmoke]

ya how u can pay 500 a month for all that is beyond me

running just over 6k watts my power bill is just over 500 lol...
so either my power company is insane or youve got some of the most killer rates ive ever heard of

i hear u can get 8000w propane genys from home depot so maybe just get a lot of those haha?

 

[king3989]

Now we are getting some where. So to start with I clearly made an error in my calculation its around .15 kwh where I am so it was of course a large error. My mistake. So now we are talking about 4800 in electric with fans CO2 A/C and 40 lights running on a flip. If I am correct there would be a period of 6 hrs in if where all lights are on in each room if 2 rooms are used. So there needs to bee enough power to run all 40 lights for a period of time also. That of course is not reasonable that is why off the grid is probably the only option. Papa I appreciate the honest insight. I agree totally looking at things and considering all the factors involved. This is a chance at achieving a dream grow here as I said my partner has the finances to achieve fund this. The only problem is that he is willing to do this purely for the profit end of it. It's more of a labor of love also for me but I do want to make a nice profit also. So with that being said if the profit end of this doesn't sound good it wont happen. Scaling back to half this space (The 2 large rooms and 20 lights)is an option but it still has to make a pretty good profit to be worth it. I am also reading a tremendous amount of information on my own and basically taking myself to school so to speak. Once again I appreciate all the positive info

 

[fluffygrrrl]

I knoow any one of these calculations could be way off but this is what I came up with. Let me know if there is a flaw in my logic. Here to learn.

If you were here to learn, you wouldn't be so sensitive. I didn't see anything wrong with people who responded to you. There were many flaws in your logic. You asked for help, do you want us to lie to you? I pay around $80 a month for each 1000w light. My advice is to dial back and stay humble. Start out small, (1 room) and spend about 3 to 5 hours each night on this site READING. This is an awesome site, the people are great, and you will learn so much.

 

[motherlode]

^^^ agreed = thats why I was so "harsh"


there was nothing wrong with the way he was responded to

and it is really irritating when somebody who is totally new comes in - asks a ton of "over the top and its obvious your in way over your head" questions and then gets mad when he doesnt hear what he wants to hear or nobody responds quick enough

 

[king3989]

Understood. It really wasn't that I was mad it was more that the first 2 responses didn't offer any alternatives or other suggestions. I see that there are alot of people here that really want to help so I won't dwell on that. So I see that the consensus is to scale this back to 1 or 2 rooms. Would the 2 biggest rooms still be too much?? Room 1 is 144 Sq Ft. and Room 2 is 202 sq Ft.

 

[hiboy]

We all dream big
i started out 3 years ago in a bedroom with two 4x8 tables, flood and drain.
4x1000 watts, scrubber, fans..blah blahblah
i was successful. I just started a warehouse grow 12x25 and thats even gnarly fo rme
its hard enough to grow as a newbie
you also have to consider the trimming, preparing the bud for sale.
thats more work than the grow,, its really insain if you dont have the help from experienced and trustworthy friends.
and if you dont cure it in time its all a waste.
ur scale would need serious manpower and a bedroom to cure and another to hang and dry. Growing isnt really that hard with all the help here u can get, its all the other things that arent thought about that kill ya
h

 

[motherlode]

whats the dimensions?

sounds like maybe a 4-6 lighter and and 6-8 lighter

be a good place to start - still pretty big but much more managable then 2 20 light flip flops

like hiboy mentioned you have to be able to harvest and process what you grow so keep that in mind as well

maybe start one room and then in 3 weeks start the second to give you some cushion

 

[Papa]

how about we start with your experience? what's the largest grow you've completed to date?

 

[hiboy]

I' m all about helping out, check my posts, youll see me giving input all over the place,, even when its not wanted..lol
you can make some serious cash with just 8000 watts, as long as you know how to grow, cause any monkey can get some plants and plop em under some lights, its all the things that go along with it that can make or break u
There are soooo sooooo many things that will fuck u over in ur grow, and its only your knowledge that will save u, cause u can have serious buds, then 2 weeks later u might see webs, or pm or rot
And the worst thing is to put all that cash and time and them bam ur done
uve just wasted a thousand or two in nutes and the same in electricity
for ur own good its better to get a good run with a small set up of what u want to do big
and apartments arent the greatest place to start. You wont get the power u need, ur at 100 amps max, and to upgrade u have to change the conduit, wire, panel, and even ur main where ur meters are wont be able to do that.
its not the place to do what u want, i know sucks to hear but its the truth bro
h