Why Living In The American Empire Isn't All That It's Cracked Up To Be

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ttystikk

ttystikk

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Why Living In The American Empire Isn't All That It's Cracked Up To Be

I keep bumping into people- often, but not always current and former members of the armed forces and/or state and federal agencies who for some reason seem to think that the idea that 'America is the greatest country on earth' somehow means that nothing is wrong with our country or the way it's being run. Far from it. Our forefathers understood the need to continually update and upgrade our Union, through hard work and sacrifice for the good of others, and they built a flexible Consitution and institutions to make this possible.

[sarcasm]It's nice to see how well we're living up to their expectations.[/sarcasm]
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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Post of the full article;

by
Paul Craig Roberts
for The Daily Reckoning

Great empires, such as the Roman and British, were extractive. The empires succeeded, because the value of the resources and wealth extracted from conquered lands exceeded the value of conquest and governance. The reason Rome did not extend its empire east into Germany was not the military prowess of Germanic tribes but Rome’s calculation that the cost of conquest exceeded the value of extractable resources.

The Roman empire failed, because Romans exhausted manpower and resources in civil wars fighting amongst themselves for power. The British empire failed, because the British exhausted themselves fighting Germany in two world wars.

In his book, The Rule of Empires (2010), Timothy H. Parsons replaces the myth of the civilizing empire with the truth of the extractive empire. He describes the successes of the Romans, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Spanish in Peru, Napoleon in Italy, and the British in India and Kenya in extracting resources. To lower the cost of governing Kenya, the British instigated tribal consciousness and invented tribal customs that worked to British advantage.

Parsons does not examine the American empire, but in his introduction to the book he wonders whether America’s empire is really an empire as the Americans don’t seem to get any extractive benefits from it. After eight years of war and attempted occupation of Iraq, all Washington has for its efforts is several trillion dollars of additional debt and no Iraqi oil. After ten years of trillion dollar struggle against the Taliban in Afghanistan, Washington has nothing to show for it except possibly some part of the drug trade that can be used to fund covert CIA operations.

America’s wars are very expensive. Bush and Obama have doubled the national debt, and the American people have no benefits from it. No riches, no bread and circuses flow to Americans from Washington’s wars. So what is it all about?

The answer is that Washington’s empire extracts resources from the American people for the benefit of the few powerful interest groups that rule America. The military-security complex, Wall Street, agri-business and the Israel Lobby use the government to extract resources from Americans to serve their profits and power. The US Constitution has been extracted in the interests of the Security State, and Americans’ incomes have been redirected to the pockets of the 1 percent. That is how the American Empire functions.

The New Empire is different. It happens without achieving conquest. The American military did not conquer Iraq and has been forced out politically by the puppet government that Washington established. There is no victory in Afghanistan, and after a decade the American military does not control the country.

In the New Empire success at war no longer matters. The extraction takes place by being at war. Huge sums of American taxpayers’ money have flowed into the American armaments industries and huge amounts of power into Homeland Security. The American empire works by stripping Americans of wealth and liberty.

This is why the wars cannot end, or if one does end another starts. Remember when Obama came into office and was asked what the US mission was in Afghanistan? He replied that he did not know what the mission was and that the mission needed to be defined.

Obama never defined the mission. He renewed the Afghan war without telling us its purpose. Obama cannot tell Americans that the purpose of the war is to build the power and profit of the military/security complex at the expense of American citizens.

This truth doesn’t mean that the objects of American military aggression have escaped without cost. Large numbers of Muslims have been bombed and murdered and their economies and infrastructure ruined, but not in order to extract resources from them.

It is ironic that under the New Empire the citizens of the empire are extracted of their wealth and liberty in order to extract lives from the targeted foreign populations. Just like the bombed and murdered Muslims, the American people are victims of the American empire.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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If all this talk of 'extraction' sounds somehow familiar, might I suggest having a look at MSNBC's Dylan Ratigan show. He's been quoting chapter and verse on the details of who, when, where, how and why it's being done and who's losing. If you're making less than $250k a year, I'll give you a quick hint; you're not one of the winners.
 
dirk d

dirk d

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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
Alexis de Tocqueville

I read this quote awhile ago and it really made me think. no doubt america is in a downward spiral spinning quickly out of control.
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

4,686
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Post of the full article;

by
Paul Craig Roberts
for The Daily Reckoning

Great empires, such as the Roman and British, were extractive. The empires succeeded, because the value of the resources and wealth extracted from conquered lands exceeded the value of conquest and governance. The reason Rome did not extend its empire east into Germany was not the military prowess of Germanic tribes but Rome’s calculation that the cost of conquest exceeded the value of extractable resources.

The Roman empire failed, because Romans exhausted manpower and resources in civil wars fighting amongst themselves for power. The British empire failed, because the British exhausted themselves fighting Germany in two world wars.

In his book, The Rule of Empires (2010), Timothy H. Parsons replaces the myth of the civilizing empire with the truth of the extractive empire. He describes the successes of the Romans, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Spanish in Peru, Napoleon in Italy, and the British in India and Kenya in extracting resources. To lower the cost of governing Kenya, the British instigated tribal consciousness and invented tribal customs that worked to British advantage.

Parsons does not examine the American empire, but in his introduction to the book he wonders whether America’s empire is really an empire as the Americans don’t seem to get any extractive benefits from it. After eight years of war and attempted occupation of Iraq, all Washington has for its efforts is several trillion dollars of additional debt and no Iraqi oil. After ten years of trillion dollar struggle against the Taliban in Afghanistan, Washington has nothing to show for it except possibly some part of the drug trade that can be used to fund covert CIA operations.

America’s wars are very expensive. Bush and Obama have doubled the national debt, and the American people have no benefits from it. No riches, no bread and circuses flow to Americans from Washington’s wars. So what is it all about?

The answer is that Washington’s empire extracts resources from the American people for the benefit of the few powerful interest groups that rule America. The military-security complex, Wall Street, agri-business and the Israel Lobby use the government to extract resources from Americans to serve their profits and power. The US Constitution has been extracted in the interests of the Security State, and Americans’ incomes have been redirected to the pockets of the 1 percent. That is how the American Empire functions.

The New Empire is different. It happens without achieving conquest. The American military did not conquer Iraq and has been forced out politically by the puppet government that Washington established. There is no victory in Afghanistan, and after a decade the American military does not control the country.

In the New Empire success at war no longer matters. The extraction takes place by being at war. Huge sums of American taxpayers’ money have flowed into the American armaments industries and huge amounts of power into Homeland Security. The American empire works by stripping Americans of wealth and liberty.

This is why the wars cannot end, or if one does end another starts. Remember when Obama came into office and was asked what the US mission was in Afghanistan? He replied that he did not know what the mission was and that the mission needed to be defined.

Obama never defined the mission. He renewed the Afghan war without telling us its purpose. Obama cannot tell Americans that the purpose of the war is to build the power and profit of the military/security complex at the expense of American citizens.

This truth doesn’t mean that the objects of American military aggression have escaped without cost. Large numbers of Muslims have been bombed and murdered and their economies and infrastructure ruined, but not in order to extract resources from them.

It is ironic that under the New Empire the citizens of the empire are extracted of their wealth and liberty in order to extract lives from the targeted foreign populations. Just like the bombed and murdered Muslims, the American people are victims of the American empire.
Interestingly enough we have a presidential candidate that thinks along these same lines but nobody wants to support the old man even though not one other candidate is standing up for your personal liberties,in fact quite to the contrary, the others want to take more liberties away from you.
 
putembk

putembk

2,665
263
Interestingly enough we have a presidential candidate that thinks along these same lines but nobody wants to support the old man even though not one other candidate is standing up for your personal liberties,in fact quite to the contrary, the others want to take more liberties away from you.
I totally agree fishw, unfortunately that candidate doesn't have big $$$ backing him. Surprisingly there are some very well informed members in this forum, unfortunately we are just a flea on an elephants ass. The 1% RULE this country, both Republican and Democrat.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
Alexis de Tocqueville

I read this quote awhile ago and it really made me think. no doubt america is in a downward spiral spinning quickly out of control.

I think his formula's only delay relates to the ability of technology to distract- or dominate- the masses. Ceasar used bread and circuses to great effect 2000 years ago. We have widescreens, Kim Kardashian and Porsche 911s. The more things change... And if those don't work, we have history's finest military, all wired up to kill by remote control. Don't even need to get messy, and our boys can be home eating dinner with their families, even as the destruction wreaked on the far side of the planet hits the evening news.

O' Arrogant Humanity.

Arrogance, greed and shortsightedness. The perfect trifecta!

Interestingly enough we have a presidential candidate that thinks along these same lines but nobody wants to support the old man even though not one other candidate is standing up for your personal liberties,in fact quite to the contrary, the others want to take more liberties away from you.

Thanks to dumbing down our school system, most people don't even realize they ARE getting screwed, never mind how badly! Unfortunately, one man will not change anything, it will take a complete overhaul. We could only wish to be so lucky.

"Those who would bargain to give away their liberties in order to gain security will neither get, nor deserve, either." Ben Franklin, still the smartest guy in the room.

I totally agree fishw, unfortunately that candidate doesn't have big $$$ backing him. Surprisingly there are some very well informed members in this forum, unfortunately we are just a flea on an elephants ass. The 1% RULE this country, both Republican and Democrat.

Agreed. Corporate power left unchecked will lead to a terrible end for us all. If only the Supreme Court were the first to pay for their crimes...
 
K

kolah

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A nice informative article by Mr Roberts. This country is a mess and most people are clueless. Want a glimpse of the very near future....watch the events that are happening in Greece.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
A nice informative article by Mr Roberts. This country is a mess and most people are clueless. Want a glimpse of the very near future....watch the events that are happening in Greece.

America seems to have lost its way- I simply can't imagine people here getting riled up enough to get out and bother to have mass demonstrations. We're too busy with our distracted little lives to care, by and large. Of course there are exceptions- many here reading this, for example...
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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The backlash against Federal overreach IS coming- how it will play out, I'm not sure. Rome was built as a democracy too, but Julius Ceasar crossed the Rubicon and took power anyway. That was ancient history's most famous example of a military usurpation of duly elected civilian authority.

What I fear is that we will simply- by simple inaction alone- cede our civilian authority to govern to the Feds without a shot being fired...

Ask those law abiding citizens who sheltered in place in their own homes in New Orleans after Katrina- they did nothing wrong, were protected by the Constitution- and yet they were stripped of their weapons by a military authority. How is that different than tyranny?
 
B

Bluenote

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43
I

Thanks to dumbing down our school system, most people don't even realize they ARE getting screwed, never mind how badly! Unfortunately, one man will not change anything, it will take a complete overhaul. We could only wish to be so lucky.

"Those who would bargain to give away their liberties in order to gain security will neither get, nor deserve, either." Ben Franklin, still the smartest guy in the room.



Agreed. Corporate power left unchecked will lead to a terrible end for us all. If only the Supreme Court were the first to pay for their crimes...



They above is a KEY facet , our socalled "educational system" has been transformed into an **EDUINDOCTRINATIONAL** " system" geared towards producing bleating , mindless drones inculcated with the " rhetoric of the day"...............don't look to what IS being taught in our schools , look to what IS NO LONGER taught in our schools and the modifications made to various curricula that support the current socialist type creep.

Note that there are no longer classes in logic or rational thought taught below the University level.

R.M. Hare is nothing but a "weird rabbit" nowadays and Ben Franklin is merely a forgotten chain of " five and dime stores" from a forgotten era. That is indeed an unfortunate and likely irreversible syndrome.
 
B

Bluenote

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America seems to have lost its way- I simply can't imagine people here getting riled up enough to get out and bother to have mass demonstrations. We're too busy with our distracted little lives to care, by and large. Of course there are exceptions- many here reading this, for example...


And that is ****BY PLAN***** , examine totalitarian regimes throughout history , they often managed to keep the populace so busy with just day to day survival , along with of course the aforementioned " bread and circuses" distractions
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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And that is ****BY PLAN***** , examine totalitarian regimes throughout history , they often managed to keep the populace so busy with just day to day survival , along with of course the aforementioned " bread and circuses" distractions

It pays to remember how popular Ceasar was with the poor of Rome; for he, far more than the 'duly elected (only rich men got to vote)' Senate, cared about them, and showed it every day with his bread and circuses program. It's funny how often that's forgotten and instead his popular- and effective- policy is held up to ridicule today...
 
B

Bluenote

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It pays to remember how popular Ceasar was with the poor of Rome; for he, far more than the 'duly elected (only rich men got to vote)' Senate, cared about them, and showed it every day with his bread and circuses program. It's funny how often that's forgotten and instead his popular- and effective- policy is held up to ridicule today...


Correction; He showed the ***appearance*** of caring , Soma for the Masses to keep the unwashed Rabble complacent.

Sound familar? It's just that nowadays we have an entire Orchestra of Neros Fiddling whilst Rome ( DC) burns............

Our politicians collectively need a New Name , an Indian one...' Move Mouth Much Do Very Little"......................
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
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Correction; He showed the ***appearance*** of caring , Soma for the Masses to keep the unwashed Rabble complacent.

Sound familar? It's just that nowadays we have an entire Orchestra of Neros Fiddling whilst Rome ( DC) burns............

Our politicians collectively need a New Name , an Indian one...' Move Mouth Much Do Very Little"......................

Ceasar did care; the Senators didn't give a damn whether the poor of Rome lived or died- and proved it by letting them starve- so bread and circuses were a big step up for them, uprising or not. He didn't have to do it; his was the greatest rmy in all the known world at the time; he could easily have ordered it to put down any insurrection. No question that he had the ability- that same army had just taken Rome itself! It is a selfish misrepresentation of the events of those days that historians and politicians sneer at his actions as merely self serving.

I've heard the story- and the spin- many times, and I just don't buy the idea that he did it only to keep a grip on power. Remember, he was assassinated on the Ides of March by the whole Senate in a bid to wrest power back from his Dictatorship. Do you think they'd have stopped at assassinating him- and not his character?

Our politicians have managed to hamstring our whole political system, and the big business interests who shower it with money play it like the world's biggest- and most lucrative- pachinko game. Example? In today's headlines, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase Bank, kept his job AND his seat on the banking regulatory board in spite of his company's self admitted 'stupid' and 'foolish' mistakes, costing the bank two billion dollars! If you want a target for your ire about how badly this country is being managed, I suggest you start there.
 
nebulius

nebulius

457
63
America seems to have lost its way- I simply can't imagine people here getting riled up enough to get out and bother to have mass demonstrations. We're too busy with our distracted little lives to care, by and large. Of course there are exceptions- many here reading this, for example...
I think many people feel like their vote doesn't make a difference and the majority of the population tunes out politics because they don't feel it affects their daily lives. So that leaves the power with the lobbyists and corporations to decide our laws for us.
I think the real power we hold as citizens is at the state and local level. We need to become more involved in local politics and choose better Congressmen that represent us better.
And we also need to make sure Congressmen that do nothing and side with special interests don't get re-elected.
"Most incumbents seek re-election, and their historical likelihood of winning subsequent elections exceeds 90 percent."
I think there could be another revolution in this country. With social media it is very possible that one day someone might start a twitter campaign to stop paying taxes on April 15. That would get the attention of our politicians.
The people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people. Power to the people!
 
B

Bluenote

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Our politicians have managed to hamstring our whole political system, and the big business interests who shower it with money play it like the world's biggest- and most lucrative- pachinko game. Example? In today's headlines, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase Bank, kept his job AND his seat on the banking regulatory board in spite of his company's self admitted 'stupid' and 'foolish' mistakes, costing the bank two billion dollars! If you want a target for your ire about how badly this country is being managed, I suggest you start there.


Uh HUH , obviously you've never been party to one of my " Get a gawdammned rope" tirades against the banking/lending industries..

And nope , don't start there , start with their paid lackeys inside the beltway and proceed from there.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
I think many people feel like their vote doesn't make a difference and the majority of the population tunes out politics because they don't feel it affects their daily lives. So that leaves the power with the lobbyists and corporations to decide our laws for us.
I think the real power we hold as citizens is at the state and local level. We need to become more involved in local politics and choose better Congressmen that represent us better.
And we also need to make sure Congressmen that do nothing and side with special interests don't get re-elected.
"Most incumbents seek re-election, and their historical likelihood of winning subsequent elections exceeds 90 percent."
I think there could be another revolution in this country. With social media it is very possible that one day someone might start a twitter campaign to stop paying taxes on April 15. That would get the attention of our politicians.
The people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people. Power to the people!

Regarding holding congressmen to account; agreed, without reservation. We the people also need to make it much more difficult for people to make a career of politics, in part by imposing term limits and in part by making it a more level playing field between incumbents and challengers.

Regarding lobbyists and special interest groups; I think no one who doesn't breathe should be allowed to give one thin dime to influence politics, on pain of a long prison term. Those who DO breathe should have a maximum limit of $100 to spend on any single candidate, to keep such influence within easy reach of everyone.

Regarding gov't fearing the people; may I direct your attention to Syria, where the government is indeed terrified of its people- doesn't look like a solution I want any part of, especially when what we seek- social justice- can be so easily sought by working within the system.

I have seen revolution up close and personal; I think that we need to work a lot harder at making gov't and its representatives work a lot harder, smarter and better for us, rather than attempting to overthrow them by force of arms. That is a far better option than open revolt. Besides, the last time the bankers took over the gov't was right before the crash of '29 and the Great Depression and do you know what? We managed to wrest it back from them. Surely we can do it again without resorting to violence?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
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Uh HUH , obviously you've never been party to one of my " Get a gawdammned rope" tirades against the banking/lending industries..

And nope , don't start there , start with their paid lackeys inside the beltway and proceed from there.

Incoherent screaming for someone's head isn't the way forward- that's just going to get you labelled- with some justification- as a nut from the fringe. I understand your frustration, but cynicism is its own disease. Get involved- the more deeply, the better!
 
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