Too much N? Help Please

What are your temps and RH levels at? Especially down in the root zone. They don't look overfed, they look cold.

They look pretty healthy. Is this picture during their night cycle?

IME a nitrogen toxicity usually makes dark dark purpleish green leaves and the new growth will downward claw.

Seamaiden said:

What are your temps and RH levels at? Especially down in the root zone. They don't look overfed, they look cold.

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Thanks for looking. You might be right. I am at the coast is SoCal and it has been cool lately. Photo was taken just as lights went out. I have lights on 7pm to 7am with temps running in the high 60's low 70's with lights on and low to mid 60's when lights are out. Humidity has been 30's to 50's with mostly 40RH. I don't know about the root zone, I don't monitor this. But I am in a tent in a garage with pots sitting on floor with only one layer of tent between floor. Roots zone might be colder. How cold is too cold? Will 60's slow things down?

The plants do look healthy overall but have a noticeable lack of vigor the last 24 hours.

WalterWhiteFire said:

They look pretty healthy. Is this picture during their night cycle?

IME a nitrogen toxicity usually makes dark dark purpleish green leaves and the new growth will downward claw.

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Hi WWF, thanks. No purplish color but I have had some downward clawing, canoeing especially directly following transplant into Vermifire soil. I started seeds in Rapid Rooters and transplanted to 4" cups with Black Gold potting soil. The next step was 1 gal containers with Vermifire on bottom and Black gold on top. Final transplant was into straight Vermifire in 7 gal cloth pot. There was a little burn on a couple of young seedlings but nothing severe and they recovered well.

Also, my veg tent is super vigorous and does not seem to have problems with these temps. Same seed to soil protocols followed as the flowering plants I am worried about. But no Earth Juice used yet. Just RO and ACT with Cap's bennies, EWC, AH, Kelp and Alfalfa meal. Topdressed with Neem meal for bug prevention.

Black Lab said:

Thanks for looking. You might be right. I am at the coast is SoCal and it has been cool lately. Photo was taken just as lights went out. I have lights on 7pm to 7am with temps running in the high 60's low 70's with lights on and low to mid 60's when lights are out. Humidity has been 30's to 50's with mostly 40RH. I don't know about the root zone, I don't monitor this. But I am in a tent in a garage with pots sitting on floor with only one layer of tent between floor. Roots zone might be colder. How cold is too cold? Will 60's slow things down?

The plants do look healthy overall but have a noticeable lack of vigor the last 24 hours.

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Ah, I've done that before, and I can tell you unequivocally that running too-cool temps, and those are in that range, will net you results very similar to running too hot. Larfy buds, reduced yields, more problems. One great thing? NO SPIDER MITES! Seriously. But I'd get those girls warmed up. My favorite method is one my cheap ass has been using for *years*, I call it Electric Blanket Sandwich. Cheap twin bed-size electric blanket from the Walmart, either very carefully folded (you do NOT want pinched wires, that can lead to fire. That said, I have yet to see anything remotely like that happen and I use this method a *lot*, and not just for my plants) and then placed inside 1-2 plastic contractor bags, then laid under the growing area and something like a piece of corrugated plastic placed over the top. You can also just lay out the blanket without folding and lay some plastic over the top, but my own main goal is to keep it clean in case I ever want to use it for something like its intended purpose.

Doing it this way, a la heat mat but far less expensive and a bit more trouble to set up, means that the plant will be warmed gently from the roots on up since heat rises. Makes a WORLD of difference, IME.

Seamaiden said:

Ah, I've done that before, and I can tell you unequivocally that running too-cool temps, and those are in that range, will net you results very similar to running too hot. Larfy buds, reduced yields, more problems. One great thing? NO SPIDER MITES! Seriously. But I'd get those girls warmed up. My favorite method is one my cheap ass has been using for *years*, I call it Electric Blanket Sandwich. Cheap twin bed-size electric blanket from the Walmart, either very carefully folded (you do NOT want pinched wires, that can lead to fire. That said, I have yet to see anything remotely like that happen and I use this method a *lot*, and not just for my plants) and then placed inside 1-2 plastic contractor bags, then laid under the growing area and something like a piece of corrugated plastic placed over the top. You can also just lay out the blanket without folding and lay some plastic over the top, but my own main goal is to keep it clean in case I ever want to use it for something like its intended purpose.

Doing it this way, a la heat mat but far less expensive and a bit more trouble to set up, means that the plant will be warmed gently from the roots on up since heat rises. Makes a WORLD of difference, IME.

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It does sound like I am running a little too cool. Too bad, I was hoping to be right in the zone with lights on and natural AC pumped in from outside during our mild winters down here. Thanks for the ideas for heating with a blanket. I will see what I can rig together to warm things up. I was thinking about putting 1" wood board under the pots to insulate from the bottom but a heating pad would be better.

If simply lifting the pots is enough to get the roots warmed, then I think that's what you should do. Consider a piece of that rigid Styrofoam insulation instead of a piece of wood.

Good morning Seamaiden, I stuck a temp probe into container and temps were low 60's and probably cooler deeper down. I went to Home Depot last night and picked up thick Styrofoam to put under each pot and get them off the floor. The plant in the upper right hand corner was the one drooping most and it was right next to the air pumped in from outside. I stopped bringing in air from outside for now and do a passive intake instead as high temps are obviously not a problem. The Chemdog 91 seems more droopy and the Cal Dreaming (Haze x SFV) is tolerating the cool better.

To be honest, I am a little reluctant to use the blanket idea. Can't afford to burn the house down if something does go wrong :)

There are 6' x 30" heat mats for $147 at home depot. More expensive then the blanket but is UL approved. I will see how things look with the Styrofoam under the pots and if they look like they need it I will give the heat mat a try.

Thanks for your help. You have a good eye for plants. I did some research yesterday after your reponse and I think you are right on about the temps. I've got to bring them up into mid 70's I'm thinking.

Just get the roots warmed up, then reassess and see what happens. I can't bring myself to pay that much for heat mats when I can get the blanket for $30, I just can't, but if that's not too rich for your blood and the girls end up still needing additional heat, I say go for it. Part of the thing with the blankets is that they use very low wattage, and those power costs can really get ya (here in California at least) if you're not careful. In one room I had to add so much heat that I finally said fuck it and added another light, instead.

Seamaiden said:

Just get the roots warmed up, then reassess and see what happens. I can't bring myself to pay that much for heat mats when I can get the blanket for $30, I just can't, but if that's not too rich for your blood and the girls end up still needing additional heat, I say go for it. Part of the thing with the blankets is that they use very low wattage, and those power costs can really get ya (here in California at least) if you're not careful. In one room I had to add so much heat that I finally said fuck it and added another light, instead.

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Here I was thinking I was in the clear and home free from heat conditions over the summer. These cool temps are just as difficult to control. I like the tent set up but probably should frame up a room instead. I'm like you about power cost. I try to keep it down as much as I can. It's getting more and more expensive for electricity around here.

I would LOVE to run at those temps; only an issue if the root zone is below 60 degrees in my experience, and that really just slows them down, no wilt. What's your watering schedule/technique? They look over-watered to me, which is watering too frequently, not putting too much in the pot...
Definitely a slight claw, but nothing that would concern me. I'd just be sure to limit N for a bit.

altitudefarmer said:

I would LOVE to run at those temps; only an issue if the root zone is below 60 degrees in my experience, and that really just slows them down, no wilt. What's your watering schedule/technique? They look over-watered to me, which is watering too frequently, not putting too much in the pot...
Definitely a slight claw, but nothing that would concern me. I'd just be sure to limit N for a bit.

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I'm lucky I don't have nearly the temp or RH swings that you guys do in Co. Most of the year I can get by without AC or heat except for a few weeks each summer and winter and even then it's nothing extreme. RH is usually 50-60% unless the Santa Ana's are blowing and RH drops into the 20's. A friendly growing climate for sure.
I wasn't using the most accurate probe and I got 60 degrees but I think it likely colder than that. I don't think I am overwatering; I let them dry out pretty good between waterings and lift the pots to check the weight. But, I am using cloth pots for the first time and hand watering is very different than the plastic containers. The water runs out the sides of the cloth if I pour too fast. I have to water slower and give it more time to soak through. Plus, this is my first time with Vermifire soil and it drains different than what I am used to. I hope I am getting the soil wet all the way through and don't have dry spots. I don't know if I like the cloth as much, so far, but maybe I will have better roots later in flower. I will definitely back off on N and let plant use what is there. It's beginning second week of flower and should use lots of N during stretch. That's what got me worried in the first place; I wasn't seeing as much stretch as I expected and thought it was too much N. But, I think it's the temp that is slowing things down most. Thanks for checking in.

right on, Lab. I love the smart pots, myself. Water s l o w l y...lol. I am using VermiSoil instead of VermiFire and liking it better- it drains faster. But the VermiFire is great stuff in my experience too. Your gals look great except for that little droop. Make absolutely sure it's not a root issue before straying from your nutrient schedule. Good luck! I'll be lurking... :-)

Seamaiden said:

Just get the roots warmed up, then reassess and see what happens. I can't bring myself to pay that much for heat mats when I can get the blanket for $30, I just can't, but if that's not too rich for your blood and the girls end up still needing additional heat, I say go for it. Part of the thing with the blankets is that they use very low wattage, and those power costs can really get ya (here in California at least) if you're not careful. In one room I had to add so much heat that I finally said fuck it and added another light, instead.

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Well would you look at this. Less than 24 hours after getting them off the floor and they have completely turned around and are back on track. You're good girl! Thanks!

Glad we got ya sorted. It's just the perfect time of year for these kinds of threads, and like I said, I've done waaaayyy too much indoor growing in too-cool conditions. Not necessarily cold, but cool. All you've gotta do is keep their tootsies warm and all will be Golden.

Seamaiden said:

Glad we got ya sorted. It's just the perfect time of year for these kinds of threads, and like I said, I've done waaaayyy too much indoor growing in too-cool conditions. Not necessarily cold, but cool. All you've gotta do is keep their tootsies warm and all will be Golden.

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It's great to have someone with your experience to run things by. You saved me a lot of time trying to figure out what was wrong. It's cool but it's not cold. My first thought was something wrong with nutrients or bugs. I'll make sure I keep the ladies feet warm :)

Seamaiden said:

Glad we got ya sorted. It's just the perfect time of year for these kinds of threads, and like I said, I've done waaaayyy too much indoor growing in too-cool conditions. Not necessarily cold, but cool. All you've gotta do is keep their tootsies warm and all will be Golden.

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Hi Seamaiden, The plants recovered well but now have nanners coming out of buds at 30 days after flip. I guess the cool temps stressed them. Any ideas about what to do with them now? Do I chop and start over? Do I keep going? I am a small grow so not losing too much but they are looking so good.

No, not if you've got decent buds growing. I would double check to make absolutely certain of the following:

Then, I'd start inspecting closely. If it's just a few nanners they shouldn't impact overall bud production. The second issue of course is seeding, but that's fairly easily prevented by spritzing with water after plucking out what nanners you can find.

If they start popping true male flowers, then in my limited experience with that kind of full-on hermaphroditism, the female flowers stop growing/building, and in that case, your best course of action is to toss and start again. Otherwise I say keep them going, pluck & spritz.