Amended Coco/ewc

I was dabbling with a Coco soil-less mix earlier this year and ended up with mixed results. I wasn't ph-ing my water and I think that lead to some less than stellar results on a couple grows. Ended up with better results with Peat moss in the mix than coco. Could be a better buffer for high water ph 8.5-9..

I thought coco had a high Cation exchange?

CallmeTex said:

I thought coco had a high Cation exchange?

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I may have that backward lol my mind's been on the fritz lately

Saint Skinny said:

Hey all,
I've been doing research on TLO and organics for years. I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are on using a 1:1 or 2:1 blend of Coco:Ewc and then amending that mix? I've done a couple rounds like this lightly amended with the Roots Organic Uprising Line and it worked pretty well. Down the road I'd like to mix my blend 1:1 with Roots Organic Soil or FFOF, but for now I'm just kind of curious what other people think about this blend? the Coco used is Roots Organics, too.

I know a big argument with amending coco is the low Cation exchange, which I believe the added castings are helping with alot. Coco has great drainage on it's own but I'm wondering with all the castings if the soil wouldn't benefit from some perlite, which I do have (although it's the big ass chunky kind) if needed. I just thought I'd get the conversation started, could be interesting!

Growers love ~Saint

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The best advice I can give you might resent or not like but someone told me what I'm gonna tell you but I'm all about learning so if something's better I have no problem walking away from what I know to learn that. And this doesn't mean you have to take this advice just thought I'd share :)

If you wanna run amended soil which it seems like you do. Run from TLO and go NTG. No till grow.

Regardless of what you do, I still share what I know!
You want thirds. 1/3 canadian sphagnum peat moss 1/3 ewc 1/3 aeration. No perlite, use pumice instead. CSPM is a better choice over coco.
If you wanna know more, lemme know
Cheers and happy growing

With NTG you never change the soil you can grow 20 cycles and then grow some more in the same soil

Saint Skinny said:

I may have that backward lol my mind's been on the fritz lately

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Oh I was mistaken. Coco has a Cation exchange capacity of 40-60 and Peat Moss is around 100-200 CEC
https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/99806785-peat-vs-coco

CallmeTex said:

Oh I was mistaken. Coco has a Cation exchange capacity of 40-60 and Peat Moss is around 100-200 CEC
https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/99806785-peat-vs-coco

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Good post good article!

TLO

https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/9885098-why-tlo-dissecting-the-rev-mix-line-by-line

CallmeTex said:

Oh I was mistaken. Coco has a Cation exchange capacity of 40-60 and Peat Moss is around 100-200 CEC
https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/99806785-peat-vs-coco

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Great Article! That's partially what the worm castings are for, they have a high CEC, although I'm having a hard time finding a number.

So from a few articles I just read: Coco is better suited to use with chemical nutrients, and Peat moss is better suited to Organic growing. That's also what I've found in my own personal trials as well. You said you had been trialing coco with organics though? How have your grows been going?

Saint Skinny said:

Great Article! That's partially what the worm castings are for, they have a high CEC, although I'm having a hard time finding a number.

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50-100

My castings will take a year to be ready, I feed them only amendments, no kitchen scraps. My no tills are also my EWC.
The cannabis plant is its mulch.
A complete circle soil feeds plant, plant feeds soil.

CallmeTex said:

So from a few articles I just read: Coco is better suited to use with chemical nutrients, and Peat moss is better suited to Organic growing. That's also what I've found in my own personal trials as well. You said you had been trialing coco with organics though? How have your grows been going?

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not too bad actually. That's what's got me so intrigued with the whole thing. Hell, although it's not cannabis, I was shocked with my Echinacea experiment this summer. I put two echinacea seedlings in 1 qt fabric pots, one was straight coco amended with uprising, and the second was a 2:1 coco:ewc mix amended at the same strength. I planted them in the spring, didn't give em anything but water and microbes, and they thrived throughout the entire summer. not a single deficiency, nothing. Like I said, echinacea isn't the same as cannabis, but it got my gears turnin in this noggin of mine.

Saint Skinny said:

not too bad actually. That's what's got me so intrigued with the whole thing. Hell, although it's not cannabis, I was shocked with my Echinacea experiment this summer. I put two echinacea seedlings in 1 qt fabric pots, one was straight coco amended with uprising, and the second was a 2:1 coco:ewc mix amended at the same strength. I planted them in the spring, didn't give em anything but water and microbes, and they thrived throughout the entire summer. not a single deficiency, nothing. Like I said, echinacea isn't the same as cannabis, but it got my gears turnin in this noggin of mine.

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I see. Were you measuring ph with the echinacea's? Do they need a lot of Cal and mag? All questions I would ask if ammending the coco. Also the quality of worm castings is a big part. I've bought some worm castings locally in 10 gallon bag that I swear is mostly sand. Since then the ewc that I produce is much better.

So when is this grow happening???

CallmeTex said:

I see. Were you measuring ph with the echinacea's? Do they need a lot of Cal and mag? All questions I would ask if ammending the coco. Also the quality of worm castings is a big part. I've bought some worm castings locally in 10 gallon bag that I swear is mostly sand. Since then the ewc that I produce is much better.

So when is this grow happening???

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The cal mag thing is like what!? people act like It's everything! Any problem.. oh you need cal mag! Ha what can I say it is what it is! If you wanna learn search Calcium magnesium for plants on Google and add site:edu
At the end

One of coco's properties is that it likes to bind or cling onto Ca and Mg. I hear you though, lots of talk about Calmag gets old.

CallmeTex said:

I see. Were you measuring ph with the echinacea's? Do they need a lot of Cal and mag? All questions I would ask if ammending the coco. Also the quality of worm castings is a big part. I've bought some worm castings locally in 10 gallon bag that I swear is mostly sand. Since then the ewc that I produce is much better.

So when is this grow happening???

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Neg, didn't measure the pH once, I honestly didn't do a damn thing aside from give them RO water, Oregonism or Recharge. Oh and enzymes Komplete once or twice. The Foundation is Has an NPK of 3-1-1 +Ca 4.0% +MG 1.0% +Fe 0.2% and Mo 0.2%, So that may be where they got the Ca and Mg from. There's probably other trace minerals in there looking at the ingredients. But I couldn't tell you if Echinacea is a heavy CaMg feeder, this was my first time growing it, and one of my first attempts at making/using my own soil mix without cutting it 50:50 with something like foxfarm. I wasn't sure they'd make it halfway through summer, let alone keep truckin along till the frost came! I was as surprised as anybody... The EWC I got were Michigan made, I don't know if 150 miles counts as local, but it's definitely not sand, it's made by Detroit Nutrient Company. I'd like to start vermicomposting but as much as I hate to admit it, I can't even afford the worms at the moment. I've got everything needed to make a farm but I figured I'd wait until I could actually get something to put in it.

These were taken Nov 5 after I put the one into the ground for the winter

Saint Skinny said:

Neg, didn't measure the pH once, I honestly didn't do a damn thing aside from give them RO water, Oregonism or Recharge. Oh and enzymes Komplete once or twice. The Foundation is Has an NPK of 3-1-1 +Ca 4.0% +MG 1.0% +Fe 0.2% and Mo 0.2%, So that may be where they got the Ca and Mg from. There's probably other trace minerals in there looking at the ingredients. But I couldn't tell you if Echinacea is a heavy CaMg feeder, this was my first time growing it, and one of my first attempts at making/using my own soil mix without cutting it 50:50 with something like foxfarm. I wasn't sure they'd make it halfway through summer, let alone keep truckin along till the frost came! I was as surprised as anybody... The EWC I got were Michigan made, I don't know if 150 miles counts as local, but it's definitely not sand, it's made by Detroit Nutrient Company. I'd like to start vermicomposting but as much as I hate to admit it, I can't even afford the worms at the moment. I've got everything needed to make a farm but I figured I'd wait until I could actually get something to put in it.

These were taken Nov 5 after I put the one into the ground for the winter
View attachment 765345 View attachment 765346

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Nice, looks like it could work well indoors. Keep us posted on how well it goes. One thing to take note of, growing outside in the ground is a huge buffer against ph or cloramine from the water supply. Indoors you're lacking that same buffer and that's when deficiencies start to creep in. Still though try it and keep us posted..

Saint Skinny said:

Hey all,
I've been doing research on TLO and organics for years. I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are on using a 1:1 or 2:1 blend of Coco:Ewc and then amending that mix? I've done a couple rounds like this lightly amended with the Roots Organic Uprising Line and it worked pretty well. Down the road I'd like to mix my blend 1:1 with Roots Organic Soil or FFOF, but for now I'm just kind of curious what other people think about this blend? the Coco used is Roots Organics, too.

I know a big argument with amending coco is the low Cation exchange, which I believe the added castings are helping with alot. Coco has great drainage on it's own but I'm wondering with all the castings if the soil wouldn't benefit from some perlite, which I do have (although it's the big ass chunky kind) if needed. I just thought I'd get the conversation started, could be interesting!

Growers love ~Saint

Click to expand...

Thought I'd chime in.. I did a 50/50 mix of readygro coco and happy frog.. The yield was a little low because it was my first try but all I did was feed ewc/molasses teas, top dress fishbone meal, and drench with mycorrhiza every couple weeks. It was all green growth until what looked like some Mg deficiency in bloom. Your post inspired me to give this a go again though for my mom plants.

Falafel said:

Thought I'd chime in.. I did a 50/50 mix of readygro coco and happy frog.. The yield was a little low because it was my first try but all I did was feed ewc/molasses teas, top dress fishbone meal, and drench with mycorrhiza every couple weeks. It was all green growth until what looked like some Mg deficiency in bloom. Your post inspired me to give this a go again though for my mom plants.

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Glad I could inspire ya! It's pretty amazing what nature can do when given what it needs and left to do it's thing.

CallmeTex said:

So when is this grow happening???

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Forgot to respond to this part... it's happening right meow! The plants I have in veg now were originally going to be mothers, but since I got some auto reg seeds to get my seed stock grown, I'm not sure what's going to happen with these girls.
^I Believe that's the Blueberry I have in flower now.

^NL x Big Bud

^ Jack Herrer after revegging

^Blueberry in flower. As you can probably tell, and won't be surprised by, she had a deficiency (Ca of course) and my bag of Foundation had somehow not closed all the way and got moldy, so I had to chase it with Grow-N from Soul Synthetics and Herc Harvest from NFTG.

The rest of these are macro shots I took with a clip-on magnifying lens.

^the trichs in this picture remind me of soldiers lined up lol atten-tion! Left, left, left, right, left!

Saint Skinny said:

Neg, didn't measure the pH once, I honestly didn't do a damn thing aside from give them RO water, Oregonism or Recharge. Oh and enzymes Komplete once or twice. The Foundation is Has an NPK of 3-1-1 +Ca 4.0% +MG 1.0% +Fe 0.2% and Mo 0.2%, So that may be where they got the Ca and Mg from. There's probably other trace minerals in there looking at the ingredients. But I couldn't tell you if Echinacea is a heavy CaMg feeder, this was my first time growing it, and one of my first attempts at making/using my own soil mix without cutting it 50:50 with something like foxfarm. I wasn't sure they'd make it halfway through summer, let alone keep truckin along till the frost came! I was as surprised as anybody... The EWC I got were Michigan made, I don't know if 150 miles counts as local, but it's definitely not sand, it's made by Detroit Nutrient Company. I'd like to start vermicomposting but as much as I hate to admit it, I can't even afford the worms at the moment. I've got everything needed to make a farm but I figured I'd wait until I could actually get something to put in it.

These were taken Nov 5 after I put the one into the ground for the winter
View attachment 765345 View attachment 765346

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I get a little confused on your method? You feed, no till, recycle, hydro?