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help! both pH and ppm rise!

  • Thread starter Thread starter tait
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help! both pH and ppm rise!

tait 131 Replies 26,224 Views
Page 5 of 7 · Replies 81–100 of 132
#81
Cashmeh said:
All this means nothing if people dont fix their system. If you have enough light leaks, or not enough oxygen for your bacteria, the root rot will destroy it. It uses photosynthesis to reproduce unlike your bacteria. . . so yea, you need to have a good hydrosystem first and foremost. I get confused as to whos who and runs what, i just reply lol. . dont really scroll up unless needed.

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU
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how do you tackle your dissolved oxygen situation? currently I’m just using an air stone, i’ve heard it doesnt do much more than mix the nutrients around and can be hazardous in the effort of keeping pH stable, not sure if thats just speculation or the truth but it seems to be a cheap easy option for now
 
#82
tait said:
how do you tackle your dissolved oxygen situation? currently I’m just using an air stone, i’ve heard it doesnt do much more than mix the nutrients around and can be hazardous in the effort of keeping pH stable, not sure if thats just speculation or the truth but it seems to be a cheap easy option for now
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So, airstones do a few things. They assist in breaking up the surface of water, turning it over, which the more agitation you have, the more "organic" oxygen acquisition you'll see in the water. However, dissolved oxygen is partially affected by temperature, and since air stones add heat to the water, it's a counterproductive solution. You'll see pH swings as a result of the increased CO2 introduced to the solution since the air pumps will just pump in ambient air which a normal residential room runs around 300-450 ppm CO2. That will raise pH. That's why I personally do not run air pumps -- heat + CO2 + they clog easily + pumps are fuckin noisy.

h2o2 is a better option for me. I run sterile, don't struggle with keep good bacteria strong enough to combat bad bacteria, and have more DO than a heavily aerated system. Also save money as hydroguard and the like are twice as expensive as a gallon of 34% h2o2 at a quarter of the volume.
 
#83
PK1 said:
i would go with southern AG instead of hydroguard. The concentration product is better than a product that has 1000/L of water. lol!
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do you use that? or do you solely use Z7?
 
#84
tait said:
how do you tackle your dissolved oxygen situation? currently I’m just using an air stone, i’ve heard it doesnt do much more than mix the nutrients around and can be hazardous in the effort of keeping pH stable, not sure if thats just speculation or the truth but it seems to be a cheap easy option for now
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So air-stones dont really mix the nutrients. There will be gaps where nutrients sit still, thats when roots become long and stringy as they search for them.

I mentioned fallponics due to its surface agitation methods. The majority of 02 is generated at the surface. The higher the water column, generally the higher the o2 levels. When using airstones you do get some surface agitation due to the bubbles popping, your not really helping that o2 go deeper into the water column. When you add a water pump in all hydro systems you allow the water to be recirculated correctly and evenly. This greatly reduces the fluctuation in the o2 levels throughout the column.

Since the majority of 02 is generated at the surface, in theory you would want waves splashing all over up there, yet that will agitate your roots to a point where it will harm them. So there comes a point where there is not enough or too much surface agitation. Generally with any RDWC you can also run airstones, both pumps and stones on 24/7. As they said, depending where your air pump is, it will either add heat to your res, or cooled air in my case. Anyways, I use top feed RDWC, and added custom waterfalls. As my water level drops, my waterfalls become a little stronger providing a little more bubbles. In my system I have yet to have a problem with bubbles hurting the roots. So all this does is make sure my water surface is acquiring as much 02 as possible. Then, I use my water pump to mix my water column. Sucking the shit at the bottom and dropping it in the top. This is also called top feeding, which is slightly better than undercurrent. Anyways, hope that helps.
 
#85
If my water pump fails, i have backup airstones. If my airstones fail, i have backup waterfalls to create bubbles. Too late to edit that in :(
 
#86
tobh said:
So, airstones do a few things. They assist in breaking up the surface of water, turning it over, which the more agitation you have, the more "organic" oxygen acquisition you'll see in the water. However, dissolved oxygen is partially affected by temperature, and since air stones add heat to the water, it's a counterproductive solution. You'll see pH swings as a result of the increased CO2 introduced to the solution since the air pumps will just pump in ambient air which a normal residential room runs around 300-450 ppm CO2. That will raise pH. That's why I personally do not run air pumps -- heat + CO2 + they clog easily + pumps are fuckin noisy.

h2o2 is a better option for me. I run sterile, don't struggle with keep good bacteria strong enough to combat bad bacteria, and have more DO than a heavily aerated system. Also save money as hydroguard and the like are twice as expensive as a gallon of 34% h2o2 at a quarter of the volume.
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what is the environment around your system?
for instance my shed sits in my backyard, just an aluminum shed propped up on cinderblocks insulated with 2-1/2” r tech boards on the inside.
so i believe it might be somewhat harder to achieve a sterile system with my set up, the water flows in through the ground of the shed when it rains air circulates freely from the outside etc

i guess im asking is yours completely like lab grade sterilized or what level of cleanliness do
you adhere to?
 
#87
tait said:
what is the environment around your system?
for instance my shed sits in my backyard, just an aluminum shed propped up on cinderblocks insulated with 2-1/2” r tech boards on the inside.
so i believe it might be somewhat harder to achieve a sterile system with my set up, the water flows in through the ground of the shed when it rains air circulates freely from the outside etc

i guess im asking is yours completely like lab grade sterilized or what level of cleanliness do
you adhere to?
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ah you're reading too deep.

I grow in a tent in my home office. My reservoir is considered sterile given i run 5ml/gallon h2o2. I have the environment fairly well dialed but that's just because of the space I'm in.

It's not a truly sterile environment overall, is what I'm getting at -- only the nutrient solution can be considered sterile. for sterile work I have a still air box that is only used for mycology work, and that work is done in a systematically cleaned room.
 
#88
Bedroom with window ac. Both veg and flower rooms pull air in from the drying/curing room. Both rooms are filtered. The middle drying curing area is always 65F, would be lower but my fans blow it all outside lol. Such a waste. .but i know and have plans. . anyways the house is always 72. Water temps I want to be 72. The higher the water temp, the faster the growth rates, but the faster pythium grows, which means you will need more bacteria, then the bacteria combat the fungus, while the plant combats the bacteria for 02, lol. .its a fun cycle. In my eyes, eliminate all light leaks and your golden.
 
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#89
Cashmeh said:
eliminate all light leaks and your golden.
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this is fundamental. if using high concentration of O2 like in h2o2, it's so fuckin corrosive you eliminate any possibility of anything unsavory growing -- including roots if you're running too high of concentrations.

h2o2 is not to be fucked with. period.

it is a seriously corrosive chemical and should be treated with utmost respect. any sterile grower will tell you stories of the burns that shit will leave.

it's hard af to explain to an employer, a lover, a friend, why you have white spots on your skin after you fuck up handling it. it hurts, seriously, and it's not like an acid or base where you can neutralize the burn easily. even flushing with water doesn't cut it enough to prevent damage.
 
#90
tobh said:
this is fundamental. if using high concentration of O2 like in h2o2, it's so fuckin corrosive you eliminate any possibility of anything unsavory growing -- including roots if you're running too high of concentrations.

h2o2 is not to be fucked with. period.

it is a seriously corrosive chemical and should be treated with utmost respect. any sterile grower will tell you stories of the burns that shit will leave.

it's hard af to explain to an employer, a lover, a friend, why you have white spots on your skin after you fuck up handling it. it hurts, seriously, and it's not like an acid or base where you can neutralize the burn easily. even flushing with water doesn't cut it enough to prevent damage.
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I can't even find the stuff at a decent percentage anymore, and the price on anything is also to high. Is vinegar an alternative? I'm making my own now for pH down and cleaning purposes, pretty east to make(I think).
 
#91
TryingToGrow said:
I can't even find the stuff at a decent percentage anymore, and the price on anything is also to high. Is vinegar an alternative? I'm making my own now for pH down and cleaning purposes, pretty east to make(I think).
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vinegar is an incredibly weak acid. you need phosphoric acid or sulfiric acid for any kind of stability.
 
#92
tobh said:
vinegar is an incredibly weak acid. you need phosphoric acid or sulfiric acid for any kind of stability.
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Thanks, I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject. I thought that h2o2 was being used for cleaning/algae prevention in the conversation before. I was wondering if vinegar good in that situation (mainly the algae prevention, I already use it for cleaning and it works fine).

And by weak do you mean unstable, or that it's pH is not very low or something else? Again, I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject.

Thanks

Edit: Just wanted to say after looking a little bit is seems vinegar is good vs algae. Algae doesn't like acidic water and water for cannabis should be acidic. Not sure the exact pH algae will not grow though.

"According to Healthfully, algae thrives in water with high pH levels between seven and nine. For most algae growth, an optimum pH is between 8.2 and 8.7. A pH level that is neutral or lower can help decrease the growth of algae."

Quote from here, good read regarding algae.

I'm going to put some sub 6.0 pH water in the sun for a while and see if it gets any algae. Makes me wonder what temps are needed for algae, lowest in particular, being winter now.
 
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#93
after cleaning my reservoir it seems my algae has returned again. i saw barely a speck and tried getting it out to no avail, my roots went from healing white back to a clumpy orange. perhaps it is root rot instead, im not too sure, (during my rez clean the other day i got a LOT of orange clumps and dirt out of my sprayer system)
I think im gonna try that Southern Ag next rez change see how that plays for the week, start creating a live system.

in reality, I got plenty of time to learn test and play around, if all this means I fucked up and have to restart, so be it.

Heres how they look tonight
92399DDC 8247 4DC1 9E78 0E0AD62046E1

...judging on the back left plant i think i may have topped to early and altogether probably poorly timed, i should be worrying about the health below the plant first
 
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#94
light penetrates through the yellow lids and also through the net pot that is empty so no wonder that algae has started again. Now you gotta do the whole thing again and bleach, rub it with h2o2 and than tap water everything down few times. Sterlite equipment is a must.
 
#95
Overall though, it seems like just keep your water below 6.0pH (which it should be anyways), as little light as possible and cool, then the algae should not be a problem.
 
#96
PK1 said:
light penetrates through the yellow lids and also through the net pot that is empty.
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I agree. At OP cant you put black plastic(or anything light can't get through), over the lid and cut X's where the holes for the pots are?

Also at OP, are you letting your water sit out for several days before using and/or making sure that once you lower the pH, that it does not rise afterwards?

Just looking at the plants, I would have to guess pH problem, in case that hasn't already been ~determined. I had this problem for months before realizing my res pH would not stop rising for over a week using my tap water.

If I water a plant with 5.5pH water but that same water is at 7.0pH the next day, what is the pH of the water the plant is up-taking? (of course there is also the medium's effect on pH in some of our cases).
 
#97
PK1 said:
light penetrates through the yellow lids and also through the net pot that is empty so no wonder that algae has started again. Now you gotta do the whole thing again and bleach, rub it with h2o2 and than tap water everything down few times. Sterlite equipment is a must.
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hes not entirely empty hes got about 3 inches of hydroton at the bottom, but definitely see your point
 
#98
tait said:
hes not entirely empty hes got about 3 inches of hydroton at the bottom, but definitely see your point
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still light hits it through the opening areas and through the yellow lid. At this stage of the plants lifes, the leaves aren't big enough to cover the lid.
 
#99
TryingToGrow said:
I agree. At OP cant you put black (or anything light can't get through), plastic over the lid and cut X's where the holes for the pots are?

Also at OP, are you letting your water sit out for several days before using and/or making sure that once you lower the pH, that it does not rise afterwards?
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currently im just worried what i can paint it with that wont harm the plant, and will also be quick and easy as this is their only holding space
I let my water sit for 12-24 hours before dosing my pH, however lately my pH has seemed much more stable, raising short term but on an overall graph it’s actually lowering
 
#100
PK1 said:
still light hits it through the opening areas and through the yellow lid. At this stage of the plants lifes, the leaves aren't big enough to cover the lid.
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have any good ideas on the type of paint to buy?
 
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