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Leaves are cupping! Overwatering or pH?

  • Thread starter Thread starter GroLex
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Leaves are cupping! Overwatering or pH?

GroLex 38 Replies 13,226 Views
Page 2 of 2 · Replies 21–39 of 39
#23
GroLex said:
Haha awesome 👍. I'll add that to list of fixes. I'm running one of those oscillating tower fans so I'll prop that thing up on a milk crate or some shit.
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I'm not sure it'll be the same in your situation but my leaves definitely were rolled in just like your pics, may be worth giving it a try, I think it was only a few hours before I could see them improving
 
#24
trustyagut said:
I'm not sure it'll be the same in your situation but my leaves definitely were rolled in just like your pics, may be worth giving it a try, I think it was only a few hours before I could see them improving
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Won't hurt to try it. Between overwatering, underfertilizing and bad pH I've got my work cut out. If it looks better in a week I'd be happy with it. Cheers man, enjoy the weekend!
 
#25
Update on my leaf cupping issues:

Potential cause / Fix (or non-issue)

High humidity / Lowered to 60% MAX
Heat stress / MAX temp is 26c
Light stress / Lamps raised to 36" above
Light stress / Lamp intensity 50%
Overwatering / Let bags dry for 3 days
Underfertilizing / PPM 400 to 580
Wind burn / Decreased fan speeds/raised
pH out of range / pH is now 5.9-6.1

I think that covers everything that came up in the thread...I gave them a drink this morning and these were the results:

2-3L (into 5 gallon containers)

KC1 In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 513 PPM/5.9 pH (22c) (-67 PPM) ✅

KC2 In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 432 PPM/6.0 pH (20c) (-148 PPM) ✅

GS In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 530 PPM/6.1 pH (21c) (-50 PPM) ✅

ELB In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 516 PPM/5.9 pH (21c) (-64 PPM) ✅

• 2-3L produced 300ml of runoff

There are still cupped leaves so I'm curious to see if the issue was underfertilizing. They're obviously feeding by the runoff values. Will check back in a few days. If anyone has something to add or sees something I don't, let a growmie know!
PXL 20230725 110243822
PXL 20230725 110249466
PXL 20230725 110329643
 
#26
GroLex said:
Update on my leaf cupping issues:

Potential cause / Fix (or non-issue)

High humidity / Lowered to 60% MAX
Heat stress / MAX temp is 26c
Light stress / Lamps raised to 36" above
Light stress / Lamp intensity 50%
Overwatering / Let bags dry for 3 days
Underfertilizing / PPM 400 to 580
Wind burn / Decreased fan speeds/raised
pH out of range / pH is now 5.9-6.1

I think that covers everything that came up in the thread...I gave them a drink this morning and these were the results:

2-3L (into 5 gallon containers)

KC1 In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 513 PPM/5.9 pH (22c) (-67 PPM) ✅

KC2 In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 432 PPM/6.0 pH (20c) (-148 PPM) ✅

GS In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 530 PPM/6.1 pH (21c) (-50 PPM) ✅

ELB In: 580 PPM/5.9 pH
Out: 516 PPM/5.9 pH (21c) (-64 PPM) ✅

• 2-3L produced 300ml of runoff

There are still cupped leaves so I'm curious to see if the issue was underfertilizing. They're obviously feeding by the runoff values. Will check back in a few days. If anyone has something to add or sees something I don't, let a growmie know!View attachment 2013397View attachment 2013398View attachment 2013399
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My bet was the fan. But possibly they do it for many reasons.
 
#27
Just an update on the leaf cupping issue. I've got it sorted out now. Thanks to everyone for their input.
PXL 20230817 121328442MP
Number of issues, but one thing I didn't think of was temperature. Leaves were cold to the touch so I boosted overall temperatures from 25 to 28c for lights on, 20 to 24c for lights off. Humidity 55-65%. VPD was way out of range. Plants look happy, going to give them another week of Veg and flip to 12/12.
 
#28
Coco needs to moist and never Dry, that doesn't mean keep watering, it needs to dry back to pull in oxygen by capillary action - she is oxygen starved when you continue to water. Your treating her as if her coco-media was built for Hi-Frequency Fertigation, it is not. By putting large perlite at the bottom only raises the "water table" upward to the middle of the pot.(research water table). You'd be better off next run mixing tour coco perlite through-out for better oxygen.
 
#29
Hmm I've created a "perched water table"... interesting. First time I've done this, and it was on purpose. I've always just mixed the whole container on previous grows. I probably won't do this next time as it looks like there's more area with the correct moisture level without the bottom layer in the pot...this was more of an experiment than anything, not my regular method. They've been getting fed every other day now on top of the temperature adjustment I made and the leaf cupping cleared up. New growth is poppin and they look happy.
Screenshot 20230817 121046
I have the same strains cloning right now so I'll use my old method and see of there's a difference. Wondering why this is ETHOS "preferred substrate mixture" 🤔
Screenshot 20230528 115313
 
#30
Your Plants look fine by the way - It boils down to whatever works, right?, many ways to get the job done - I'm also in Coco 55/45 #4 Perlite(literally I take a gal can measure 4.5 scoops Perlite/5.5 scoops Coco) ! My Media is built for Hi-Freq Fertigation's, a lot of Oxygen, Plants grow like Crazy! It works for me. "Colin" Ethos has his preferred method, I suppose it works for Him. Keep Rockin!
 
#31
Thanks, I know I didn't add enough perlite for a 5g...definitely should've been closer to 50/50. I'm guessing it would probably take 3-4 days to fully dry out (which I only do after flushing week 2/5 of bloom). They're drinking more now that I've raised temperatures so I'm probably looking at daily watering soon. Plan is to get my EC up from 1.5 to 1.8-2.0 next week and trigger bloom. Thanks for dropping by!
 
#32
Choppr said:
Coco needs to moist and never Dry, that doesn't mean keep watering, it needs to dry back to pull in oxygen by capillary action - she is oxygen starved when you continue to water. Your treating her as if her coco-media was built for Hi-Frequency Fertigation, it is not. By putting large perlite at the bottom only raises the "water table" upward to the middle of the pot.(research water table). You'd be better off next run mixing tour coco perlite through-out for better oxygen.
Click to expand...
GroLex said:
Thanks, I know I didn't add enough perlite for a 5g...definitely should've been closer to 50/50. I'm guessing it would probably take 3-4 days to fully dry out (which I only do after flushing week 2/5 of bloom). They're drinking more now that I've raised temperatures so I'm probably looking at daily watering soon. Plan is to get my EC up from 1.5 to 1.8-2.0 next week and trigger bloom. Thanks for dropping by!
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did you do any transplanting or did you start in final containers ?
 
#33
Rooted and vegged 2 weeks in solo cups, then into final containers 4x 5 gallon 2x 3 gallon... I usually transplant to 1 gallons, then finals. Trying a bunch of new shit this time so having a few issues is inevitable hah
 
#34
ok just checking because it is a good practice especially aiming for a 5 gallon pot.
definitely agree with the higher perlite ratios too if you wanna have more feeding cycles.
EC is high for my taste but see how ya go. get through a run without burning the plants and you advance to the next level 🤟👽🤟
 
#35
Yeah EC is higher than usual at this stage. I'd probably be around 1.0-1.2 typically...it worries me a bit too, but I'm told that you can really hammer them when your VPD is dialed and so far there's no burnt tips or curling. I have cuttings from all 6 so if it doesn't work I'll back off next time. This is a good chunk of my lights on time...VPD 0.99-1.15✅
Screenshot 20230817 144231
 
#36
yeah you can push them if its dialled in. I monitor my run off EC closely because drain to waste in coco, the EC of the runoff tells you exactly how shits doin. You want to keep the EC in as close as possible to the EC out or trouble is coming 🥲
 
#37
Exactly. Coco is a trip man...so many nuances but definitely a fantastic substrate. My runoff is always either the same as what I put in, or really fkn close...like +0.1-0.2 at most. If it's more than 0.3 from base, I'll dump another liter in and the next runoff that comes out is the same as the inflow. Still getting the hang of this shit
 
#38
bullfrog13 said:
yeah you can push them if its dialled in. I monitor my run off EC closely because drain to waste in coco, the EC of the runoff tells you exactly how shits doin. You want to keep the EC in as close as possible to the EC out or trouble is coming 🥲
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GroLex said:
Exactly. Coco is a trip man...so many nuances but definitely a fantastic substrate. My runoff is always either the same as what I put in, or really fkn close...like +0.1-0.2 at most. If it's more than 0.3 from base, I'll dump another liter in and the next runoff that comes out is the same as the inflow. Still getting the hang of this shit
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yes - total control! Dialing-In -lol, I've been with MegaCrop since 2017, and now using their 2 Part formula since 2019, their website "Mix Calculator" was/is much value to me, It shows the breakdown of each element (in elemental ppms), after thousands of mixes, seeing in broken down that way, I know exactly what I want at different stages, It trains you to look at the individual elements to Dial-In, I found this a very valuable tool when switching to MC, pictured is an old mix, It looks like maybe a wk 2 flower mix? But You can follow what I mean, I can just look at say "total Nitrogen", and raise or lower that element etc, like wk 5f they're heaviest feed week they're gonna want 249ppm of Phosphorus, etc etc. (control freak) keep rockin!
 

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#39
THIS. I'm definitely a visual learner and I need something like this for sure. In my head I know that, say, plants in bloom need less nitrogen and more P/K.. but I'm only guessing at the NER...I'll use like, half of part A or some sht. Yeah, this table rips dude. MOAAR CONTROLLL!!!
 
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