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"Pre-Mixing" GH Flora Series for Convenience?

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"Pre-Mixing" GH Flora Series for Convenience?

Greg_Midi 33 Replies 2,749 Views
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Greg_Midi

Greg_Midi

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#1
So I find that I'm mixing up a gallon of the late bloom every couple of days now, a little tedious. I'm wondering if anyone has tried doing a pre-mix where you squirt the correct amounts of grow, micro and bloom together into a container and then later just pour it into a gallon of water?
 
#2
Greg_Midi said:
So I find that I'm mixing up a gallon of the late bloom every couple of days now, a little tedious. I'm wondering if anyone has tried doing a pre-mix where you squirt the correct amounts of grow, micro and bloom together into a container and then later just pour it into a gallon of water?
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Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, premixing can cause chemical reactions between the nutes that can lock up certain nutes making them unavailable to the plant. You’d be better off mixing up 5 gallons (with water) as long as you use it fairly quickly.
 
#3
Phyto said:
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, premixing can cause chemical reactions between the nutes that can lock up certain nutes making them unavailable to the plant. You’d be better off mixing up 5 gallons (with water) as long as you use it fairly quickly.
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@Greg_Midi, no because you might have a reaction. There's also the order that these are supposed to be mixed (micro goes first always). You should be using the feed chart for best results.

Flora Series 3 part feed chart
 
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#4
RoadKillSkunkHunt said:
@Greg_Midi, no because you might have a reaction. There's also the order that these are supposed to be mixed (micro goes first always). You should be using the feed chart for best results.

View attachment 2530294
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Yes I use the feed chart from their website, a separate syringe for each one and RO water into repurposed one gallon jugs. I'll just stay with that for now. Using RO water would become a problem if I went to a larger container because the unit under the sink has limitations. Just things I need to think about, thanks for responding.
 
#5
Previously remember conversation on this being ok to do.

The issue isnt to my understanding a spontaneous precipitation of solids out of the fertilizer but a more gradual one over time when mixed together.

Maybe someone can answer that point better 👍
 
#6
Somewhere GH has a statement, "do not mix nutrients together by themselves" or something to that effect.
I still call BS on Micro needing to go into the feed water 1st. BULLSHIT! 😁
There, I said it.
 
#7
If you mix them together undiluted the calcium in the micro will react with the others and crystalize into calcium phosphate and calcium sulphate. They will then precipitate out of solution and become unavailable to the plant.

You can experiment with making a 4 or 5x concentrated gallon and using that diluted to proper strength so you're only mixing once a month but you will still have to pH correct it when you dilute and at that concentration it may still crystalize anyway.

And you definitely have to add the micro first.
 
#8
Grownsince95 said:
If you mix them together undiluted the calcium in the micro will react with the others and crystalize into calcium phosphate and calcium sulphate. They will then precipitate out of solution and become unavailable to the plant.

You can experiment with making a 4 or 5x concentrated gallon and using that diluted to proper strength so you're only mixing once a month but you will still have to pH correct it when you dilute and at that concentration it may still crystalize anyway.

And you definitely have to add the micro first.
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But it won't happen straight away otherwise we would notice a distinct amount of precipitates upon first mixing which I don't think happens.
 
#9
Greg_Midi said:
Yes I use the feed chart from their website, a separate syringe for each one and RO water into repurposed one gallon jugs. I'll just stay with that for now. Using RO water would become a problem if I went to a larger container because the unit under the sink has limitations. Just things I need to think about, thanks for responding.
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If keeping up with the RO becomes a problem, you can use 1 gallon of RO water and 1 gallon of tap water. Half RO and half tap water is usually low enough in suspended solids to make things work just fine.
 
#10
KG1 said:
But it won't happen straight away otherwise we would notice a distinct amount of precipitates upon first mixing which I don't think happens.
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It might take a while to see solids on the bottom of the container because they remain in suspension for a while. If you were to use a vacuum filter, you would see the precipitate right away on the filter paper. The bigger thing is if your nutrients precipitate, it becomes unavailable to your plants.
 
#11
RoadKillSkunkHunt said:
It might take a while to see solids on the bottom of the container because they remain in suspension for a while. If you were to use a vacuum filter, you would see the precipitate right away on the filter paper. The bigger thing is if your nutrients precipitate, it becomes unavailable to your plants.
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Most salts in a multi element solution will simply redissolve continuously and an excess past our ratios would be needed to lock up any particular nutrient.

Throw in a load of calcium nitrate and yes expect heavy precipitates but at our levels not much.

But you wouldn't need a vacuum filter to see that it should be somewhat visible.

The chemistry seems far too complex I would assume if the mix didn't release a heavy amount of solids very quickly it would be reasonably stable enough to hold for say a week or more.

None of this is advisable Im just looking at the chemistry and don't see an immediate problem unless your in hydro and want to clog lines quicker.
 
#12
KG1 said:
Most salts in a multi element solution will simply redissolve continuously and an excess past our ratios would be needed to lock up any particular nutrient.

Throw in a load of calcium nitrate and yes expect heavy precipitates but at our levels not much.

But you wouldn't need a vacuum filter to see that it should be somewhat visible.

The chemistry seems far too complex I would assume if the mix didn't release a heavy amount of solids very quickly it would be reasonably stable enough to hold for say a week or more.

None of this is advisable Im just looking at the chemistry and don't see an immediate problem unless your in hydro and want to clog lines quicker.
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I don't usually keep nutrient solution around that long anyway. I mix it and use it within 24 hrs when I am top watering.

Yes, you probably could see some sign of the suspended solids if you were to look. It's there if you mix it wrong. If this didn't matter, GH would not have put the order of nutrients as part of the directions for its use. Keep in mind that GH designed it to run as a hydroponic nutrient program. When there's a precipitate, those elements are locked out from the plant. That would alter the effectiveness of the feed program. Even if "best practices" only nudge the scale slightly in our favor, its still best practice. GH Flora series was designed to keep small emitters from plugging. Solids would be a problem in many hydroponics systems. I use it in my soil grows because its an effective program that doesn't cost and arm and a leg.

P.S. Its been over 40 yrs since I took a college level chemistry class. Forgive me for how much I have forgotten. lol.
 
#13
The key issue is that the precipitate is chemically distinct from the original solution and contains a specific, unbalanced ratio of nutrients.
When you precipitate calcium phosphate, you remove a significant amount of calcium (Ca) and phosphorus (P) from the total solution.
If you cannot get the precipitate to dissolve completely and uniformly, your final nutrient solution will be deficient in the nutrients that formed the precipitate, even if the total amount of product added was correct.

From Gemini:
"Calcium phosphate is often described as practically insoluble in the \text{pH} range of 5.5 - 6.5 that is used in hydroponics. At 72^{\circ}\text{F}, it would likely require lowering the \text{pH} to an acidic level (perhaps below 5.0) to get it to dissolve quickly. If you leave it at a typical 6.0 \text{pH}, it could take days, if not weeks, to dissolve, and you would still likely have a permanent residue."
 
#14
I came up with a bit of a compromise I'm going to try. I'm using a 1.5L container to make a premix, like a concentrate. That way I only need to pull out the syringes and all every other time. I dunno, we'll see!

IMG 7746
 
#15
Greg_Midi said:
I came up with a bit of a compromise I'm going to try. I'm using a 1.5L container to make a premix, like a concentrate. That way I only need to pull out the syringes and all every other time. I dunno, we'll see!

View attachment 2532109
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Why? Your feed ratios change regularly and I think you'll end up with either waste or you won't be following the feed chart. It might take an extra moment to mix up your nutrients prior to feeding them but it is what I would do. To me, you're trying to simplify something that is already simple enough. I hope it all works out.
 
#16
RoadKillSkunkHunt said:
I don't usually keep nutrient solution around that long anyway. I mix it and use it within 24 hrs when I am top watering.

Yes, you probably could see some sign of the suspended solids if you were to look. It's there if you mix it wrong. If this didn't matter, GH would not have put the order of nutrients as part of the directions for its use. Keep in mind that GH designed it to run as a hydroponic nutrient program. When there's a precipitate, those elements are locked out from the plant. That would alter the effectiveness of the feed program. Even if "best practices" only nudge the scale slightly in our favor, its still best practice. GH Flora series was designed to keep small emitters from plugging. Solids would be a problem in many hydroponics systems. I use it in my soil grows because its an effective program that doesn't cost and arm and a leg.

P.S. Its been over 40 yrs since I took a college level chemistry class. Forgive me for how much I have forgotten. lol.
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Precipitated solids should form very quickly and be seen at surface GH says.

Could we not mix two of the three flora parts or do all combinations still lead to solid formations?

Ultimately when we start this hobby we're super enthusiastic and will do anything from twelve hours of trimming to staring at a plant grow for three days straight but after a while we turn into the laziest beasts even to the point unzipping the tent door is a chore.
 
#17
RoadKillSkunkHunt said:
Why? Your feed ratios change regularly and I think you'll end up with either waste or you won't be following the feed chart. It might take an extra moment to mix up your nutrients prior to feeding them but it is what I would do. To me, you're trying to simplify something that is already simple enough. I hope it all works out.
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At this point in time mine are all late bloom so they get the same until sometime in October. All I'm really doing is making it so that I only need to get the syringes and nutes out every other time. I seem to be going through a gallon of it every other day or so, it won't sitting around long.
 
#18
A gallon every other day, of fertilizer!? For a thousand plants 😆
 
#20
Greg_Midi said:
At this point in time mine are all late bloom so they get the same until sometime in October. All I'm really doing is making it so that I only need to get the syringes and nutes out every other time. I seem to be going through a gallon of it every other day or so, it won't sitting around long.
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Ok, that's a bit different than what I thought. If it's the same for a while, you should be fine. Just don't mix up so much that you have a bunch of waste.
 
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